RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 9:24:46 AM)

quote:

Most people don't like a flashlight shined onto their blindspots. I never made the connection between posting and rorsarch tests before, but the question still remains, how much can correctly be read into a "snapshot."


At times there has been  an OP or two that I thought it might be helpful to them to reveal that it seemed they were revealing a "deeper" issue than what was on the surface of their post. There are many times I have thoughts about what people post and wonder about it, enough to at times ask them. Most of the time I leave it alone because picking scabs on a public forum for no reason other than to in some way rebuke another poster is kinda rude and mean-spirited... I think that what LL posted in her assumptions had no real purpose to the discussion at hand to be honest...

I say this as someone that usually enjoys her posts, she is intelligent and she has a lot of good insights




LadyAngelika -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 9:46:07 AM)

This OP was 3 questions. I got exactly what he said. I didn't see it as a projection on his part in any way. I saw a man who was trying to understand a behaviour by asking a question.

Having a statement in my profile saying that I am looking for a long term relationship is something that I actually do hesitate putting there as I feel it gives off the impression that I do want to put the cart before the horse, which I know deep down that I don't. But what I also realise is that at 37 years of age, I'm very aware of what it is that I want and when I find a man who will match my fundamental criteria, if he isn't relationship minded, it isn't going to work.

The idea of expectations is a whole other story. Everyday I try to rid myself of expectations. Jiddu Krishnamurti wrote "To seek fulfillment is to invite frustration" and his writings on riding ourselves of expectations are astoundingly brilliant. Does that mean that I'm no longer hopeful? No.

This transcript from Krishamurti sums up so wonderfully what we are discussing right now: http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/fear-security.html - I'd post it but it's quite lengthy.

- LA


<edited to fix the link>




Rochsub2009 -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 9:47:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

When I have been in the market there are a few things that tend to set my teeth on edge in profiles. These sorts of profiles exist on every dating site I have ever seen. People who scream about players, drama, and liars make me RUN away. I have no time for that sort of negativity. At the same time I do not think much about it unless someone asks what I think of their profile. I just click on to the next profile attempting to put my energy into finding what I want, instead of focusing on those who turn me off...

I would suggest you do the same thing, because you aren't going to change the methods other people use to find mates, and everyone is free to put up their ad in any sort of language they like



EXACTLY!!!!  Juliaoceania said it perfectly.

OP, this is a public message board.  There are all types of people on here.  Each of them has a different style and wording to their profile.  Every profile is not going to be of interest to everybody. Different strokes for different folks. So simply find the ones that interest you and move on.  Complaining about those that don't interest you seems like a waste of time.  After all, you are not going to get them to change their profiles simply by ranting about it.  Instead, all you do is make YOURSELF seem overly whiny. 




DesFIP -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 9:50:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

But if you list only requirements-and they are put across as absolutes.....On a D/s site?

How is that supposed to interest a Dominant person? It comes across a lot to me like "Jump though my hoops,and I may decide to give you a crumb."
At least show some reason to make the *effort.* And before people start whining-it goes BOTH ways.


It isn't about getting someone to jump through hoops. It says "this is who I am, if you feel we are compatible then let's talk, otherwise no thanks".

The way you wrote this seems to indicate that you expect every sub to be a tabula rasa open for you to mold. There may be some like that, but I very much doubt it.

And as far as it going both ways, certainly. Which is why when I was looking, I didn't go any further when they said extremely strict or sadistic, because I knew I wasn't compatible. I didn't expect them to change to suit me, I just moved on until I did find someone extremely compatible.




SimplyMichael -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 10:19:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

This transcript from Krishamurti sums up so wonderfully what we are discussing right now: http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/fear-security.html. I'd post it but it's quite lengthy.

- LA[/font]


Woman, you rock!




LadyAngelika -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 10:42:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

This transcript from Krishamurti sums up so wonderfully what we are discussing right now: http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/fear-security.html - I'd post it but it's quite lengthy.

- LA



Woman, you rock!


