RE: Denouncement (Full Version)

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AnimusRex -> RE: Denouncement (3/6/2010 12:10:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Jonnie, I hate to tell you this, but when dealing with us American types... a large percentage of us do not have a clue that there is a difference between Wales and England...


Indeed. As soon as Americans figure out where Canada is, we will get right on that Wales thing.



stef -> RE: Denouncement (3/6/2010 12:16:53 PM)

Oh please, we all know where our 51st state is.  [;)]

~stef



NorthernGent -> RE: Denouncement (3/6/2010 1:35:46 PM)

"Land of my fathers?! My fathers can keep it!"

Dylan Thomas.



Justme696 -> RE: Denouncement (3/7/2010 12:51:29 AM)

Just introduce the Euro everywere overthere..would solve the first problems...lol ( for visitors)



NorthernGent -> RE: Denouncement (3/7/2010 2:49:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Just introduce the Euro everywere overthere..would solve the first problems...lol ( for visitors)



Either that............or dismantle the channel tunnel and block all of the ports so none of these continental European types can access this fair land.....Euros or otherwise....

For a lot of people over here......that would be a sterling solution to the problem of said visitors.




Justme696 -> RE: Denouncement (3/7/2010 2:51:08 AM)

Yeah that would be a solution too.
Aslong people don't float soemwhere in between. People need a clear identity.
Either by themselfs..or be like the others.



NorthernGent -> RE: Denouncement (3/7/2010 3:19:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Yeah that would be a solution too.
Aslong people don't float soemwhere in between. People need a clear identity.
Either by themselfs..or be like the others.



You mean Britain's role in Europe?

The thing with this is the continental Europeans - particularly the French and Germans - don't see it as we do. Their vision is a united Europe competing with the United States. We really don't see it like that - particularly as the United States has been very useful to us. Our nuclear weapons came from the US - well Macmillan persuaded Kennedy to let us have them - and we ended up with the latest technology which we really couldn't afford (we got them at a knock down price). One of the American diplomats who was present in the Bahamas when this deal was done said they wouldn't have done that for any other country. Now of course there was something in it for the Americans - namely an ally with influence in Europe.

But that's not really the point either.

The point is that British foreign policy has always been conducted on the premise that we leave ourselves free to choose when the moment arises. We've never gone in for alliances that bind us to one particular course of action - for example 2 days before WW1 it was unclear what Britain would do (we had options and were bound to no one). Whereas the Germans and French had committed themselves to a particular course of action through binding alliances that were agreed years in advance.

So - with this in mind - we see it as a favourable position to be in to be able to make deals with either the US or Europe depending upon what we need and what they're offering. It doesn't make sense to us to tie ourselves to one or the other. So - I wouldn't expect Britain to suddenly commit herself to Europe - it isn't going to happen. In fact - we have a general election coming up and it looks likely that the Conservative Party will form the next government - so expect Britain to pull away from Europe in the next 5 years.

And then there's France. Now we've had a decent relationship with France in the past - for example in the 30 years leading up to WW1 France was our main ally and we'd come to an arrangement where Britain gave concessions to France in the shape of parts of Africa in return for no messing around with the trading routes in and out of the channel. But this is far removed from what the French are proposing today - it is almost inconceivable that Britain and France could work closely together in a united Europe because we just see things so differently - we'd never be able to agree on the important matters. In fact I'd be amazed if France really wanted us in there because they hate the Anglo-Saxon method of conducting economics - why would they want the threat of our way of doing things usurping theirs? And they're aware that British diplomats are extremely persuasive and have the capacity to bend a few ears to their will.



Justme696 -> RE: Denouncement (3/7/2010 3:51:58 AM)

I see your point, but the past is the past.
The USA often closes his market for outsiders..China is on the rise ( and propably ruining itself also...it is going to fast). Europe had to do something.
David ( a single country) against Goliath ( China or the USA) is a nice story.....but....in Economics it is often different.

We, the Dutch, never voted for Europe. We like to be us, but I must admit...it is not as bad as we thought.
But it is hard to pick a side..agree...or to know what happens when you don't pick a side.



NorthernGent -> RE: Denouncement (3/7/2010 4:53:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

I see your point, but the past is the past.



The past is the present in this case.

The British government remains intent on being free to choose when the moment arises. And we see things differently to the French - we couldn't agree on the important matters - which renders our involvement more of a hindernace than a help. There is no way the French will bow to our way of doing things; likewise we couldn't bow to the French.

And to many over here the Germans have achieved through diplomacy what they couldn't achieve through war: that is a united continental European customs union under German domination. Not for us mate - but of course the French and yourselves are entitled to go along with it.



Justme696 -> RE: Denouncement (3/7/2010 10:41:27 AM)

We still are free in Europe.
Europe makes some rules which you can accept, but local rules still stand above the European rules.
It is not as strict as it sounds.
(we can still download legally here and smoke pot :P ..absurd examples..but you get the point)


ps. Germany is one of the biggest industrial countries. We all gain from it.



NorthernGent -> RE: Denouncement (3/7/2010 10:49:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

We still are free in Europe.
Europe makes some rules which you can accept, but local rules still stand above the European rules.
It is not as strict as it sounds.
(we can still download legally here and smoke pot :P ..absurd examples..but you get the point)


ps. Germany is one of the biggest industrial countries. We all gain from it.



Small details though isn't it.....in terms of the important matters the Germans and French have the power. Now I'd imagine those two would be willing to share that with us. Problem is we're not willing to share that with them.

Anyway - speaking of Dutch customs....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRfluaMKoOY



JonnieBoy -> RE: Denouncement (3/9/2010 1:00:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Jonnie, I hate to tell you this, but when dealing with us American types... a large percentage of us do not have a clue that there is a difference between Wales and England...


Indeed. As soon as Americans figure out where Canada is, we will get right on that Wales thing.


DarkSteven ... in my times in the USA, that is transparent.

AnimusRex ... Canada is in America (last I heard)

Re : Wales ... It's well worth learning the language if nothing else ... the tongue action involved is most popular with ladies ... trust me [8D].

Pirate



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