RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 6:51:48 PM)

Israel causes it's own problems, let it stand alone to sort out it's own problems, any support given, if found out, just adds fuel to the fires that power the engines against those who have no say in all this. i.e. the common people who just try to live as best they can, ignorant or not caring of international affairs, their existence is for themselves and that of their loved ones.

I will not support my country in defending Israel.



Smutmonger -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 6:53:24 PM)

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/466553



jlf1961 -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 7:04:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

The Zionists want to expand the land mass of Israel.

Such an expansion will take up portions of Iraq and Iran.




Regardless of what conspiracy site you may have gleaned this bit of misinformation, which is part of the standard white supremacist anti-jew rhetoric that has been going on since before you were born.



thompsonx -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 7:13:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
quote:

I don't think the religious leadership would hesitate in using nuclear weapons.


Muslems have had a nuke for a while and so far the only country to use nukes has been the U.S.
Rational thought processes would indicate that the U.S. is more likely to use them.



thompsonx -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 7:16:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I guess we will have to retaliate when they do what they said they will do. Destroy Israel.


Please show me where Iran said that they would destroy Israel.
I have mentioned several times that the actual words of the president of Iran were spoken for all to hear on 60 minutes. You on the other hand would rather believe what the mans enemies have told you he said.
Is this what passes for rational thought in your world?[/B]



JohnWarren -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 7:27:41 PM)

Jordan might have a problem with that.  If they go in via Syria then they are going to end up with one hell of a choke point. (exactly how Israel started out.  Look at the original map).  For countries surrounded by enemies, "hour-glass" is NOT the most attractive figure.



Kirata -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 8:03:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Yes, ignore a country whose leader has publicly stated on numerous occasions that he would like to see a nearby country removed from the face of the earth.

Not the country and its people, according to Global Research, but the [Zionist] "regime occupying Jerusalem."

Rumor of the Century

Excerpts:

Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's President has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map". Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made...

Before we get to the infamous remark, it's important to note that the "quote" in question was itself a quote— they are the words of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the father of the Islamic Revolution. Although he quoted Khomeini to affirm his own position on Zionism, the actual words belong to Khomeini and not Ahmadinejad. Thus, Ahmadinejad has essentially been credited (or blamed) for a quote that is not only unoriginal, but represents a viewpoint already in place well before he ever took office.

So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in farsi:

"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "Regime", pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).

So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh", is not contained anywhere in his original farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's President threatened to "wipe Israel off the map", despite never having uttered the words "map", "wipe out" or even "Israel".

The full quote translated directly to English:

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word translation:

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

Perhaps someone will be able to comment on the accuracy of this.

K.



Marc2b -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 8:14:20 PM)

quote:

Muslems have had a nuke for a while and so far the only country to use nukes has been the U.S.
Rational thought processes would indicate that the U.S. is more likely to use them.


There is no rational thought process in that at all. If an Irishman robs your house, does that mean Irishmen are more likely to rob your house?



thompsonx -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 8:15:23 PM)

quote:

Perhaps someone will be able to comment on the accuracy of this.


Your post was the sum and substance of the 60 minutes interview by Mike Wallace with the president of Iran.
Your candor in this matter is to be lauded.



thompsonx -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 8:23:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Muslems have had a nuke for a while and so far the only country to use nukes has been the U.S.
Rational thought processes would indicate that the U.S. is more likely to use them.


There is no rational thought process in that at all. If an Irishman robs your house, does that mean Irishmen are more likely to rob your house?


Your response is what is known as a "non sequitur".
The proper analogy would have been: if the Irish were the only people who had ever robbed houses then that would indicate that the Irish would most likely be the ones to rob another house.



Marc2b -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 8:56:42 PM)

quote:

Your response is what is known as a "non sequitur".
The proper analogy would have been: if the Irish were the only people who had ever robbed houses then that would indicate that the Irish would most likely be the ones to rob another house.


The American people today, in terms of their values and world outlook are very differnt than the American people back in 1945. The Obama Administration likewise faces a diferent world picture than the Tuman Administration faced. To state that because we used nuclear weapons (which are also very different today than then in terms of lethality, deliverability and even number) once means we are more likely to do so again simply doesn't wash. There are a lot of countries out there with nuclear weapons (in other words, its not just Irishmen who own a set of buglary tools) and they all have their own set of values and their own world outlook. All these factors have to be considered. You are dismising them and focusing on a "history" of once (against Japan) - which does not a pattern make.

Now if the United States had used nuclear weapons against four or five countries, then you might have an argument.



slvemike4u -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 9:06:01 PM)

And that almost(and I fully realise this might not have been your intention)sounds as if you are suggesting that the American people of the mid 40's were somehow deficient in both their values and their world outlook.Again I want to stress that this might not have been your intent....but it can be read as such.



thompsonx -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 9:08:17 PM)

quote:

Now if the United States had used nuclear weapons against four or five countries, then you might have an argument.