Thanks. I discoverd Krishnamurti about 5 years ago it is some of the most liberating stuff I've ever read.

I also fixed the link in my post and here. Nasty little . got it all mixed up

- LA




domiguy -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 10:48:11 AM)

If I was stuck in the same elevator as Krishnamurti I would ask him to please be quiet. And then when he asked me, "what does quiet mean?" I would then be forced to tear out his fucking throat.




jujubeeMB -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 10:52:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger
How is that supposed to interest a Dominant person? It comes across a lot to me like "Jump though my hoops,and I may decide to give you a crumb."


News for you: desire for a long term relationship interests tons of Dom/mes. There is nothing "jump through my hoops" about stating clearly that you're not looking for casual sex.

What does "give you a crumb" mean to you? I'm curious.




HeathenMa1am -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 10:55:42 AM)

I see nothing wrong with saying I'm not interested in one night stands. I'm not here to get laid, I'm here to get married. If I just wanted to get laid, I wouldn't need to go to the internet to find someone. My nearest adult club would provide me a couple of hundred opportunities a night.




RealSub58 -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 11:05:41 AM)

There are so many ways to ask this question...

Yes I expect a long term relationship.
Friendship and building a relationship takes time.
I want to know if the man I am speaking with is a man I CAN and will be happy to serve.  I want to know if he is a sadist or sensualist.  I want to feel his control and know he is in control.

To find that man, I need to met and greet and "get it on."
If that goes well, then yes I hope we are on the same road, on a journey to some destination.  

I will not wait 18 months getting to know someone only to realize i hate serving/submitting to him.

So, I
1. expect to make initial contact and chemistry...........
2. expect to "get it on" ..................
3. expect to continue building..............

It is like dating.... how simple is that????




Rochsub2009 -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 11:16:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

It is like dating.... how simple is that????



Exactly.  Couldn't have said it any more clearly.




SimplyMichael -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 1:32:38 PM)

Clarity is a wonderful thing. I very much am interested in a long term relationship and I would like to know up front if someone isn't interested in one. There are people who, for a variety of reasons, really are only looking for something short term or casual and it is good to know that up front as well.




LadyPact -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 1:37:31 PM)

Would you have felt better if the terminology had been different?  Such as 'prefer' long term or 'only interested in' long term?  If someone is 'only willing to participate' in long term, I think that is something that should be stated up front.




VaguelyCurious -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 2:08:20 PM)

FR, having read the whole thread.

Warning: this post consists entirely of pedantry and surmantics.

OP, the phrase 'expecting X, Y, Z' is not synonymous with 'expecting X, Y, Z handed to you on a plate'.

You can expect to work towards maintaining and strengthening something.
You can expect to have to wade through a whole load of profiles to find something.
You can expect to wait a long time for something.

None of these options negate the fact that you expect it to happen. None of these options means you feel 'entitled' to an outcome.

Example:
I expect the sun to rise tomorrow.
I don't feel any sense of entitlement about that expectation-it's just something I believe will happen-that's all an expectation is...




LadyAngelika -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 2:14:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Would you have felt better if the terminology had been different?  Such as 'prefer' long term or 'only interested in' long term?  If someone is 'only willing to participate' in long term, I think that is something that should be stated up front.


Not to be splitting hairs LP, but if I were to state that I was only willing to participate in long term relationships, that would definitely be putting the cart before the horse. That to me would signify locking the relationship in for a set time.

I think, because we have no idea what the future can bring, and because it really takes a long time to know someone fully (that is, if we ever really do), the best we can do if a long term relationship is our goal is to be as honest as to who we are, what we want and act in a relationship-minded way. that is, when we find someone we meet, to stop dating others, focus on the one that interests us, etc. We also need to find people who are willing to act in a relationship-minded way.

When I look back at my last relationship, I know that we shared a really deep bond and love with one another. Had I listened properly to the cues he was giving me in the beginning however, I would have realised that circumstances made it that at that time in his life, he would not be capable of committing and that he could not be relationship-minded; he had far too many personal transitions to go through. I learned from this and now, I am careful when interacting with someone that appeals to me that he is in the right headspace to be engage in a relationship. Because all the love and lust in the world will not weather the inability, for whatever reason, to make an honest and solid commitment.

