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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 5:26:28 AM

crazyml

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

The Yoruba way of the Orisha teaches that each religion has a piece of the Truth and only by global unity will all the Truth be known. I happen to like this particular way of thinking.

I'd not heard of Orisha before you posted - thanks for mentioning it (now off to do some research!)

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 5:31:56 AM

CarrieO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

How is or can BDSM-D/s be a path to spirituality?

D/s, no....BDSM, yes. BDSM has been just one of many tools I've used to explore deeply spiritual personal moments.

What can BDSM-D/s teach us about the spirit?

That depends on how you define spirit. BDSM activities, for me, have been one of the many ways I've expanded my consciousness which, again for me, have allowed me to become more in tune with my spirit and the spirit within everything around me.

Do you feel more spiritual because of your BDSM-D/s experiences?

I feel fortunate for having the experiences. They don't make me more or less spiritual since, like I've said, they've been just one tool...one step on my path.

Do you feel less spiritual (more animalistic) because of your BDSM-D/s experiences?

This question is confusing. My spiritual experiences have allowed me to tap into my animalistic side so I'm not really sure how to answer this question but I'll giv it a try. It has been my experience that many BDSM activities where I recieve pain affect me the same as estatic dance/movement or drumming by tapping into the primitive (or animalistic) part of my psyche. I guess I feel both spiritual enlightenment and animalistic equally.

I know I feel more creative after such an experiences and do some of my best artistic work then.

< Message edited by CarrieO -- 3/2/2010 5:35:02 AM >

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 5:34:46 AM

lally2

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spirituality to me, as a pagan, is about letting go, releasing the mind, ignoring my little voice, going with the flow of feelings, trusting my intuition and becoming absorbed by the moment. all of that has helped me to trust myself and my instincts and it has helped me to find an inner, unquestioning resource. in lots of ways all of that has helped me to transition into submission more comfortably.

i dont hit some spiritual high however or feel any closer to my spiritual self through submission -

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 5:35:26 AM

Drifa

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OP, I think you have the question backwards. My spirituality imbues every portion of my life, not just some hour or two I sit in church. As a result, I bring that spirituality to my sex life as well. How I see my partner, how I understand myself, these are toed intricately into my own spirituality.

There are some religions that use sexuality as a path to spirituality as well. From what I have seen, they're all about orgasm delay or denial, however. If you are concentrating on achieving that convoluted posture, then meditating within it, you are not going to "O". Of course, orgasm denial IS a part of some people's BDSM experience...

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 6:45:52 AM

domiguy

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Bdsm is not the path to any kind of enlightenment. If it were then it would be impossible to account for the large number of douchebags and spiritually bankrupt fucks that frequent this here thang.

Bdsm is to enlightenment as crystal meth is to the cornerstone of a healthy diet.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 3/2/2010 6:46:26 AM >

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 6:52:53 AM

bliss4us09

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Most of - perhaps ALL of - the great spiritual traditions include branches that recognize the suppression of self (which is essential for both Dom and sub) as the path to higher consciousness. So the lifestyle can be well within the traditions of spirituality. And it can also be just a self-indulgence if that's all one wants. Depends on what you're seeking.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 7:04:56 AM

Jeffff

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Here we go again.

I am special because I beat women.........

Why can't it just be part of who we are. Is a "Master" more spiritually enlightened than a "Dom"
A "slave" more than a "sub"

People are crazy!

Jeff

Edited because June, mocked My typing

< Message edited by Jeffff -- 3/2/2010 7:29:06 AM >

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 7:14:55 AM

LaTigresse

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Salves are very spiritually enlightened, especially burn salves.

As for the OP, I agree with Drifa. It's backwards. BDSM does not lead me to any sort of spiritual enlightenment at all.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 8:00:29 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Salves are very spiritually enlightened, especially burn salves.

As for the OP, I agree with Drifa. It's backwards. BDSM does not lead me to any sort of spiritual enlightenment at all.

Don't all our relationships lead to enlightenment? I speak of myself mostly...

There have been spiritual lessons for me in all my relationships with others... D/s has a different lesson to teach me than the other relationships I have been in... Not less to teach me, not more to teach me, but something different to teach me. And I speak of all my relationships.. platonic, familial, etc etc

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 8:25:20 AM

UniqueRaven

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i tend to see submission as an action, not a state of being or a form of consciousness in and of itself.

And as an action, yes, submission does facilitate my spiritual side, and my exploration of my "self" - as does yoga, and meditation.

Submission is part of my life's journey. i own my submission as well as my own mind-space and the thoughts that happen there. i am responsible for both, and the actions that i take as a result.

