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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 11:01:55 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

Jet fuel is far more toxic and flammable than diesel


Jet fuel is diesel that has had some of the dirt taken out.
If you were to check the flight manual for a B52 in the "alternative fuel" section you would see that diesel is listed and cautions that the engines should be derated by about 10%

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 11:11:57 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Jet fuel  fumes contain sulphur, as does diesel fumes, as does tobacco smoke, ( I know because it turns my household silver yellowy brown), could it be perhaps that sulphur flooding the body's senses all day every day in polluted areas gives rise to a reaction which might lead to cancers.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 11:12:25 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Not to worry Aneirin - the steady pace of progress will eventually reach Devon I'm sure!

E

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 11:14:46 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

If diesel fumes were such a carcinogen would it not follow that there would be inordinately high mortality rates amongst truck drivers and diesel mechanics?


I do believe you are being intentionally obtuse.
The driver is in the air conditioned cab is several feet in front of the exhaust stack and he is moving forward so the diesel smoke trail is behind him...I believe even a six year old would have noticed that.
Diesel mechanics do not typically get to snort fumes in the same density as the person driving behind a diesel or the person who lives next to a heavily traveled diesel pathway. The smart ones use rubber gloves and change to clean works clothes at least daily.

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 11:17:12 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

Wait now, I have a summons to appear in court.


Yeah I did too but that did not stop them from denying me access to the court room based on "dress code"...I had one leg in a full cast from toe to butt cheek so I was wearing shorts.

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 11:19:30 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Jet fuel  fumes contain sulphur, as does diesel fumes, as does tobacco smoke, ( I know because it turns my household silver yellowy brown), could it be perhaps that sulphur flooding the body's senses all day every day in polluted areas gives rise to a reaction which might lead to cancers.



I do not know about there but here high sulphur diesel fuel is being phased out. Then of course there is the Fiat "common rail injection system" which has helped out both in fuel economy and lowering emisions.

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 11:20:48 AM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Another researcher investigating the possibility of cancer being caused by diesel fumes ;

http://www.icr.ac.uk/research/research_highlights/5864.shtml

http://www.icr.ac.uk/research/research_sections/molecular_carcinogenesis/molecular_carcinogenesis_teams/human_biomonitoring_&_carcinogen_activation/genotoxicity_of_a_diesel_mutagen/1509.shtml

Maybe Dr Kitty Little was not so wrong after all.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/7/2010 11:23:23 AM >

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 11:59:54 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Another researcher investigating the possibility of cancer being caused by diesel fumes ;

http://www.icr.ac.uk/research/research_highlights/5864.shtml

http://www.icr.ac.uk/research/research_sections/molecular_carcinogenesis/molecular_carcinogenesis_teams/human_biomonitoring_&_carcinogen_activation/genotoxicity_of_a_diesel_mutagen/1509.shtml

Maybe Dr Kitty Little was not so wrong after all.


She is wrong because she states that cigarette smoke contains no carcinogens... that is completely incorrect. There is no amount of comparing diesel to tobacco that will make her argument correct...

Edited to add, nicotine is a co-carcinogen.. in other words, nicotine works in concert with other carcinogens to make them even more carcinogenic.. that would make mixing cigarettes with other carcinogenic pollution even more cancer causing.. you know, pollutants like ... DIESEL 



< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 3/7/2010 12:01:52 PM >

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 4:52:57 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Yes, and everyone can see from the links I provided lately, there is concern over the link between enviromental pollution and cancer. Not all enviromental pollution is a problem as far we know  cancer is concerned, but those that research are now looking at diesel fumes. Something has been identified and now needs further analysis, but in meantime non smokers contract lung cancer and despite treatment, die from it. There are many causes of lung cancer, but I feel attributing it to one cause above all, not only is it dishonest,given what is known,  but it is plain wrong in a so called caring society.

