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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/5/2010 7:00:20 PM   
Lorenzo19


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Joined: 2/8/2010
Status: offline 		Agreed, attachments can block ones spiritual development. It sounds like youre saying having sex is bad cause youre attached to it.

Being detached from a thing doesnt mean the thing must be given up. I can own and practice whatever without being attached to it.

< Message edited by Lorenzo19 -- 3/5/2010 7:02:43 PM >

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/5/2010 7:12:17 PM   
Shekicromaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

Agreed, attachments can block ones spiritual development. It sounds like youre saying having sex is bad cause youre attached to it.

Being detached from a thing doesnt mean the thing must be given up. I can own and practice whatever without being attached to it.

is it? Than why are you doing it? Or are we like alcoholics convinced that they can stop any time - but somehow they never do?

Of course in sex besides attachment to sense gratification there is from the perspective of yoga at least the physical issue of "wasting energy (and disturbing the mind and shaking the nervous system...)" - again I'm not going into the reality of this statement

It can in some extent be controlled by varjoli mudra, however it is not the same (tried both). It can be compared to a food supplement like vitamins.. what is there allways on them? Something like: supplements are no substitution for a balanced diet (don't know what is there exactly in English versions, just making a supposition).   It helps, but is not exactly the same and besides this yogic/tantric practicies are better not to be done without expert supervision that one is not likeli to find.

< Message edited by Shekicromaster -- 3/5/2010 7:15:00 PM >

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/5/2010 7:18:47 PM   
Lorenzo19


Posts: 237
Joined: 2/8/2010
Status: offline 		so youre saying everyone who has sex is addicted to it?

_____________________________

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Everything I needed to know about life I learned by killing smart people and eating thier brains.
Give Me your heart. Make it real. Or else forget about it.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/5/2010 7:29:17 PM   
Shekicromaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

so youre saying everyone who has sex is addicted to it?


can you be celibate and not disturbed by that the least, not even in the mind? Most of us will after a few weeks, especially when younger, be rather interested in doing something about it.

So it is usually beyond simple rational decision, it a deeper urge therefore yes, it is an addiction. The most widespread addiction besides food :D

< Message edited by Shekicromaster -- 3/5/2010 7:30:12 PM >

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/6/2010 1:03:41 AM   
aldompdx


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Status: offline 		By the above definition, every person is addicted to personage -- i.e., living. Likewise, addicted to air, water, food which proximately derives from earth, and energy measured by potential heat as calories. Thus, addiction can be found in almost everything which renders the distinction meaningless.

In reality, we are compelled to breathe, eat, drink, and stay warm. We are not addicted.

DSM-IV TR Substance dependence:
When an individual persists in use of alcohol or other drugs despite problems related to use of the substance, substance dependence may be diagnosed. Compulsive and repetitive use may result in tolerance to the effect of the drug and withdrawal symptoms when use is reduced or stopped. This, along with Substance Abuse are considered Substance Use Disorders....

The medical community now makes a careful theoretical distinction between physical dependence (characterized by symptoms of withdrawal) and psychological dependence (or simply addiction). Addiction is now narrowly defined as "uncontrolled, compulsive use"; if there is no harm being suffered by, or damage done to, the patient or another party, then clinically it may be considered compulsive, but to the definition of some it is not categorized as 'addiction'.

The actual answer to the original question posed may appear reflected in the above non-answers, which deflect to the physical world rather than directly addressing the perception and experience of the spirit.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/6/2010 1:21:24 AM   
Ialdabaoth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

By the above definition, every person is addicted to personage -- i.e., living. Likewise, addicted to air, water, food which proximately derives from earth, and energy measured by potential heat as calories. Thus, addiction can be found in almost everything which renders the distinction meaningless.


To be honest, I think there's value in that definition - at a certain point, the distinction between what we call "normal, healthy behavior" and what we call "addiction" winds up looking very arbitrary, subjective, and culturally-laden.