So i could see my submission as "spiritual." But i don't. i see it as an action - just like many other actions that i perform - that connects me to the divine in the universe.

p.s. i started a thread a couple of months ago where i posted my thoughts in more detail, if you're interested - "Functional vs. Spiritual D/s" http://www.collarchat.com/m_2997486/tm.htm

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 8:25:40 AM

allthatjaz

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I think submission especially is very significant here.
Take ‘Johari Window’ and self-disclosure.
Its all about reducing the hidden areas and increasing the open areas. Isn't that what we do within this lifestyle?
Any psychologist will tell you that if you can learn how to do that then you will have better understanding of yourself and the more understanding you have the more ability you will have of enjoying your life.
In this lifestyle we open ourselves up more, especially about sexuality. That makes some people vulnerable but for others it liberates them not only within the scene but in all walks of life.
Perhaps this isn't spritual or perhaps its a dormant inner spirit now liberated.
I can't get all romantic about it but I know my life has certainly changed significantly since embracing this lifestyle. Its changed my attitude, my energy, my interactions with people and my understanding of life. I am more confident, less insulting, less confrontational and bull headed about things.

I don't see my submission or dominance as a spiritual act but I do see it as a gateway to seeing life with different vision.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 3/2/2010 8:30:00 AM >

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 9:11:20 AM

Dragonfurguy

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I'm Pagan, and I believe living a B/D, S&M lifestyle fits in very well with it. I would never say all, but I believe a larger than average amount of Pagans happen to have some interest in the lifestyle. I believe it may be in part that most Pagans follow the "Do what you want to be happy, don't hurt or judge anyone else for doing what is right for them..." There isn't the degree of negativity that is experienced with some other religions, who treat sex and all things associated with it as a bad thing. I too follow the ordeal path in my spirituality. Some of the most amazing connections I have ever had with my Supreme being was during lifestyle related ritual. The MOST amazing thing I have ever experienced was my 4 hook body suspension, facilitated by another Pagan in the lifestyle, as well as my Dom/Husband. The connections I made with my creator during THAT ride defy my ability to put into words... So I would go into the YES category as far as if lifestyle has connections with spirituality.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 10:21:55 AM

Lorenzo19

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I should have put the following in the OP. I'm bolding it to call attention.

Many BIG religions depict human sexuality as the road to hell, only for baby making, or at best, a necessary evil. Kama Sutra cannot be more opposite by saying sexuality can be a path to spirituality. Unfortunately Kama Sutra is not well known and as far as I know doesnt cover BDSM and the closely associated D/s.

I think BIG RELIGION is wrong and the guilt trip they lay on people causes mental illness. I started this thread in the hopes of debunking the lie. I am hoping some people will find new understanding of thier BDSM-D/s sexuality as an asset rather than a hinderance.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 10:34:36 AM

mnottertail

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I've always liked to get my blowjobs, jesus, god, allah or ganesh notwithstanding. I could give a shit what they think.

Ron

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 11:34:13 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I think submission especially is very significant here.
Take ‘Johari Window’ and self-disclosure.
Its all about reducing the hidden areas and increasing the open areas. Isn't that what we do within this lifestyle?
Any psychologist will tell you that if you can learn how to do that then you will have better understanding of yourself and the more understanding you have the more ability you will have of enjoying your life.
In this lifestyle we open ourselves up more, especially about sexuality. That makes some people vulnerable but for others it liberates them not only within the scene but in all walks of life.
Perhaps this isn't spritual or perhaps its a dormant inner spirit now liberated.
I can't get all romantic about it but I know my life has certainly changed significantly since embracing this lifestyle. Its changed my attitude, my energy, my interactions with people and my understanding of life. I am more confident, less insulting, less confrontational and bull headed about things.

I don't see my submission or dominance as a spiritual act but I do see it as a gateway to seeing life with different vision.

If one looks at submission as an act of humility, and submission to their conception of "god" as a sacred act... isn't submission and service in general a sacred act for some?

Think about the story of the woman who cleaned the feet of Jesus with her tears and hair... and he turned around and gave that service to those whom served him...

Service and humility can be very spiritual acts and they have not much to do with sex, but not everything in BDSM is about sex.. at least that is what we keep hearing...

My masochism also has spiritual elements to it... anyone that has endured pain for their concept of the sacred could tell you pain endured can lead to a sort of spiritual enlightenment... just like taking peyote or mushrooms can help someone on a vision quest.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 11:40:13 AM

Bodhisatva

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I rely on my Judaism for spiritual enlightenment. I don't consider the lifestyle to be that path.

It's odd because they're two separate codes of living. But they don't conflict, so I simply follow both.

Really? You find no conflict between the ethics of judiasm and the way one must act in this lifestyle?

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 11:42:28 AM

Bodhisatva

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

I should have put the following in the OP. I'm bolding it to call attention.

