Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (Full Version)

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beej -> Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/8/2010 9:46:41 PM)

[ranty warning]

since i've in the lifestyle, my dom has started to get to know my friends and associates. we haven't hidden our kink, so there have been questions and lots of responses. in particular, two friends have revealed things to me that they hadn't before, i guess because now i'm That Chick Who Embraces Fringe Things. in listening to them, i realized that they are both passive aggressive and part of why they were opening up to me is that they now see me as being strong somehow.

so the one friend revealed that she has really low self esteem, and she talked me up for hours about how she's a virgin at nearly thirty and how she's scared of men. she explained how she was traumatized by men in the past, but all of her stories were from summer camp and college. she went on and on about this one dude in particular who she was sure had loved her but he never expressed it/pursued it. and i told her plainly that he'd just been an ass who took her time and feelings and used them how he wanted to because she let him. she preferred to spare her ego by calling it love, so i let it go.

tonight, she texts me saying that the asshole had texted her. she told him that she was going through some difficult things, and he asked if those things were "because she was still fat" as i guess she had been in college. in the text, my friend called him an "asshole" and a "bastard" and said that he was trying to call her. assuming that she was turning to me for help, i tried to talk her out of the nonsense of taking a call from a guy who had just pissed her off such that she was texting me to vent her unhappiness. she let me play therapist for about five minutes before she said, "i wasn't really angry. i mean, he hasn't been like this to me recently before this." realizing that i had already wasted enough time trying to save this chick from herself, i said, "okay then. this will sound rude but you shouldn't text vaguely humorous comments in which you call a guy an 'asshole' and a 'bastard' to my phone when i know that you have self esteem issues. When it is serious, text me. otherwise, save that shit for twitter." she backed off fast with a bunch of apologies. i could practically hear her knees scraping the ground from four states away.

i'm trying to convince myself that i was right to kick her in the teeth or that it may help her somehow, but maybe i don't want to be bothered with her anymore and i'm just trying to justify it. what say you?



thepillowdreamer -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/8/2010 9:52:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beej
what say you?


i say you were being a good friend. if your friendship's strong enough for it to handle you more or less telling her that you're not there to be her therapist, then she'll get the hint.

if not then hopefully that's less weight on your shoulders, because that sounds like a whole lot of high school drama right there. ...and the whole "her going to therapy" thing. because that'd be pretty rad either way.



came4U -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/8/2010 10:02:49 PM)

Uhhg, I feel for ya.

I knew a women, and her endless problems. She asked of me if she could call every day at a certain time--to keep her sane. I agreed. Bad move. Anyhoo, she tells of her different nutty situations (bf who is useless one day, annoying the next, her mental issues, doctors, shrinks and medications). She asks for advice, I spend 35 mins at least telling her what to do. Her bf, I pretty well tell her that it has been 15 years of him living across the hall from her in an apt. building and he obviously will never change, bla bla, she asked what she can do because she felt she was going crazy and I cannot be on call 24/7. I spent the time to look up local numbers of hospitals and telephone distress centers that she can call 'just to talk'. By the next day, everything I told her, all the work I do in helping, she dismisses it. 'Oh, its ok, I don't want those numbers' kinda thing. Eventually, I couldn't take it any more. It was pointless., she just wanted to air her laundry and obviously had no intent on changing a thing. I told her, what I just said here. 'I give you advice and all you do is continue the same pattern day after day and waste my time and I've had enough, please do not call anymore'. CLICK

Boy, the stress went from my life and fast. Sometimes people need to be TOLD. Some people remain being lambs and it is not our responsibility to herd them safely every night into life's safey barn.

If it were a family member, it would be a different story, but yanno, it gets to the point that if a so-called friend is a continuous burden, that friend is not much of a friend at all.




Icarys -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/8/2010 10:11:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beej

[ranty warning]

since i've in the lifestyle, my dom has started to get to know my friends and associates. we haven't hidden our kink, so there have been questions and lots of responses. in particular, two friends have revealed things to me that they hadn't before, i guess because now i'm That Chick Who Embraces Fringe Things. in listening to them, i realized that they are both passive aggressive and part of why they were opening up to me is that they now see me as being strong somehow.

so the one friend revealed that she has really low self esteem, and she talked me up for hours about how she's a virgin at nearly thirty and how she's scared of men. she explained how she was traumatized by men in the past, but all of her stories were from summer camp and college. she went on and on about this one dude in particular who she was sure had loved her but he never expressed it/pursued it. and i told her plainly that he'd just been an ass who took her time and feelings and used them how he wanted to because she let him. she preferred to spare her ego by calling it love, so i let it go.

