RE: The terrorist, what creates it ?

RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 10:18:38 AM)
Just wondering if you have ever read the history of the area? The UK is the country that made this mess. The US had little to do with it...In fact the US backed the independence of the Arab states. How do you determine who has the right to the land? It was the Jews homeland for 2, 400 years before an invading Arab army forcibly took possession in 600 AD and practiced ethnic cleansing on the Jewish inhabitants. If the Palestinians had not backed Nazism they would still be in control of the area. History means little to those living on the land today and they must realize the other will not be going away anytime soon. They have a choice...learn to live with each other and prosper or continue killing each other and live in fear. There are plenty of faults on both sides of the issue but it is counter productive to use history to determine who has the right to be there…they both do. Butch

kdsub -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 10:27:59 AM)
We seem to agree on some things but not others...you talk of accidentally bombing a wedding party I can talk of bombing girls schools and throwing acid in the faces of little girls that only want to learn to read...We could go on and on back and forth atrocity on atrocity...I would win…There is no comparison between our forces and the Taliban when it comes to savagery. What do you think would happen if we walked away from Afghanistan today? Butch

Lucienne -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 11:00:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub We seem to agree on some things but not others...you talk of accidentally bombing a wedding party I can talk of bombing girls schools and throwing acid in the faces of little girls that only want to learn to read...We could go on and on back and forth atrocity on atrocity...I would win…There is no comparison between our forces and the Taliban when it comes to savagery. You're not a very disciplined thinker. It's sort of frustrating to watch you flit around between points. I don't understand why you took my comments as an invitation to compare the degree of savagery of the Taliban and US forces. Or why you'd think someone who considers blowing up inanimate objects an assault on civilization would be interested in arguing that throwing acid in the faces of little girls (for whatever reason, really) isn't profoundly fucked up. But now that you've declared yourself the winner of an unnecessary argument about the relative savagery of the two groups, how do you see that supporting your larger concern? Do you think that having wedding parties bombed is the cost the Afghan people pay in order to be free of the Taliban throwing acid in the face of little girls?

Termyn8or -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 11:03:22 AM)
Using FR Shadow has it dead right, it is too late to turn back. Many of us would like to turn back the hands of time and do things differently. Perhaps in our next life we won't be so stupid. While I may get a bit wreckless from time to time, I normally have one thing in the back of my mind before I do something; is it undoable or not ? Whateer can't be undone deserves alot more consideration. But really now what do we do ? I'm sure we could ease the tensions by simply turning a couple of countries into glass parking lots, but is that the best we can come up with ? Let's actually consider that, but this time put Israel on the table, the chopping block so to speak. All the Arabs would suddenly love us, gas would be a quarter a gallon. There would be peace in the middle east and we would save trillions of dollars. Instead of threatening Iran for nothing, we could help them develop bombs, confident that they would not use them on us. Russia would be our ally and all this money saved could go for a new, joint space program. We could discover more of the universe. But that simply is not going to happen. Religious assholes who support Israel to the core are the same motherfuckers that see us as defective, because of kink or whatever other sexual proclivity. They do indeed control most of the world. One does not go without the other. How's your point of view now ? The exact same people are involved. Arabs are indeed backwards when it comes to certain things, but their intelligence services are developing at an alarming rate. They are learning from the Mossad and our own CIA and so forth. They are getting good, good enough to get a triple agent into the CIA. They are becoming more and more formidable as time goes by, and they have numbers. Many numbers. Just how many Arabs do you think there are ? Additionally how many people are out there (or sitting right here in my room) who understand their plight, and what is really going on and refuse to commit to the powers that be ? It is only a matter of time, WW3 is going to happen, and you can consider that your tax dollars at work. Personally, if I were King the Balfour declaration would've never happened. Let them commit genocide and take over a land just like we did. Succeed or fail. I guess the French did help us, but that was a long time ago and we still did it largely on our own. I am goddam proud to not be a taxpayer, because I can look an Arab in the eye and say "I didn't do it". T

kdsub -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 11:49:53 AM)
I thought you were not into comparing savagery... Accidental acts are a far cry from purposeful ones. But I will answer your question directly...rather than you who ignore mine. No it is not acceptable to accidentally bomb wedding parties...and I’m sure that is not the only mistake we have made in the war or will make in the future…Hell we occasionally kill our own people in accidents. But can anyone fight a war without these kinds of mistakes? No… war is not like video games it is serious business and people die innocents too. We try to avoid civilian casualties…do the Taliban? Now I answered yours will you answer mine? Butch

kdsub -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 11:56:39 AM)
T... I agree we need to reevaluate our stance in the Middle East...but it needs to start from a fresh perspective on both sides... not just Israel. They have just as much right to exist as do the Palestinians...right is right and the hell with the price of gas. Butch

NorthernGent -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 12:57:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShadowSide America and its allies makes itself a target by being in everyone's business. Yeah....they're the like the flat mates you really don't need......"sorry did I smash all your possessions?....I didn't realise they were yours.......I'll replace them sometime.........with my stuff".