It's far more likely that there's a multi-dimensional spectrum of behavior, that some points on that spectrum are labeled "good" and others are labeled "bad", and if you don't share the same labeling-mechanisms as others, you're likely to be confused by the labels they choose.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/6/2010 1:25:25 AM   
came4U


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From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		I didn't read all replies, sowwwy, I was busy today, and it is kinda ooo very late lol. Wish I had seen this thread earlier this morn.

but, I read the OP.

and a couple of posts to get the gist.

So, IMO, you can be enlightened by BDSM (or any other, of a sexual/physical) encounter via the pineal gland and it's activation. Akin to Tantra..hmm hard to explain. But, the same enlightenment (well, it is NEVER officially the same with one as with another) can occur but with different enlightenment results.

I had a more (than another) enlightening (quickening) experience in a vanilla situation than with a bdsm one. (That must be because of the partner and our ability to only communicate on a higher level with one and not some other). I am still trying to figure out if it was the duality (and equality) we had or if it was mere random because of some karmatic events. The bdsm event, was a different type of enlightenment/OBE sort of revelation., which is harder to describe because of the more physical events.

I tell ya though, once the pineal gland is enacted, it is a WOW and you momentarily have the secrets to the universe..till it is over/passed . Unfortunately, there is very little that you recall about the even---except for WOW.

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/6/2010 1:27:09 AM >

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/6/2010 2:45:15 AM   
ResidentSadist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Here we go again.

I am special because I beat women.........

Why can't it just be part of who we are. Is a "Master" more spiritually enlightened than a "Dom"
A  "slave" more than a "sub"

People are crazy!

Jeff


Edited because June, mocked My typing

oh   oh   oh   . . .   I know the answer but first you have to tell me, is that a Buddhist Master or a Christian Master?


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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/6/2010 3:18:30 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

I believe everyone has thier own path to spirituality. The Kama Sutra expouses how sexuality can be that path. BDSM-D/s has upped the ante in sexuality. Maybe it is time for Kama Sutra 2nd Edition.

The question is:

How is or can BDSM-D/s be a path to spirituality?
What can BDSM-D/s teach us about the spirit?
Do you feel more spiritual because of your BDSM-D/s experiences?
Do you feel less spiritual (more animalistic) because of your BDSM-D/s experiences?


I will give My view points later. I dont want this thread to start out as a debate of My opinions.



Well......

The spirit? What is it? The essential nature of a person? Does it actually exist? Anyone seen it? Not been flippant but it's a concept akin to the soul in the sense both are linked to an enduring self. When you look at your development through the years do you see an enduring self or a bundle of changing perceptions and ideas? I mean there are threads on here about books - and posters have claimed that reading one particular book has changed their entire mindset (hardly conducive to the idea of an enduring self).

There are probably 3 types of people in the world.....

1) Those who are chasing a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. They believe that there is an answer to human existence; that we can understand our place in the world and so control life. They believe in grand ideas. I suppose these people take their lead from the enlightenment and the Renaissnce men who believed that the quest for knowledge would lead to human beings being blessed with the ultimate reality. The experience of the 500 years since the 1500s suggests their core assumption was inaccurate.

2) Those like myself who operate on a sort of cautious optimism basis and are less than enamoured with the grand ideas laid out above. Progess is possible in all forms of life but 'the truth' will always remain elusive because quite frankly it doesn't exist - 'the more you know the less you understand' type of people. You paint your own picture but there isn't going to be any realisation of what it means to be a human being when you've finished your painting - you'll simply move onto the next painting. There are limitations to what human beings can achieve - and the great and the good have been searching for the ultimate reality for a long time and have come up short.

3) Those with an existentialist view of life.

So in the context of BDSM....progress/learning/development.....yes.....realising your essential nature.....no.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/6/2010 6:23:59 AM   
Nslavu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

I tell ya though, once the pineal gland is enacted, it is a WOW and you momentarily have the secrets to the universe..till it is over/passed . Unfortunately, there is very little that you recall about the even---except for WOW.