tonight, she texts me saying that the asshole had texted her. she told him that she was going through some difficult things, and he asked if those things were "because she was still fat" as i guess she had been in college. in the text, my friend called him an "asshole" and a "bastard" and said that he was trying to call her. assuming that she was turning to me for help, i tried to talk her out of the nonsense of taking a call from a guy who had just pissed her off such that she was texting me to vent her unhappiness. she let me play therapist for about five minutes before she said, "i wasn't really angry. i mean, he hasn't been like this to me recently before this." realizing that i had already wasted enough time trying to save this chick from herself, i said, "okay then. this will sound rude but you shouldn't text vaguely humorous comments in which you call a guy an 'asshole' and a 'bastard' to my phone when i know that you have self esteem issues. When it is serious, text me. otherwise, save that shit for twitter." she backed off fast with a bunch of apologies. i could practically hear her knees scraping the ground from four states away.

i'm trying to convince myself that i was right to kick her in the teeth or that it may help her somehow, but maybe i don't want to be bothered with her anymore and i'm just trying to justify it. what say you?

Personally If you think you might have been too harsh on her. I'd say go back and apologize and explain to her that you meant no harm..

Try to put yourself i  her shoes..She's someone that already has low self-esteem and someone who she's turned to has jumped on her. I'm not trying to make you feel bad. Just saying I can see a possible side from her view and yours.

Sometimes showing her some tough love and then showing her the softer side as well will give a person strength. If she persists and doesn't get better then it's just a drama fest.

I don't buy into the whole tough love only approach. Good luck.



Termyn8or -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/8/2010 11:43:47 PM)

beej, you responded in the fashion you saw fit. If I assume correctly you were not drunk or high at the time right ? Therefore your response was as intended. If it didn't work maybe you should get out the steel toed boots and show people what steel can do to teeth.

I am not kidding. Your advice is YOUR advice, and if they don't like it they can ask someone else. They could also just leave and go fuck themselves. You owe them nothing. You do not owe anyone anything, except maybe if you are paying off a car or a house. That is not the case here.

Did you possibly post this because you are, like me, getting sick of these fucking whiney hineys all over the place ? Those with a sense of entitlement as I have to go to work type of attitude ? People who think that you exist solely to solve the problems they create in their own lives ?

If so I am right there with ya. Fukum.

T



LadyAngelika -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 1:31:22 AM)

quote:

what say you?


While I try to be a good friend to the people I care about, I'm not a fan of drama. My really close friends, and there is only a handful of those, are pretty grounded people. The rest are acquaintances. If they are going to invade my life with drama, then I'm going to keep them at bay.

- LA



ResidentSadist -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 3:21:48 AM)

I thought you were rather polite and kinda' soft on her. You didn't insult her even thuogh she was disrespecting your time with meaningless drivel in the guise of a dramatic crisis. Instead, you gave her a constructive path (twitter) to focus her rude time wasting behaviour in the future.

You could have been more honest. You could have told she was acting like an imature highschool girl that needed to be deflowered because unreleased hormones were clogging her tiny brain. You could have been rude and given her my number telling her I was a violent but effective cure for her virginity... and that 3 weeks in my cage would help her examine and fix any of her personality problems.

[:)]



DarkSteven -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 3:30:00 AM)

To be honest, I don't see her situation as getting better.  I just see whether you get involved or not in her drama.

I'm kinda shocked that you would come out to vanillas so readily.  There are things I keep from mine.



allthatjaz -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 4:24:37 AM)

Some times the truth hurts but truth also teaches people a lot.
I am known for speaking my mind. If someone can't handle that then its their issue and not mine. I don't go around intentionally hurting people but I say whats on my mind.
The reason this woman did this to you is because she does it to all her friends and all her friends have become her rescuers. She may keep doing it to them but she won't be doing it to you anymore and your reaction will hopefully make her wake up and think.
I agree with Icarys. This should not be something that makes you fall out. If it is then everything you said was negative and pointless. I don't know if I would be apologizing but I would certainly be having a gentle word in her ear and telling her that whilst you care for her you will always be honest with your opinions.




DesFIP -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 4:28:07 AM)

So she dumps all her issues on you. Is she ever there for you or is it a one way street? Because if so, she isn't a friend.
Therapists get paid to listen to people's problems without getting anything back. Friends support each other.

Besides you were blunt which gets through to people a lot better than candy coating it. People in denial don't hear anything that isn't really blunt.

Get her the name of a good therapist is the best thing you could do for her. Because otherwise she'll keep going on about stuff without ever changing it. This way, when she starts, just ask when her appointment is and make it clear you aren't the right person to talk to.