NorthernGent -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 1:04:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Believe me I do understand and agree with what you are saying to a point...but we are there now right or wrong... If you were in charge could you turn a blind eye? I would struggle with that answer and try to remain as neutral as I could be… BUT… I would not allow the violation of basic human rights. Butch - that's the weakest argument you could possibly offer......."we're there now - so we need to help"......translated as shifting the argument away from the crux of the matter - landing on someone uninvited. In essence though it's pretty much the same line - "we need to save them". In every day life there are plenty of people who spend a lot of time running round trying to save people - and in my experience they forget to save those who really need to get to their act together: themselves (but then that's the objective isn't it).

NorthernGent -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 1:11:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Surely an unreasonable action doesn't deserve a reasonable response? That would depend on whose standards you choose to guide your choice of action, your own or somebody else's -- unless, of course, there isn't really much difference. K. When needs must. And there's no chance of me arm wrestling some huge bloke for my own home. I'll poison his cat or something if that's what it takes. The law is there to resolve disagreements between individuals/nations - when your opponent breaks the rules and the rule of law can't save you then what options are left open to you?

Lucienne -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 1:41:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I thought you were not into comparing savagery... Accidental acts are a far cry from purposeful ones. But I will answer your question directly...rather than you who ignore mine. hmm... as an aside, we didn't accidentally kill people, it was the intent to kill people, we just accidentally killed the wrong people. If some member of the Taliban accidentally threw acid in the face of a little boy on his way to school, I'm not sure you'd be sympathetic to an argument that it's not so bad because he was aiming for a little girl. quote: No it is not acceptable to accidentally bomb wedding parties...and I’m sure that is not the only mistake we have made in the war or will make in the future…Hell we occasionally kill our own people in accidents. But can anyone fight a war without these kinds of mistakes? No… war is not like video games it is serious business and people die innocents too. We try to avoid civilian casualties…do the Taliban? Now I answered yours will you answer mine? You didn't directly answer my question at all. I didn't ask if bombing weddings was acceptable. I asked if you consider incidents like that to be a "cost" for the "benefit" of preventing the mutilation of school girls. I you do, that would explain why you went the route of comparing the savagery of the two acts. Personally, I'm not convinced that the one has much to do with the other. You seem to be arguing (in a rather cliched fashion) that, yes, war is hell but that the damage we inflict is less than the damage we prevent from happening. Is this an accurate assessment of your position? Or are you just arguing that we're morally better than the Taliban in general? Something else? Your questions skip around a lot. My ignoring them is an attempt to keep the discussion relatively grounded. I don't know that we even disagree that much, it's just difficult to tell when you're jumping off to the next cliched defense or attack of the US invasion.

kdsub -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 2:53:35 PM)
I did not mean to shift anything NG...we had a right to defend ourselves...we needed to be in Afghanistan not Iraq. If they did not want us to come then they should not of harbored and supported terrorists that indiscriminately killed Americans ...plain and simple. Now that we are there I think we should respect their mores but should we let them kill and maim when we have the ability to stop it. When we leave do as they please. Butch

kdsub -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 2:55:25 PM)
Discussions are two way streets... Have a good evening

GotSteel -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/9/2010 7:43:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Israel yet. America's unstinting and unfailing support of that genocidal bunch of fuckwits is one of the main reasons you people are so hated in the middle east, after all. [8\|] If the USA was situated where Israel is the rest of the middle east would be bombed flat and paved over by now. If Israel was not backed by the US and other interested parties, we might not be having the problems we are having. Come on, think about it, plonking a Jewish state in amongst Moslem states was not very wise thinking was it, it was bound to cause problems. I'm not sure it was so much "plonking" as recognizing the reality that the Jewish population of central Europe migrated there after WWII despite the British efforts to prevent them. But either way I was actually responding to the "genocidal bunch of fuckwits" comment.

JonnieBoy -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/10/2010 2:12:23 AM)
Stop being pissed off (pissed in US English) and tell me WHO the "terrorist" is here ? Maim him/her ... then name him/her ... or even just kil him/ her, but stop fucking bleating about it and ID your target ... then do the job you proclaim to be capable of. Shouldn't be difficult ...now should it ? (unless someone is bulshitting) Pirate

Lucienne -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/10/2010 9:16:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Discussions are two way streets... Have a good evening People are funny. I suppose you feel quite dignified in that response. As opposed to, I dunno... actually clarifying your point when asked or trying to stay on the topic that you introduced.

GotSteel -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/10/2010 3:35:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne As opposed to, I dunno... actually clarifying your point when asked or trying to stay on the topic that you introduced. I don't understand why he's incapable of doing that, does anyone have an explanation?

