RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/8/2010 10:10:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

under the pretext of "liberating" us from backward Christianity and oversexualization of women



Do you really think that is the reason we invaded Afghanistan...on a pretext?

I believe we did it for the very reason we stated... I don't know about you but I had no idea how they treated their women or cared about their religion. I only cared about their harboring of terrorists that killed 3,000 people.

But I do wish we had gone in full force...captured or destroyed the terrorist then left them to their own civil war. We did have that right to defend ourselves but not the right to try and change their way of life.

But as I said above we are there now like it or not so can we just turn a blind eye while we are there?

Butch




Termyn8or -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/8/2010 10:37:27 PM)

"The US invaded Afghanistan with a simple "do not fuck with us" message and the intent to kick some AQ ass. Everything else was window dressing. "

My ass. Tell me just what Afghanistan did to get fucked with. EXACTLY. They did nothing to us, in fact I am not sure they ever have.

What did Iraq do ?

And on the table now for the sheeple, just what did Iran do ?

You better fucking wake up and soon. Russia, I know for a fact will ally itself with Iran. What's more, when the shit hits the fan our buddy Israel is going to be in the hot seat. We are talking WW3 here folks. If we don't stop it nobody will.

Get the point ?

T

Fukin gotta tell some people everything.




Brain -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/8/2010 11:15:17 PM)

We are not conservative enough for Islam.

Why So Many Terrorists Get Their Start as Engineers


(Dec. 29) -- Of all the biographical details that have emerged about the Nigerian man who allegedly tried to blow up a Northwest Airlines jet on Christmas, perhaps the least surprising -- at least to those who study these things -- is what he studied in college.

The terrorist suspect, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, earned a degree in mechanical engineering from University College London in 2008, just over a year before he tried to demonstrate his skills by detonating an explosive device aboard the Detroit-bound plane. Among violent Islamic extremists, that puts him in familiar company. Indeed, the propensity toward engineering studies is an aspect of the terrorist profile that has drawn increased scrutiny of late from scholars, who have been advancing theories about the high correlation between the two.

In a study published this year, European sociologists Diego Gambetta and Steffen Hertog researched more than 400 known violent jihadists since the 1970s, including the 25 men involved with the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Nearly half were known to have received some level of higher education, and of those, 44 percent were engineers -- including eight of the 9/11 plotters and hijackers. Engineering was by far the most popular field; the percentage of terrorists who had pursued it was more than twice as high as the second-place field, Islamic studies.

"The bottom line is that while the probability of a Muslim engineer becoming a violent Islamist is minuscule, it is still between three and four times that for other graduates," Gambetta wrote in an article in the New Scientist that summarized the pair's findings, which were published in August in the European Journal of Sociology.

So what makes engineers more likely to become terrorists? The most obvious theory is their technical expertise; al-Qaida and other terror groups need to recruit people who can make bombs. But Gambetta and Hertog say that doesn't explain the overlap. Their study found that engineers serve the terrorist organizations they join in many more capacities than making or deploying explosives. A significant number held higher-level posts that didn't directly involve their engineering training at all.

The authors instead conclude that the phenomenon is explained by a combination of mindset and professional circumstance. Citing studies finding that engineers as a group are more politically conservative than other professions, Gambetta and Hertog write that engineers by nature are more likely to be drawn to the kind of rigid, hierarchical worldviews that radical Islam provides: Their governing mentality "inclines them to take more extreme conservative and religious positions everywhere." What's more, although engineering is considered an elite profession in Middle Eastern countries, the region's job market for engineers dried up during the economic crises of the 1970s and '80s, frustrating that era's recent graduates and driving them to radicalize.

Not surprisingly, the engineering community in the U.S. is decidedly cool to the suggestion that their profession breeds terrorists. "It's baffling," said Larry Jacobson, the executive director of the National Society of Professional Engineers, which counts about 45,000 members across the country. "There's got to be some big difference between what goes on in the U.S. and what goes on in other countries."

Jacobson agrees with the notion that engineers are a politically conservative bunch, but not the type of conservative that tips over into radicalism. American engineers, he said, "just don't take risks. ... The hard-wiring of engineers makes them very cautious."