But you may want to not tell all the world about your relationship if this is the result. I don't tell people, I allow them to see us together and draw their own conclusions. They see that I am well taken care of, loved and respected and happy. And that's what matters.



stella41b -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 6:58:56 AM)

I will preface this by identifying myself as a fairly unconditional WYSIWYG sort of friend. I'm straightforward and up front about what I think and I'm not afraid to share my opinions, but I also accept drama - as drama is really the stuff life is made of and an opportunity for change.

However I make a distinction between genuine drama - critical life situations and issues which must be faced - and melodrama - the storm in a teacup type. I can handle it, because you see I'm not the cause of it, and that to me makes the difference.

I can give anything to anyone at any time for whatever reason, and that includes a pound coin to someone begging on the streets and also what I call my PCA - Pound Coin Advice.

Pound Coin Advice is the same good advice as any advice but it's also advice which you give and which, if it isn't taken, doesn't lead to any surprises. Most often it is used when someone talks about relationships irrespective of whether it's family relationships or romantic ones.

I don't think you were right to kick your friend in the teeth because it appears that you had taken it upon yourself to 'save' her and this is sometimes what happens when you try and save people, the outcome isn't what you expect it to be, and furthermore, your efforts at saving them usually aren't appreciated.

She's probably confused now, because you lent her that strong, supportive shoulder on which she could lean and depend, and then all of a sudden you've snapped at her and taken it away.

Yes, yes, yes I know that this probably isn't the way you see how things are, I don't see things this way either, nor do I guess would most people reading this thread. This is the way I'm assuming based on what you have presented in the OP that she sees it.

Not that I am suggesting you feel bad about this either. You are you, she did what she did, you did what you did, she said what she said and you responded in the way that you did. There's no need for you, or her for that matter (which also I feel needs to be mentioned) to hold yourselves up to any standard here because friendship is something which to me doesn't involve standards, but people who accept each other at face value for who they are in reality.

You see the nitty gritty of all this is that she's the one with self-esteem issues and she's the one who's getting involved with this guy, it's her relationship or attempt at a relationship, and it's her issues.

This is precisely why I will stand by my friends, I will support them, I will help them, I will listen to them, be there for them, but I won't make their decisions for them and I certainly won't save them - they have got to do the salvation bit all on their own.

The way I see it you have a choice. You can either get back in touch to reaffirm what you've said and somehow get it across to her that it's not her personally, but the situation which is pissing you off, or you can just do nothing and hope that she pauses for some reflection in the cold light of day and stumbles somehow on the solution alone.

Sometimes your absence can do more for a friendship than being there. This might be one of those times.



RCdc -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 7:09:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beej
what say you?


I say asshole.  And passive agressive.  And white knight.
And that she deserves an apology.

the.dark.



beej -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 7:12:31 AM)

thanks everyone for the advice. two things about it:

Icarys, i thought i was being harsh too so i guess this was a guilt post at first. because i know she's fragile; had she been a run of the mill whiny chick, i wouldn't have rethought this so much. i did immediately rephrase my first response from "don't bother me with this shit" to "bother me when it's important, is what i really mean." both times what i got from her was a cowering "i'm so sorry." and i guess that was what pissed me off.

as several of you said, these little lambs cower from EVERYTHING FUCKING THING. doesn't matter how you say it, if it's going to challenge their right to feel put upon by the whole world, they cower. she and i have been casual friends on the internet for years; i don't count her as a real friend but more as an associate. i knew before that she was withdrawn socially to a painful point but didn't know why until she came to me with her revelations. i guess that's where misleading things happen, because if a woman tells me that she was "tramautized" by men, i think she means it. i thought maybe she was in some kind of denial. i've had problems; i was willing to put a conversation into helping, you know? i'd never talked to her on the phone before. i felt like maybe she was reaching out and making an effort. see what i'm saying? because she didn't have to come to me in particular with this. as you've said, i'm sure she's got commiserators a plenty. maybe she was reaching for someone who would be different so that she could find away to act differently herself. that's why i think that she was prompted by me up and becoming kinky.

having thought about what all of you have said, i don't think i'll go back and smooth it over. trying to play therapist and guess at what she might be dealing with is how i shot myself in the foot, i think. i can't be bothered with whining in general, so why smooth it over if i'll just react the same way next time, i guess. plus, if she really does want my help, she needs a good kick in the teeth anyway, and that's how it would be with me. that's how my best friend helped me, so.

regarding coming out about kink, it wasn't so much a big reveal as a small personal decision. obviously, i'm pretty blunt about everything. so when someone asked what i was doing for Valentine's weekend, that smug ass smile that you get when you're up to something really good took hold of my face, and i was like, "fuck it. i'm getting tied to a tree. have fun with your Nicholas Sparks festival." heheheh.

thanks so much everyone. i like wearing big boots, but i don't like trampling people unnecessarily, lol.