Like your post but...

Curious, why you don't recall... or is it the 'sense' you can't get back? They are wow moments for sure; but I recall each and every one, the connectivity, the access to truth,, infinity and paradox, etc.

There are a number of ways to access and feed the pineal gland, including drugs (not my way). One of those ways is the use of Vitamin K2 from the natto bean (others aren't as reliable) and then there is use of binarual and or isochronic beat technologies. (the better quality ones of course, meaning- not cheap).

There are a large number of people who mistake 'knowing' for awareness or enlightenment as well, just as an aside, not pointing that at your post or experience. That difference in itself is a very difficult thing to convey to someone who hasn't had an enlightened moment or experienced that spacial shift in perception. It is an experience of time/space rather than the normal space/time we are accustomed to and explaining that could take pages and pages.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/6/2010 11:16:19 AM   
jujubeeMB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19
Do you feel more spiritual because of your BDSM-D/s experiences?


No. I've never been religious, but my spiritual enlightenment-like moments have happened on cliffs overlooking a wild blue sea, not bent over and pleading for release. The only thing that D/s has enlightened me to is some of the darker parts of my mind and the minds of others.


Now that is interesting.  The same thing happens to me, that I reaffirm my belief in G_d through contemplation of the things he has created, and it's always a natural phenomenon. Nor necessarily as majestic as the one jujubee mentioned - just the workings of a plant can do it for me, or how predator and prey each adapt to their situation.


It takes some major majesty to impress an agnostic. We're not really looking for anything godlike, so we only see what might be it when the earth opens up and sings

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/6/2010 12:34:56 PM   
came4U


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From: London, Ontario
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quote:

Like your post but...

Curious, why you don't recall... or is it the 'sense' you can't get back?


I dunno,

once you come down from that 'high', it is like...all you can recall is flashes of it, like those people that are hypnotized to jump around like a monkey but don't remember it lol. Except in this case, the banana was nothing like those that grow on trees

quote:

There are a large number of people who mistake 'knowing' for awareness or enlightenment as well, just as an aside, not pointing that at your post or experience. That difference in itself is a very difficult thing to convey to someone who hasn't had an enlightened moment or experienced that spacial shift in perception. It is an experience of time/space rather than the normal space/time we are accustomed to and explaining that could take pages and pages.


Yes, well, I've never done acid, lsd or anything else that has artificially ripened/enacted my pineal or DMT but if I did, it would be a wild ride. Since I am easily prone to be 'activated' into that mode (some might compare it to subspace but it is more complicated than that), I can activate lightly (but I avoid it), because it is a scary place sometimes. You are right, it does take pages n pages lol and I DO get it.

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/6/2010 12:38:51 PM >

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/6/2010 7:17:37 PM   
Nslavu


Posts: 342
Joined: 2/1/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

quote:

Like your post but...

Curious, why you don't recall... or is it the 'sense' you can't get back?


I dunno,

once you come down from that 'high', it is like...all you can recall is flashes of it, like those people that are hypnotized to jump around like a monkey but don't remember it lol. Except in this case, the banana was nothing like those that grow on trees

quote:

There are a large number of people who mistake 'knowing' for awareness or enlightenment as well, just as an aside, not pointing that at your post or experience. That difference in itself is a very difficult thing to convey to someone who hasn't had an enlightened moment or experienced that spacial shift in perception. It is an experience of time/space rather than the normal space/time we are accustomed to and explaining that could take pages and pages.