But, hey, it seems life is cheap, more can suffer and die before any positive action is taken, all in the name of science.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/7/2010 4:56:38 PM >

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 6:05:12 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Yes, and everyone can see from the links I provided lately, there is concern over the link between enviromental pollution and cancer. Not all enviromental pollution is a problem as far we know  cancer is concerned, but those that research are now looking at diesel fumes. Something has been identified and now needs further analysis, but in meantime non smokers contract lung cancer and despite treatment, die from it. There are many causes of lung cancer, but I feel attributing it to one cause above all, not only is it dishonest,given what is known,  but it is plain wrong in a so called caring society.

But, hey, it seems life is cheap, more can suffer and die before any positive action is taken, all in the name of science.




It is pretty clear from the medical literature that there is more than one cause of cancer.
Are you really trying to say that smoking is not one of them?

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 6:36:45 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Smoking can be a cause, but my question is, is it ? Could it be that other enviromental pollutants are the cause but are as of yet unkown, or ignored for whatever reason.

This 3nitrobenzathrone identified as a component of diesel fumes, it would be interesting to know where else that chemical occurs. If it is present in tobacco smoke, then fair enough, but if it is not, then either tobacco smoke contains something other that causes cells to mutate leading to lung cancer or not, but that is for the research scientists to find out and be truthful in their reports.

I am hoping in years to come we all as a population will have a list of things to avoid or keep to an extreme minimum in order to avoid cancers and other related illnesses.

I am to a certain extent anti the non smoking education we receive, not because I am a smoker, but because the reasons for tobacco being a carcinogen are not fully explained beyond layman's terms, I ask that our intelligence is not abused. Furthermore, when politicains get hold of something to promote, I become even more dubious.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/7/2010 6:37:58 PM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 7:32:34 PM   
Termyn8or


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Look when I was little I could do nothing about it. They smoked and breathed it. Since then I have been on a steady diet of pollution.

So keep yourself clean, don't smoke, drink or anything. Live atotally clean life. Oh wait, you have to go out and get food. There are all those nasty trucks out there with food bringing the naturally grown vegetable to the store. Hold on, should we stop them ? We are BREATHING this noxious SHIT because they are driving down the street ! It is going to kill us ! Let's stop all this madness !

Instead we will just starve to death.

You get the fucking point yet ? I was a kid, I was immersed in the environment. There was no excuse and if would've3 killed me my family would just chalk it up and move on. I don't fucking know how and wher you all were raised but I doubt you would've survived my childhood. I don't know what to tell you.

You are fucking weak, every last one of you. I don't care if you can physically kick my ass, I mean a different kind of strength. Nobody has it. Nobody. The only way to get a certain kind of strength is to be required to have it, live or die. Did your family have the backbone to let that happen ?

I'll go rebuild a deisel engine (and that is the spellingh no matter what anyone says) with a cigarette, a joint, a blunt and a crackpipe in my other hand. I''l change a transmission in a thunderstorm. I'll show you what true mettle is. I am not what I once was physically and I learned just a bit too much. I fear nothing because I welcome death.

Now the rest of you can just pay and obey. You can fight over the dwindling resouces this puny planet has to offer. I do not care. Have your fucking air. No cigarette smoke but you can have the rest, the chemtrails, the acid rain, the all the other shit.

And like the puppy I had when I was little who had been starved and abused, the PTB will take the broom and smack your head over from the food bowl to the water bowl so you don't get sick.

People disgust me. Let's just outlaw people and be done with it.

T

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 7:46:31 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

Smoking can be a cause, but my question is, is it ? Could it be that other enviromental pollutants are the cause but are as of yet unkown, or ignored for whatever reason.


The medical proof is there. If you choose to ignore it that is not my problem.
If you believe that smoking ciggies is good for you who am I to disabuse you of your ignorance.

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 8:23:55 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		thom, the medical proof was there in the Sears catalogue from the early 1900s. If you wear this belt that connects to your dick and keep fresh batteries in it you will not get gout.

Bring it on, none of it means shit to me.

T

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/7/2010 8:46:53 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

thom, the medical proof was there in the Sears catalogue from the early 1900s. If you wear this belt that connects to your dick and keep fresh batteries in it you will not get gout.

Bring it on, none of it means shit to me.

T



For a man who is as bright as you are to make such a statement is just asinine.
Do you really equate an advertisement to actual research?