LaTigresse -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 7:24:48 AM)

I avoid people like that.

I have a VERY low tolerance for what I see as stupid melodrama. Very low. I know this about myself. The people in my life are also very aware. They know that if they come to me asking for advice, they are not going to get sugar coated fluff. The people in my life appreciate that. There are many other people that are less a part of my life, for a reason.

I have even warned people, co-workers, etc...that it is unwise to continue to whine to me about their life shit because my patience was running dangerously low.

There are many many people that thrive on melodrama. If outside forces do not provide it, they create it. It gives them something to piss and whine about. They wouldn't know what to do without it. I cannot stand to be around or listen to that shit. If I am forced to be around such a person and they do not heed my warning, chances are they will get an earful at some point.

My daughter is much like me and had to learn, much as I did, to take responsibility for how we project our intolerance. When it is appropriate, when people really want to hear what we have to say and to understand that most people don't, they just want to piss and whine. That it is better to avoid these people if you cannot keep your mouth shut.

Most people do not want saving. Quit trying to save them and work on being the best you, you can be. Those that want to be saved, will be by example, not by your 'advice'.



allthatjaz -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 7:34:11 AM)

Why do you think her apology was pathetic?
How would of you reacted if she had been all defensive?

I kind of don't get this! she whines on and you have a go and she apologizes. If she hadn't apologized you wouldn't be so pissed off but her apology was seen as cowardice.
It takes a brave person to say they are sorry (meant or not)



domiguy -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 8:54:34 AM)

I don't have conversations like the one you illustrated. People don't usually come to me with this type of shit.

You can't be this big of an internet prick without being a bit of a outernet prick as well. Who has time for this kind of shit? I hang out with big boys and girls. I dropped the drama queens years ago.

I am great at giving advice. Sometimes I wish I would have followed my own a bit more rigidly. Such is life.

I would hate to think what happens to those folks that seek out advice and councel from some of the fuckers that post out here.

They must be so screwed.



beej -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 9:28:29 AM)

quote:

Why do you think her apology was pathetic?
How would of you reacted if she had been all defensive?


i thought it was pathetic because it was obvious she was upset, but she didn't speak from those feelings. she just backed off. i would rather she had said something like, "hey, you didn't have to be such a bitch to me" or something. like LaTigresse and some others have said, it's not my nature to think ahead of time if i'm saying something in the exact right pitch that will not hurt someone's feelings. i say what i feel is solid advice, from good intentions. if afterward they needed to have heard it differently, if i care enough, i'll try to respond to feed back. but someone who doesn't give feedback leaves me guessing, and guessing pisses me off. which is to say, before i asked all of you, i asked her, "maybe that was too harsh? well, i'm harsh. this is what i intended, i hope that was more clear than discouraging." and all i got from her was "i'm sorry."

in a new hilarious twist, i got on twitter not long ago, and she has asked the following of my best friend: "but i shldn't b afraid that if I do sumthin some1 doesn't like, i'll be abandoned, 4 lack of a better word?" lmfao. well, i guess i did tell her to use twitter.

not touching that with a ten foot pole. Limoges + bull = tiny pieces of china embedded in everyone's skin. i'll pass. thanks again everyone.



beej -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 9:29:46 AM)

quote:

You can't be this big of an internet prick without being a bit of a outernet prick as well.


lmao. word.



Voodali -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 9:56:09 AM)

I don't think its wrong to tell someone what you don't want ie. being used as a free therapist, but there are two issues I might have with your behavior.  First, I rarely think its constructive to be nasty when firmness will suffice, unless, of course, someone is being nasty to you and you want them to disappear forever.  Second, I would ask whether she would be willing to be there for you when you had drama.  My guess is that based on your reaction, its probably a one way street where you play free therapist and she plays victim. 
I only allow two kinds of people to use me as a therapist for very long, clients (I work in a field where I often double as therapist, and since I'm getting paid, I consider it part of the service), and those who are there for me when I have trouble, and are also willing to listen to me whine when I need to.  Otherwise, I consider it a huge drain on my time and energy, and I simply move on.



Smutmonger -> RE: Kicking Little Lambs In The Teeth (3/9/2010 9:57:36 AM)

Op...it's never wrong to tell someone to get over themselves when in a constant state of denial.



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