Defending the profession's contribution to national security, Jacobson also noted that engineers across a range of specialties "become the government's first defense against terrorism."

Still, he did give some credit to al-Qaida and its ilk for the logic of its HR strategy: "If I was to recruit terrorists, engineers would be the first guys I'd want."

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/why-so-many-terrorists-get-their-start-as-engineers/19296112
 



quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

It seems in our western ways we are now a target for the terrorist, now more so than ever before,  why ?

Why is it we are a target ?

What have we done to become a target ?

How can we stop it ?






ReverendJim -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/8/2010 11:24:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

There is not really such a thing as a terrorist.  Merely  retaliatory people who had something of value swindled from them.



Well spoken. One man's "Terrorist" is another man's "Freedom Fighter"




Termyn8or -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/8/2010 11:25:23 PM)

OK, I am not an engineer. I just happen to know how to design and build things. OK ?

T




jlf1961 -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/8/2010 11:32:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"The US invaded Afghanistan with a simple "do not fuck with us" message and the intent to kick some AQ ass. Everything else was window dressing. "

My ass. Tell me just what Afghanistan did to get fucked with. EXACTLY. They did nothing to us, in fact I am not sure they ever have.


The answer is simple, they were harboring and giving sanctuary to Al Qaeda training camps and Osama Bin Laden.

The Taliban was given the opportunity to take the terrorists into custody and turn them over to US officials. They chose not to do so, and the rest is history. First it was air and cruise missile strikes, followed by ground operations, all done with UN approval.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
What did Iraq do ?


Nothing, Karl Rove has recently came out as saying that the Bush Administration even knew that there were no WMD's, and the "Al Qaeda" link was just as false.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
And on the table now for the sheeple, just what did Iran do ?


Iran is continuing to develop the technology for nuclear weapons. If you had been following the situation on something other than the conservative media, you would understand that the sanctions being discussed are UN based and not US based.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
You better fucking wake up and soon. Russia, I know for a fact will ally itself with Iran. What's more, when the shit hits the fan our buddy Israel is going to be in the hot seat. We are talking WW3 here folks. If we don't stop it nobody will.

Get the point ?

T

Fukin gotta tell some people everything.





Termyn8or -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 12:00:34 AM)

jlf, they didn't harbor AQ, they created it, and you and I would do no less if faced with the same circumstances, in fact I would do more if possible.

But then actually the CIA started most of these groups, like a bunch of assholes as usual they used our own money against us, which gave them the chance to use our own money.............

Nevermind, if you don't know by now you never will.

T




rulemylife -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 12:26:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

My ass. Tell me just what Afghanistan did to get fucked with. EXACTLY. They did nothing to us, in fact I am not sure they ever have.


They EXACTLY gave sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden, the head of a terrorist organization.

They EXACTLY allowed that organization to recruit and train their members under the protection of the government.


quote:


Fukin gotta tell some people everything.


Yeah, I know what you mean!




JonnieBoy -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 1:51:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

My ass. Tell me just what Afghanistan did to get fucked with. EXACTLY. They did nothing to us, in fact I am not sure they ever have.


They EXACTLY gave sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden, the head of a terrorist organization.

They EXACTLY allowed that organization to recruit and train their members under the protection of the government.


quote:


Fukin gotta tell some people everything.


Yeah, I know what you mean!



Which governments exactly trained and armed the Afghans ? ... not ever the UK or the USA ?

Pirate




GotSteel -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 5:49:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Israel yet. America's unstinting and unfailing support of that genocidal bunch of fuckwits is one of the main reasons you people are so hated in the middle east, after all.

[8|] If the USA was situated where Israel is the rest of the middle east would be bombed flat and paved over by now.




Moonhead -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 6:21:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

jlf, they didn't harbor AQ, they created it, and you and I would do no less if faced with the same circumstances, in fact I would do more if possible.

But then actually the CIA started most of these groups, like a bunch of assholes as usual they used our own money against us, which gave them the chance to use our own money.............

Nevermind, if you don't know by now you never will.

T

Strictly speaking, the CIA set up the Mujahadeen, which evolved into Taliban after the Russians left the country and funding was cut off. The Taliban's as much a Pakistani thing as it's Afghan. That's why most of the trouble is around the border.