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/8/2010 3:39:40 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Have you ever heard of sarcasm ?

T

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/8/2010 6:06:23 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

I am to a certain extent anti the non smoking education we receive, not because I am a smoker, but because the reasons for tobacco being a carcinogen are not fully explained beyond layman's terms, I ask that our intelligence is not abused. Furthermore, when politicains get hold of something to promote, I become even more dubious.


Here is layman's terms for you...

People who smoke get sick more often with respiratory problems. Their kids get sick more often. Their kids get asthma. They get COPD. They get emphysema.

Now, it does not take a lot of studies for people who smoke  and people who do not smoke to see that it is a harmful habit. It is a largely preventable cause of much illness. As someone who could barely breathe 5 years ago, I can tell you my life is completely different today. I am not the only one with such a story.

Now you are focused on one disease, not even the most common of smoking related ailments, there are a large list of others. Cancers are just some of the scariest of the diseases associated with smoking, the others suck too. Look at photos of smokers and non smokers once both groups reach middle age, smokers age faster than non smokers...

You do not think this is a worthwhile campaign for your government, but it very well is, and it has been known for decades upon decades by tobacco companies that their product causes cancer... in fact, they hid that information for about 40 years, before the proliferation of these other pollutants you are blaming for all of the cancers...




_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/8/2010 7:57:03 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Have you ever heard of sarcasm ?

T


Thumps self in head

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/8/2010 10:41:53 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		LOL. But the point is we are exposed to so much these days I think smoking is not the main issue anymore. We now have (for a couple of decades) people who can't stand the outgassing of the plastic used in their monitor or TV. I've seen people administer breathing drugs to infants, which abhors me. The kid's body would adapt if given the chance.

In other words when I went to Grampa's he had no notion whatsoever of not smoking. It was his house and he did what he damn well pleased. I wanted to be there. That nasty cigar with the end chewed off and saliva dripping from it did not disuade me. To a kid (me) the smell sucked. But I wanted to be there. I learned about tools and motors and all sorts of things, later (at about 13) we were practically in business. That Man shaped my life, possibly moreso than my own Father. I would not care if he was spitting on me and shitting on the floor, I wanted to be there.

Not counting the last year and a half of his life, which went as expected, badly, I have never met anyone even remotely like him. Who the fuck was I to even cough in his presence ? However Grandma would kick his ass. She never smoked at all. She would just up and say "Get that filthy fucking cigar out of my kitchen ! ". But then she was cooking. 

Really, the main difference is that you can choose not to smoke. Not that it ever came up. If us kids couldn't handle the environment I guess we would just have to learn to die well. When it comes to deisel fumes you have no choice.

Whatever it is, it is part of the environment, and you had better adapt to it because it is highly unlikely that the environment will adapt to you. Maybe if I lived out in the stacks, and knew noone who smoked, things would be different. But that's not how it is. You fight for the quality of air, are you kidding ? You are fighting society. I do that but I choose my battles and this ain't one of them. Fighting over the quality of this dogshit we all breathe is pointless. Adapt or die.

I did.

T

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RE: Diesel fumes more carcinogenic than smoking - 3/10/2010 8:35:52 AM   
MotownSingleGuy


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From: The Motor City, Michigan, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Jet fuel fumes contain sulphur, as does diesel fumes, as does tobacco smoke, ( I know because it turns my household silver yellowy brown), could it be perhaps that sulphur flooding the body's senses all day every day in polluted areas gives rise to a reaction which might lead to cancers.

I do not know about there but here high sulphur diesel fuel is being phased out. Then of course there is the Fiat "common rail injection system" which has helped out both in fuel economy and lowering emisions.


Almost all modern Diesel engines use high-pressure common-rail electronic fuel injection, not just Fiat.

On-road Diesel fuel is limited to 10 parts per million sulfur content in the European Union. Off-road Diesel fuel will also be in 2011.
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/fuel_auto.php

Diesel fuel in North America is being limited to 15 ppm.
http://www.clean-diesel.org/index.htm

Jet fuels do contain sulfur, but usually only about 0.03%. (300 parts per million)


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