Yes, well, I've never done acid, lsd or anything else that has artificially ripened/enacted my pineal or DMT but if I did, it would be a wild ride. Since I am easily prone to be 'activated' into that mode (some might compare it to subspace but it is more complicated than that), I can activate lightly (but I avoid it), because it is a scary place sometimes. You are right, it does take pages n pages lol and I DO get it.
quote:

Yes, well, I've never done acid, lsd or anything else that has artificially ripened/enacted my pineal or DMT but if I did, it would be a wild ride. Since I am easily prone to be 'activated' into that mode (some might compare it to subspace but it is more complicated than that), I can activate lightly (but I avoid it), because it is a scary place sometimes. You are right, it does take pages n pages lol and I DO get it.


ok, like a dream that tends to be forgotten or not fully remembered. I'm just guessing but I would suspect you have some pranic centers blocked, (chakras) especially since you use the word 'scary' place, but we're getting a little off OP so .....

( in the meantime I suggest you look up Merkabah, also spelled Merkaba on wiki, you tube and anywhere else. )




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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/7/2010 12:01:22 AM   
aldompdx


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Status: offline 		Ialdabaoth,
To simplify, we are speaking English here, and not some invented private language.
Language itself is comprised of abstract and indirect symbols, which are relative to each person's memory (labeling mechanism).
While I am not advocating absolute right or wrong, there exists common meaning around the geometric center of a gaussian curve derived from popular consensus among the set of all persons who speak English. Otherwise, anything means everything and nothing.

Once again, the response deflects toward external language apart from the original post regarding inner spirit.

For those who question whether they are conscious with spirit, I recommend reading "The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness" by Antonio Damasio. Therein you may discover that "Core Consciousness" affects "Core Self" as spirit. Thus, expanding awareness to reach toward such core consciousness/self is spirituality.

As others have suggested, there are shamanic type approaches (energetic sensory activity), and there are zen-like meditative type approaches (still awareness); the former being transitory, while the later being invoked at will.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/7/2010 12:15:24 AM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
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From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

Ialdabaoth,
To simplify, we are speaking English here, and not some invented private language.



:( I wish I could give you this beautiful moon...

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/7/2010 12:23:15 AM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

How is or can BDSM-D/s be a path to spirituality?
What can BDSM-D/s teach us about the spirit?
Do you feel more spiritual because of your BDSM-D/s experiences?
Do you feel less spiritual (more animalistic) because of your BDSM-D/s experiences?


I just feel calm when I do what I like.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/7/2010 11:24:36 AM   
HeathenMa1am


Posts: 48
Joined: 1/29/2010
Status: offline 		My spirituality, sexuality, and political opinions form a loop that reinforce each other-- like a vicious cycle, except that I feel good about it.

So: I serve no one but my Goddess, therefore I am a dominant toward other humans. I am an avatar of my Goddess, therefore I am a dominant toward other humans.

I follow in the path of my heathen ancestresses who proudly wore the keys of their households to symbolize their ownership of their households and lands, and I expect that when I finally marry I will also be the owner and manager of the household. That is not to say that I want a wimp for a husband, far from it. The pattern of relationship and ownership to which I refer comes from the Viking Age, and the men in those relationships were Vikings. They were the terrors of half the world, pirates on the high seas, strong, brave, and yes, free, not slaves, but they submitted to their wives. That is the kind of relationship I want. And the kind of relationship that my heathen religion says is the correct kind.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/7/2010 12:14:17 PM   
wisdomtogive


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

How is or can BDSM-D/s be a path to spirituality?
What can BDSM-D/s teach us about the spirit?
Do you feel more spiritual because of your BDSM-D/s experiences?
Do you feel less spiritual (more animalistic) because of your BDSM-D/s experiences?


I just feel calm when I do what I like.


I really liked how you put it. Thank you. Sometimes we get caught up in trying to explain that we forget the simple part. I too feel calm when i am doing what i enjoy....living to my fullest.

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/7/2010 12:18:33 PM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		You are very welcome
( I like things simple..or perhaps...I am just simple ;) )

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RE: BDSM: Path to Spiritual Enlightenment? - 3/7/2010 1:31:44 PM   
wisdomtogive


Posts: 636
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Status: offline 		There is a lot to be said about this word simple. People love complicating many things and miss the simpliest concepts. Simple is good.

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