Moonhead -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 6:24:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

quote:

The IRA were always more interested in causing property damage than killing people


No, they've been pretty interested in killing people. I just saw 50 Dead Men Walking. It gave a lot of info on how they were running things over on their own turf. They were not very nice. I confess that my knowledge of the IRA is limited to films. History isn't really my area of expertise.

Apart from the Good Friday atrocity, they'd normally phone in a warning first. They have killed a lot of people, but they tended to target the Police and the military during the troubles, rather than civilians. (Though they weren't all that fussed if a few English people did get blown up in Birmingham or Manchester.)




thornhappy -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 7:00:31 AM)

And exactly how do they make money off it?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"There is no way around the fact that the Muslim religion today is easy to manipulate to produce fanatics. This great religion has been bastardized by ambitious megalomaniacs warping the teachings of God to convince the gullible, sick, and hopeless, to kill themselves and innocent others for their personal gain."

Butch, who makes money off of this shit ? We know. Can't say it.

You know it really doesn't bother me all that much that this is true, what bothers me is the fact that we can't say it.

T




Kirata -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 7:04:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Surely an unreasonable action doesn't deserve a reasonable response?

That would depend on whose standards you choose to guide your choice of action, your own or somebody else's -- unless, of course, there isn't really much difference.

K.




thornhappy -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 7:08:18 AM)

We're not uniformly conservative and rigid in our thinking.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

We are not conservative enough for Islam.

Why So Many Terrorists Get Their Start as Engineers




Moonhead -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 7:10:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

We're not uniformly conservative and rigid in our thinking.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

We are not conservative enough for Islam.

Why So Many Terrorists Get Their Start as Engineers


And we let women vote, drive and speak for themselves: the bitches even get to show their faces in public if they want. Small wonder God hates us...




Aneirin -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 8:17:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Israel yet. America's unstinting and unfailing support of that genocidal bunch of fuckwits is one of the main reasons you people are so hated in the middle east, after all.

[8|] If the USA was situated where Israel is the rest of the middle east would be bombed flat and paved over by now.


If Israel was not backed by the US and other interested parties, we might not be having the problems we are having.

Come on, think about it, plonking a Jewish state in amongst Moslem states was not very wise thinking was it, it was bound to cause problems.

Is it true many of the immigrants that  now move into Israel originate in the US, perhaps retire to there ?




Smutmonger -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 9:07:58 AM)

Probably because we are exploitative war mongers.




ShadowSide -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 9:23:22 AM)

To piggyback from others:

America and its allies makes itself a target by being in everyone's business. It's only a few people that like imperialism/capitalism/manifest destiny, the rest of us are waiting for the dominoes to fall.

"We" can stop it by doing just the opposite and not being in everyone's business, but its too late for that.




Lucienne -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 9:54:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I don't know about you but I had no idea how they treated their women or cared about their religion. I only cared about their harboring of terrorists that killed 3,000 people.


I knew. The dynamiting of the Buddhas of Bamyan didn't carry the body count of 9/11 but it was one of the most breathtaking assaults on... civilization that I've encountered in my lifetime. The potential for cold destruction of humanity demonstrated in that act certainly woke me the fuck up to what the Taliban was up to.

quote:

But I do wish we had gone in full force...captured or destroyed the terrorist then left them to their own civil war. We did have that right to defend ourselves but not the right to try and change their way of life.


Prior to engaging in the more philosophical consideration of whether or not we have the right to change their way of life, I find it useful to consider the extent of our ability to change their way of life in a constructive fashion. We've certainly changed their way of life in terms of previously they didn't have drone assaults on wedding parties.

quote:

But as I said above we are there now like it or not so can we just turn a blind eye while we are there?


Of course we can. Why the hell are we there now anyway? I'm quite certain we're not capable of establishing a lasting government that respects the human rights of women. And I'm completely clueless as to how the citizens of the country feel about the cost of our continuing presence there (in terms of destabilization and destruction) versus whatever benefit they are seeing. What the population wants is going to necessarily limit what we can accomplish. That the natives have no apparent part in the conversation makes me suspicious that claims of promoting human rights are just self-indulgent wankery on our parts.






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