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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 9:21:47 AM

truckinslave

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Waiting for your facts, sir, as opposed to what you heard from "Tom Baker".

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 9:25:31 AM

Moonhead

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I was a bit disappointed to find that this wasn't the Tom Baker I first thought of. His line on this might have been a lot more interesting.

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 9:27:14 AM

truckinslave

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quote:

But to the OP- I applaud you for taking the position that government can have a beneficial and assertive role to play in controlling the marketplace; that point of view sees the government as a tool we use to our benefit as citizens, not an evil to be destroyed.

Wow, there I was enjoying your post, finding agreement, feelion good, and- BAM!!- you had to spin me like that.

I might accept characteriing my post taking the position that gummint can have a beneficial role in augmenting the marketplace, lol.... not so much asserive, certainly not controlling.

But we do agree it is a tool

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 9:34:14 AM

thornhappy

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Insurance premiums go up when the insurance company's investments get hammered. We went through this in the late '80s also - premiums jumped even with no commensurate increase in claims.

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 9:42:14 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Waiting for your facts, sir, as opposed to what you heard from "Tom Baker".

maybe you missed this before:
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=5549&type=0
http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=103623715.html
http://www.centerjd.org/air/TrueRiskF.pdf

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:02:18 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

But the one thing all sensible people agree stops "arbitrary increases" in any kind of pricing is: competition. Like, across state lines.....

Yes, competition will lower prices, which is the whole point of the public option.

Allowing competition across state lines will only decrease the ability of smaller companies to compete and allow the largest insurance companies to dominate the market nationwide.

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:07:40 AM

truckinslave

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Just skimming part of the CBO study:

"Many of the studies conclude that tort reform can affect outcomes most closely related to the tort system in much the same way that advocates of changing the tort system would claim. Those studies find that reforms in general have decreased the number of lawsuits, reduced awards,"

and

"States that enacted tort reforms had lower Medicare spending for hospitalization of elderly patients with heart disease and heart attacks, with no significant increase in adverse health outcomes."

It's nonsensical to argue that high punitive damage awards, and/or unlimited pain and suffering awards, do not result in more extensive testing. We really do need some commonsense thinking and action, not more "black is white" argument. If you think that suing doctors into oblivion reduces cost, go try to convince someone else (you can argue increased quality, sensibly, but not decreased cost). Tort reform, pooling, and buying across state lines are all ideas whose time has come.

Obamacare? Maybe not.

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:08:45 AM

truckinslave

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The point of the public option is the elimination of competition.

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:09:00 AM

mnottertail

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well skimming and clipping for sure...........what does it say about public option?

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:09:28 AM

Musicmystery

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Competition is not always the solution.

It's why we have regulated natural monopolies (utilities in particular).

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/6/2010 10:10:51 AM >

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:13:26 AM

truckinslave

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quote:

Allowing competition across state lines will only decrease the ability of smaller companies to compete and allow the largest insurance companies to dominate the market nationwide.

An argument unsupported by fact or common sense (smaller companies are often more competitive where economies of scale are not evident, and exist often for the sole purpose of filling niche markets (i.e. custom policies); but let's accept the argument for the sake of argument.

If the smaller companies were driven out of business as a result of increased price competition.... it's a win for the consumer. It's like arguing for the family farm (which I do in another context)- bigger is often cheaper.

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:16:27 AM

Musicmystery

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The state line thing is a Trojan horse for circumventing regulation.

Companies ALREADY do business in multiple states under the same umbrella company.

It solves nothing, and invites new problems.

If untouched opportunities were waiting, opportunity cost would have already spawned companies to supply that product.

It's a soundbite to dodge addressing health care, not a solution.

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:17:06 AM

truckinslave

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Neither healthcare nor insurance seem to me to fall into the category of "natural monoply".
Nor, honestly, does competition seem an answer to all the problems of healthcare delivery. I didn't exactly price-shop my laminectomies....
But competition between insurance companies would be a good thing (even Nancy says so lol)

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:21:08 AM

Musicmystery

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It's just one example.

Put it more simply---what we have isn't working well. And what we have is already competitive, at least theoretically.

And if it's not, then the argument that the public option eliminates competition doesn't hold water--we're just changing the provider.

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:21:35 AM

truckinslave

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I think it honestly is a problem. Every state sets up requirements that make no sense to me or many others. Low cost, high deductible policies that amount to catastrophic coverage only are an available option to some young people in some states and barred in others. Why? Again and again and again.... the states have made rules that eliminate choices and stifle competition in the name of protecting their citizens.

I prefer freedom.

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:24:19 AM

pahunkboy

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FR:

reform can not work.

I say this- because our model rewards- selling most pills at highest price. Therfore the model must change beginning with the crappy food supply. Get rid of HFCS and overly refined products. or at least make options available. Obesity per HFSC is going to mean lots of pills and pills that cost alot of money. so until the basic food supply is fixed- I expect NOTHING in terms of "reform"

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:26:06 AM

pahunkboy

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I feel sorry for DRs. They try to do the right thing - and get pounded from every direction. We could forgive their student loans. That would be a start.

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:26:07 AM

Musicmystery

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And the name of freedom is---no health coverage...for the uninsured, for the previously insured who got the wrong illness, for the suddenly unemployed, for all of us as costs continue to spiral upward.

We also have the freedom to band together and make decisions for the common good.

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:26:42 AM

truckinslave

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quote:

Put it more simply---what we have isn't working well. And what we have is already competitive, at least theoretically.

I think it's working well. 82% like their insurance. There are anecdotal horror stories. No one in my extended family has had an insoluble problem. I've burned 'em down, too. Two stints in rehab, four operationjs in the past 13 years (2 laminectomies, an ulnar nerve reroute, umbilical hernia repair), and a child born 17 weeks prematurely. Then again even as a drunk I bought health insurance. Other people made other choices with their money; some of them got burned.

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RE: A simple idea about healthcare - 3/6/2010 10:28:18 AM

truckinslave

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The cost that is spiralling upward without end is government. The gift that keeps on giving. The swamp that never drains.

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