- LA




SimplyMichael -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 2:23:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I would have realised that circumstances made it that at that time in his life, he would not be capable of committing and that he could not be relationship-minded; he had far too many personal transitions to go through. I learned from this and now, I am careful when interacting with someone that appeals to me that he is in the right headspace to be engage in a relationship. Because all the love and lust in the world will not weather the inability, for whatever reason, to make an honest and solid commitment.

- LA[/font]


How very sad and how very true.




Icarys -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 5:18:01 PM)

Ya know if that word doesn't somehow fit your cosmic view of whether or not the rings of Saturn reflect off of Uranus which in turn somehow changes the price of rice on the global market..move to the next person.




WyldHrt -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 6:09:32 PM)

quote:

Be careful Julia, he's trying to get you on a couch... ;-)

You say that like it's a bad thing, LA [8D]
Besides, I think he prefers the hot tub to a couch for therapy sessions. [;)]

As to the OP, I think it really does boil down to semantics. One thing to keep in mind is that sometimes the wording in a profile is changed as a person has positive or negative experiences on the other side, and the results can be... rather strident. It's not uncommon to see a lesbian or bi female profile that originally said, "Please, no men. I'm seeking females only" changed to say "ABSOLUTELY NO MEN!!!!!! IF YOU ARE MALE, F-OFF!!!!" Such changes are often the result of too many men ignoring the polite request and writing anyway, often making rude comments. The same goes for other things in profiles that come across as negative.

In the case of profiles that seem to "expect" an LTR, I have to wonder if the language was perhaps changed after the person received one too many, "I'll be in your area in two days. Meet me at XXXX hotel and be prepared to be used" cmails. Sometimes people get annoyed at the types of mail they get, and unintentionally shoot themselves in the foot by letting that annoyance come out in their profile. We've had any number of new folks here who have posted for advice, and been told that the language in their profile is off-putting. The number one reason given for the wording is that the person was getting too much wank mail when they tried to say things politely.

Anyway, just another $.02










LafayetteLady -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 6:58:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger
How is that supposed to interest a Dominant person? It comes across a lot to me like "Jump though my hoops,and I may decide to give you a crumb."


News for you: desire for a long term relationship interests tons of Dom/mes. There is nothing "jump through my hoops" about stating clearly that you're not looking for casual sex.

What does "give you a crumb" mean to you? I'm curious.



Well, well, not surprisingly, LA has jumped onto the "projection" issue, yet again. As usual, her "deductions" about me are as far from the truth as Pluto is from the sun. If one were to read other of the OP's posts and comments, they would notice that he has this tendency to think, as DesFIP put it, that a sub/slave should be a "tabula rasa" on which he can write his own story.

As jujubeeMB says above, and so many others have also said, it is unlikely that would happen. The concept of "jumping through hoops and I may decide to give you a crumb...." is the type of conclusion one reaches through bad experiences. It is very interesting to note that Icarys made the same assumption as me, yet no one seemed to notice. I have little doubts as to why that is, and the more intelligent around here I'm sure can figure that out as well.

Saying you want a "long term relationship" is not putting the "cart before the horse." Quite frankly, I find it sad that some seem to think so. It doesn't imply anyone has a "set time frame" they expect a relationship to last. What it DOES mean, is I'm not looking for a play partner, or to just hook up.

I don't think that anyone would argue that there are a significant number of people with profiles on the other side who are looking for nothing more than hook ups and playmates. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and no doubt enough for anyone to choose from.

Putting "seeks LTR," is the first and easiest way to let someone know that you aren't looking for a hook up. As I said earlier, if anyone remembers back to high school, and the boyfriends/girlfriends they had at that time, they considered them "long term." Whether they last a month or a year. It isn't putting a set time on it, it is letting people know that you aren't likely going to be playing on a first date, you want to take the time to get to know them and develop the relationship beyond what you have in common from a kinky standpoint.

