Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

The new Buddhist atheism


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> The new Buddhist atheism Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 11:29:04 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
The new Buddhist atheism

A book setting out the principles of a pared-down Buddhism has won praise from arch-atheist Christopher Hitchens

In God is Not Great, Christopher Hitchens writes of Buddhism as the sleep of reason, and of Buddhists as discarding their minds as well as their sandals. His passionate diatribe appeared in 2007. So what's he doing now, just three years later, endorsing a book on Buddhism written by a Buddhist?


The new publication is Confession of a Buddhist Atheist. Its author, Stephen Batchelor, is at the vanguard of attempts to forge an authentically western Buddhism. He is probably best known for Buddhism Without Beliefs, in which he describes himself as an agnostic. Now he has decided on atheism, the significance of which is not just that he doesn't believe in transcendent deities, but is also found in his stripping down of Buddhism to the basics.


~~~~~~~~~~~

an interesting read

amazing what people will write to be "accepted"

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 11:33:47 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
A Buddhing athiest? What next may come?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 11:47:49 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline
I am a Buddhist anteater.... it is a constant struggle for ME. That ants being reincarnated and all.


Jeff

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 12:09:28 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
I see atheists as critics of the religions (organized religions in particular). The rest of their contribution to understanding of things or philosophy  is negligible. It comes no surprise (considering the nature of Buddhist teachings) Buddhism has some immunity.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 12:11:35 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline
And Taoism?

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 1:30:29 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
It is principally Western religions that conceive of God as a separate "supreme being" somewhere. The teachings of the Upanishads, for example, are that "All is Brahman," the entire universe, and all life in it. Experiencing this Supremely Conscious state is the essence of Self-Realization. "Thou art That." You are God, everything is God, there is nothing but God. The word God in this context means the Ultimate Reality, not a powerful entity sitting around somewhere "out there" watching us (or not). So really, it's not just Buddhism that doesn't believe in the God of Western religious doctrine.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/11/2010 1:35:02 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 2:04:40 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
It wouldn't be buddhist if it did. I always find the fact that people can't get their heads around that a bit feeble.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 2:53:56 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow
I see atheists as critics of the religions (organized religions in particular).

Not just organized religions, we're critical of the magic crystal lickers too.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow
The rest of their contribution to understanding of things or philosophy is negligible.

Bull.

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 3:49:25 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

I see atheists as critics of the religions (organized religions in particular). The rest of their contribution to understanding of things or philosophy  is negligible. It comes no surprise (considering the nature of Buddhist teachings) Buddhism has some immunity.


Then your vision isn't very good.

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 3:53:18 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

And Taoism?


See, here's the thing. Everybody's like Christians this, Muslims that, Buddhists this other thing, Atheists etc. (how the fuck is the lack of belief a belief?), but nobody thinks of the poor Taoists.

Monotheists, sure, get up, pray to One God, five times if you're Muslim (Christians are too holy for that---once a week is good, or even just Christmas and Easter), and they're good to go.

But Taoists? First, there's Tao. Then there's the twins, Ying and Yang. And then, there they are, the Ten Thousand Things!

My day planner is a disaster area.


(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 4:11:04 PM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline
Life, all life
began without words.

Life is made - and no one owns it.

The Tao is neither selfish nor proud.

The Tao is generous and graceful in what it does
Without ever claiming any merit.

And the sage's greatness lies
in taking no credit.

_____________________________

<-- Easily amused.
<-- Easily impressed.

Strangers have the BEST candy!

Puppy dogs are my favorite people!


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 4:30:20 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline
This is the reason why nobody knows what the sage does for a living.

Pretty soon those in the adjoining office cubicles are going to be demanding an explanation of what benefit he brings to life corp.


_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to DarlingSavage)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 4:39:31 PM   
couldbemage


Posts: 112
Joined: 7/16/2008
Status: offline
Ya know, thomas jefferson did just about the same thing to the cristian religion.

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 4:41:55 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

My day planner is a disaster area.



My day planner is what it is. What else could it be?


LaoJeff

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 5:01:23 PM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