Well lets count them up.
Two on Japan.
Threatened both China and North Korea with them.
Threatened Cuba with them.
We spent about 50 years threatning Russia with them.
Every chairborn ranger on this forum has advocated using them for everything from illegal immigration to the sandbox.
So your portrayal of the U.S. as the benevolent thug with the ultimate stick as the least likely to use that stick just does not float in a rational body of thought.



thompsonx -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 9:10:35 PM)

quote:

The American people today, in terms of their values and world outlook are very differnt than the American people back in 1945.


Any imperical evidence for this purile claim?
Nothing has changed in a million plus years of human habitation on this rock.



slvemike4u -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/7/2010 9:23:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Now if the United States had used nuclear weapons against four or five countries, then you might have an argument.


Well lets count them up.
Dammit to hell Thompson,but this is getting tiresome....lets take these one at a time shall we.

Two on Japan.
I hope there is no need to mention we were at war?Nor that estimates at the time suggested that an invasion would have cost far more lives ,both civilian(Japanese) and military...from both sides.
Threatened both China and North Korea with them.
One might consider that engaging in war with a nuclear power is to be "threatened" with nukes....whats your point?
Threatened Cuba with them
During the missile crisis?...When Cuba had allowed installation of Russian Nukes?...again whats your point?

We spent about 50 years threatning Russia with them.
While they in turn spent 50 years threatening us.....again whats your point?
Every chairborn ranger on this forum has advocated using them for everything from illegal immigration to the sandbox.
More of your simple bullshit!
So your portrayal of the U.S. as the benevolent thug with the ultimate stick as the least likely to use that stick just does not float in a rational body of thought.
And just what the fuck would you know about rational thoughts?



LadyAngelika -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/8/2010 3:55:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
quote:

I don't think the religious leadership would hesitate in using nuclear weapons.


Muslems have had a nuke for a while and so far the only country to use nukes has been the U.S.
Rational thought processes would indicate that the U.S. is more likely to use them.


Indeed. Though this risk has gone down considerably with the Obama administration. After the previous administration destroyed Iraq, I would have put nothing past that war criminal Cheney.

- LA



thompsonx -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/8/2010 7:33:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Now if the United States had used nuclear weapons against four or five countries, then you might have an argument.


Well lets count them up.
Dammit to hell Thompson,but this is getting tiresome....lets take these one at a time shall we.

OK with me you seem to like being spanked in public

Two on Japan.
I hope there is no need to mention we were at war?Nor that estimates at the time suggested that an invasion would have cost far more lives ,both civilian(Japanese) and military...from both sides.

Read "The Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire" by John Toland. In it he documents the repeated efforts by the Japanese government to surrender starting in 1943.



Threatened both China and North Korea with them.
One might consider that engaging in war with a nuclear power is to be "threatened" with nukes....whats your point?


Just to bring you up to speed we were not at war with China.
We attacked North Korea not vise versa.

Threatened Cuba with them
During the missile crisis?...When Cuba had allowed installation of Russian Nukes?...again whats your point?

Cuba is a soverign nation not the bitch of the U.S.
You do remember that the U.S. had only recently invaded Cuba (Bay of Pigs).
This is pretty old news but you seem not to know about why the missiles were put there.
We had nukes in Turkey and this was Russia's way of letting us know that they were feeling a little put upon.
The quid pro quo was that we took our missiles out of Turkey and they took their missiles out of Cuba.
They did not reposses the tactical nukes that are still in Cuba.

We spent about 50 years threatning Russia with them.
While they in turn spent 50 years threatening us.....again whats your point?

You need to do a little research.
You might want to start by learning about the "Truman Doctrin". Then you might want to read Chomsky's rebuttle.

Every chairborn ranger on this forum has advocated using them for everything from illegal immigration to the sandbox.
More of your simple bullshit!

Simple yes bullshit no

So your portrayal of the U.S. as the benevolent thug with the ultimate stick as the least likely to use that stick just does not float in a rational body of thought.
And just what the fuck would you know about rational thoughts?

Is it rational for you to have a discussion with someone who is not?





Marc2b -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/8/2010 8:15:54 AM)

quote:

So your portrayal of the U.S. as the benevolent thug with the ultimate stick as the least likely to use that stick just does not float in a rational body of thought.


Where did I say least likely? 



Marc2b -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/8/2010 8:23:04 AM)

quote:

Any imperical evidence for this purile claim?
Nothing has changed in a million plus years of human habitation on this rock.


The underlying human nature has not changed much but the ways we express that nature change greatly.

If you seriously believe that the American people have remained stagnant in their values and world view over the last sixty years then your hatred of all things American has truly blinded you worse than I thought.   



Moonhead -> RE: Iran begins production of cruise missiles (3/8/2010 8:27:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

The American people today, in terms of their values and world outlook are very differnt than the American people back in 1945.


Any imperical evidence for this purile claim?
Nothing has changed in a million plus years of human habitation on this rock.

How many Americans in 1945 had even heard of the shi'ite branch of Islam?
You're all terrified of people with half a beard now. That strikes me as a bit of change.



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