The only difference between CM and say "Match.com" is that around here, people tend to list sexual/power dynamic desires. That's a good thing when one considers how many relationships do fail based on sexual incompatibility. Someone mentioned (I believe it might have been LA) they considered changing it to "preferred long term relationship." Well, one can certainly do that, but then in my own little way of projecting....how many people do you think would be knocking on your profile looking for those hook ups because although you listed a "preference," you are implying you will take less than that?

I see absolutely nothing wrong with anyone, top or bottom having STANDARDS of what they seek in a partner. That "perfect" partner might not exist, and the reality is that most of us have had to compromise on something, but usually those compromises were trivial to begin with. Perhaps you wanted someone over 6 feet tall, and the person you end up with is only 5'10". But those non-negotiable standards, such as wanting someone who isn't married or otherwise committed (this is meant to the exclusion of the poly people), should never be questioned by any "potential" partner.

People talk about "not being entitled" to anything. Really? I think that everyone here is entitled to live a life free from domestic abuse, would anyone like to disagree? The OP is not the first to imply that there is something not quite right about subs/slaves who have "requirements." I doubt he will be the last. As Juliaoceania pointed out, why concentrate on profiles where you are quite obviously incompatible? Why even question it? Simply move on to the next, or the next and eventually someone will seem more suited to you. Like her, when I was looking, I went right past profiles that had negative comment. Why bother with them? They are good for a giggle and then you move on.

Ultimately, LA will find anything I say to be insulting and she will project her own issues onto me. I've grown quite used to it. I stand by my interpretation or some variant thereof. My career has been largely based on reading between the lines to see what the real issues are, and it is really quite rare for me to be off the mark. It is also more than likely one of the reasons the OP reacted in such an hostile manner. Even when asked to rephrase things by someone, he refused. I don't doubt that his arrogance and hostility carry over into his real life and is probablely the basis for his wonderments.

In the meantime, I will go and accept my entitled right to breathe, my entitled right to freedom of speech and my expectations that tomorrow the sun will rise and another day will come. If anyone wants to think I'm arrogant for believing I'm so entitled, then so be it.




LadyPact -> RE: "Expecting" a long term D/s relationship? (3/7/2010 7:10:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Would you have felt better if the terminology had been different?  Such as 'prefer' long term or 'only interested in' long term?  If someone is 'only willing to participate' in long term, I think that is something that should be stated up front.


Not to be splitting hairs LP, but if I were to state that I was only willing to participate in long term relationships, that would definitely be putting the cart before the horse. That to me would signify locking the relationship in for a set time.

I think, because we have no idea what the future can bring, and because it really takes a long time to know someone fully (that is, if we ever really do), the best we can do if a long term relationship is our goal is to be as honest as to who we are, what we want and act in a relationship-minded way. that is, when we find someone we meet, to stop dating others, focus on the one that interests us, etc. We also need to find people who are willing to act in a relationship-minded way.

When I look back at my last relationship, I know that we shared a really deep bond and love with one another. Had I listened properly to the cues he was giving me in the beginning however, I would have realised that circumstances made it that at that time in his life, he would not be capable of committing and that he could not be relationship-minded; he had far too many personal transitions to go through. I learned from this and now, I am careful when interacting with someone that appeals to me that he is in the right headspace to be engage in a relationship. Because all the love and lust in the world will not weather the inability, for whatever reason, to make an honest and solid commitment.

- LA


I think it depends on perspective.  I'm thinking of it more from the angle that there are just plain some folks out there who are NOT interested in BDSM unless it is within the confines of a long term relationship.  For some, there is no casual play, no play before commitment, etc.  Some people have no interest in it until a relationship is established.

Putting something to that effect into a person's profile may establish that from the beginning, and perhaps help them to eliminate situations where the partners just aren't in the position to commit.  While some people might be interested in enjoying each other for the moment, others don't want to spend the time on someone who, for whatever reasons, aren't good relationship material.




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