Many BIG religions depict human sexuality as the road to hell, only for baby making, or at best, a necessary evil.

No, most of the BIG religions as you put it don't have a hell in them.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 11:55:57 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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~Fast Reply~

quote:

How is or can BDSM-D/s be a path to spirituality?

I think it -can- be, if you enter into BDSM with an inclination to explore it from a spiritual level. I think, though, that it can just as easily be a purely physical, purely emotional, or purely intellectual experience, or any combination of those, and not have it affect either the practice or the integrity of the BDSM or authority-exchange process.

quote:

What can BDSM-D/s teach us about the spirit?

Again, this depends on what one is seeking to -learn- about the spirit -- and it is important to note that, regardless of the application, something like this would be a purely -individual- learning experience. Even the person on the other end of the crop may not share the spiritual development that one person might obtain from participation -- and not learning anything about one's spirit due to participation does not negate any other value obtained from the experiences.

quote:

Do you feel more spiritual because of your BDSM-D/s experiences?

It is in my nature to feel more spiritual because of -anything- I experience, whether it is participation in a BDSM activity or gaining/losing a job. That's just my nature. I am non-theistic, but have a questing spirit -- so the part of me that considers spirituality -reaches- for spiritual progress and meaning in what I do. For someone else, that may not be the case, so it is not possible to universally apply even the experiences of those who become -transcendent- during BDSM or authority-exchange, as that is a purely personal response to the stimuli of the activity.

quote:

Do you feel less spiritual (more animalistic) because of your BDSM-D/s experiences?

Again, for me, it is not in the least bit dichotomous for me to feel BOTH more spiritual AND more connected with my visceral nature through the same activity, so I am going to have to say that, for me, yes, I do feel more viscerally connected through BDSM -- but as noted above, I also feel more spiritual... The idea that this is an "either/or" proposition, or that we would, somehow, have to sacrifice one aspect of our nature to increase another is a fundamentally flawed proposition, in my mind.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 3/2/2010 11:56:15 AM >

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 1:03:34 PM

Nslavu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

I believe everyone has thier own path to spirituality. The Kama Sutra expouses how sexuality can be that path. BDSM-D/s has upped the ante in sexuality. Maybe it is time for Kama Sutra 2nd Edition.

The question is:

How is or can BDSM-D/s be a path to spirituality?

An adjunct to , as anything else could be. Hell, being a beggar is a path. I think most of your questions are reversed in origin of spirit; but thats how we humans tend to think. It's spirit first, then path and I think it is a path of spirituality... not a path to. However, there's a James R Lowell quote- "The wise man travels to discover himself." This is the spirit's original intent I think. However; as humans tend to fall more into the path by mistake, which I tend to convey with "The dummy discovers himself travelling." We're already on the spirit's path. It becomes a matter of how aware we are of that, whether we choose D/s or vanilla or any other life experience is inconsequential.

quote:

What can BDSM-D/s teach us about the spirit?

In awareness all things are known, so teach/learn is more profoundly yet plainly, experience. I doubt very much I can teach my spirit anything; but my thinking brain sometimes tends to think it's in control and running the universe. =) That I am even here is more in my spirit's control than my thinking mind likes to admit. The very fact that I spend time consulting my higher self lends credence to my thinking mind's truly insubordinate nature.

quote:

Do you feel more spiritual because of your BDSM-D/s experiences?

No. I feel more spirit because I indulge awareness. D/s is within this state of awareness.

quote:

Do you feel less spiritual (more animalistic) because of your BDSM-D/s experiences?

The very nature of D/s is polar. A far cry from the neutrality of spiritual awareness. Polar charge is the e-motion (energy-motion) of life. I don't see this as more or less animalistic or spiritual, but part of the path of experience. That we label things as animalistic is a fact of labeling not a fact of truth. It does however show some deeper or more enriched aspects that might not otherwise be experienced in life. I think there is antithesis going on here that one chooses to indulge. There is also a difference when these things (polar attributes) are experienced consensually. A good question would be is the 'animalistic one' aware. It is only the spirit's cognition (awareness) of the animal behavior that holds any sway at all. We can not be less spiritual, just less aware. Being more or less animalistic is relevant to experience, which is the spirit's path.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/2/2010 1:30:13 PM

wisdomtogive

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Interesting topic. BDSM may be used as a path to one's spiritual enlightenment. So can going out in the streets and feeding the poor, clothing the poor, and comforting the poor. Yet, we can do the same to the rich, and become just as englighted. Anything that bordens one's view of life is good for enlightment imho. It has nothing to do with religion or for that matter spirituality. If you are living life, then you will be enlighted throughout it. Now please excuse me, I do have wood to chop you know, and water to carry.

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