Termyn8or -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/10/2010 5:33:23 PM)
Using FR "Maim him/her ... then name him/her ... or even just kil him/ her, but stop fucking bleating about it and ID your target ... then do the job you proclaim to be capable of" Gotta like this guy. Say it out loud. We can be nastier than the whole lot of them and level their puny corner of the planet. It is time to stop pussyfooting around. I can be nastier than they, and if pressed I will. Just the things our government has done, if you know, would make your balls fall off. We are extremely ruthless people. And I might even be better. If we can just accept it and kill to our heart's delight, then we can move on. So what if we leave a fourth of the world uninhabitable ? We don't care and never have. So why do we fuck around with this stupid situation for so long, putting our fingers in pies all over the world instead of taking care of business once and for all ? I think there are two reasons. One, our tongue is still in a certain country's ass, and will remain there until the structure of power breaks down. Two, contrary to popular belief, popular belief is wrong. US citizen are under the impression that we are benevolent liberators spreading democracy around the world to the joyous rejoicement of the downtrodden citizens all over the place, while nothing could be farther from the truth. At least the TV says so. And don't forget that it is a mad mad mad mad world. Those people are pissed off, and unfortunately for us, they are as fucking nuts as we are. And they got good reason to be. Harsh ? Yes. Truth ? Yes. But I think that if a wild animal is about to eat you alive I should at least try to wake you up first. T

JonnieBoy -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/10/2010 7:50:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Just wondering if you have ever read the history of the area? The UK is the country that made this mess. The US had little to do with it...In fact the US backed the independence of the Arab states. Err ... let's ger this straight fucktard ... you mean "England is the country" ... no ? quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub How do you determine who has the right to the land? It was the Jews homeland for 2, 400 years before an invading Arab army forcibly took possession in 600 AD and practiced ethnic cleansing on the Jewish inhabitants. Rubbish ... the "Jews" at that point in history were not murderous warmongering animals and notwithstanding ... were not rent boys to a USA that did not at that time exist quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub If the Palestinians had not backed Nazism they would still be in control of the area. Struth ... that's truly sick. I blame England for warped thinking like that, because without her ... you'd be fucking dead and therefore you should be grateful for the gift she gave you to talk such shite. quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub History means little to those living on the land today and they must realize the other will not be going away anytime soon. They have a choice...learn to live with each other and prosper or continue killing each other and live in fear. Write wharever "history" you want ... count the dead and start thinking about the truth. Who, exactly, is "they" ? and how do "they" fit in to an allegedly peaceful solution ? quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub There are plenty of faults on both sides Agreed Pirate

subfever -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/10/2010 8:31:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: subfever Of course, the masses are stuck in their fairy-tale perception of reality, and still don't realize that the "government" is a mere tool for the banking and corporate interests... who together create boogiemen to keep us living in fear. How exactly can you be sure that you aren't the one living in a fairy tale perception of reality? There is no single source of truth anyone here can point to. All we can do is observe, and draw rational conclusions based upon our observations. Not everyone has the same perception and reasoning skills. Also, the less emotionally and financially vested we are in our perception of reality, the more rational our conclusions are likely to be. quote: quote: ORIGINAL: subfever Persistent meddling, encroachment, and exploitation. I'm not sure that it's so simple, for instance how would those issues effect this American? [image]local://upfiles/566126/9DDCA40F2CB049A387BDF9F24C2BF14F.jpg[/image] I cannot possibly know the mind of this young man. Nor can I possibly know with any degree of certainty, that the information reported by the media has been 100% accurate and complete. One could surmise or reject that he was a politically astute fellow, who became so disgusted with the persistent meddling, encroachment, and exploitation of the US, that he decided to convert. I haven’t followed his story in-depth, but unless we actually see him fully interviewed, and not under duress, we’ll never know for sure. However, you are right that it isn’t always as simple as (restricted to) meddling, encroachment, and exploitation. As others have mentioned since my last post… nutcases, abject poverty, and religious zealots do exist. Of course, they don’t only exist in the ME. It seems rational to assume that removing meddling, encroachment and exploitation from the equation would also remove the gravitational allure of terrorist acts. I don't expect that those who entertain the notion that “they hate us for our freedom and everything we stand for” will agree. Of course, removing meddling, encroachment and exploitation from the equation wouldn’t prevent false flag/provocateur operations.

subfever -> RE: The terrorist, what creates it ? (3/10/2010 8:44:50 PM)
quote: ...there's no chance of me arm wrestling some huge bloke for my own home. I'll poison his cat or something if that's what it takes. The law is there to resolve disagreements between individuals/nations - when your opponent breaks the rules and the rule of law can't save you then what options are left open to you? It seems we can typically count on you for concise rationality.

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