This is the reason why nobody knows what the sage does for a living.

Pretty soon those in the adjoining office cubicles are going to be demanding an explanation of what benefit he brings to life corp.



LMAO! Ok, time for alcohol!

< Message edited by DarlingSavage -- 3/11/2010 5:02:02 PM >


_____________________________

<-- Easily amused.
<-- Easily impressed.

Strangers have the BEST candy!

Puppy dogs are my favorite people!


(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 5:38:40 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

It is principally Western religions that conceive of God as a separate "supreme being" somewhere. The teachings of the Upanishads, for example, are that "All is Brahman," the entire universe, and all life in it. Experiencing this Supremely Conscious state is the essence of Self-Realization. "Thou art That." You are God, everything is God, there is nothing but God. The word God in this context means the Ultimate Reality, not a powerful entity sitting around somewhere "out there" watching us (or not). So really, it's not just Buddhism that doesn't believe in the God of Western religious doctrine.

K.


That's pretty much how I see it. Atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. Buddha was not a deity. Neither was Lao Tzu. They were essentially spiritual philosophers. In fact, Taoism was a philosophy until China turned it into a religion in the late Han Dynasty.

I've never seen a contradiction between the original philosophical teachings Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism and Atheism.

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 6:29:05 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
"Filled with Brahman are all things that are; filled with Brahman are all things that are not."

--Upanishads

Without Brahman, even the gods are powerless.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 7:00:48 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline
"We are all alright, really"

pooh

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 9:25:05 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

It is principally Western religions that conceive of God as a separate "supreme being" somewhere. The teachings of the Upanishads, for example, are that "All is Brahman," the entire universe, and all life in it. Experiencing this Supremely Conscious state is the essence of Self-Realization. "Thou art That." You are God, everything is God, there is nothing but God. The word God in this context means the Ultimate Reality, not a powerful entity sitting around somewhere "out there" watching us (or not). So really, it's not just Buddhism that doesn't believe in the God of Western religious doctrine.

K.


That's pretty much how I see it. Atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. Buddha was not a deity. Neither was Lao Tzu. They were essentially spiritual philosophers. In fact, Taoism was a philosophy until China turned it into a religion in the late Han Dynasty.

I've never seen a contradiction between the original philosophical teachings Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism and Atheism.

- LA



Not that i am arguing your point... im not. I just found it curious that he would denounce Buddhism then come out for it after a book is written in the "new world" form.

In God is Not Great, Christopher Hitchens writes of Buddhism as the sleep of reason, and of Buddhists as discarding their minds as well as their sandals. His passionate diatribe appeared in 2007. So what's he doing now, just three years later, endorsing a book on Buddhism written by a Buddhist?


followed by...

It's a moving and thoughtful book that does not fear to challenge. It will cause consternation, not least for its quietly harsh critique of Tibetan Buddhism as authoritarian. It is full of phrases that stick in the mind, such as "religion is life living itself."


Hitchens calls it "honest" and "serious", a model of self-criticism, and an example of the kind of ethical and scientific humanism "in which lies our only real hope". The endorsement makes sense because Batchelor's is an account of Buddhism for "this world alone". His deployment of reason and evidence, coupled to the imperative to remake Buddhism and hold no allegiance to inherited doctrines, would appeal to Hitchens. And not just Hitchens.


For it's also striking that the first date on the tour Batchelor is currently undertaking to launch the book was hosted not by a temple or meditation centre, but by the humanist chaplaincy of Harvard University. Batchelor's preferred term is "secular" Buddhism, but his work clearly appeals to some atheistic humanists – not least Greg Epstein, the humanist chaplain at Harvard.


Buddhism rewritten for the modern world... now called secular Buddhism.

Epstein sees Batchelor's contributions as part of a trend in contemporary humanism, one he calls the "new humanism". It's a humanism that focuses not so much on assertions and campaigns, as on an attempt to forge a humanly nourishing way of life. When I ask him, Epstein is nervous of the word "spiritual", though he's keen that organised humanism does more than just "sitting around and philosophising." He himself came to humanism after studying Buddhism. He practices meditation. He tells me that Batchelor's bold attempts to remake Buddhism are appreciated in American humanist circles. There is a hunger for it, he explains, from those who recognise the need for community and ritual. A practice of meditation can provide both: community via the concept of sangha – coming together with a common intent or purpose; ritual by the regular need to practice.

Seems once again we have a whole bunch of words being twisted to mean new things based upon the belief of a small group of people.

Remaking Buddhism... should be interesting.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The new Buddhist atheism - 3/11/2010 9:30:09 PM   
InvisibleBlack


Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. Buddha was not a deity. Neither was Lao Tzu. They were essentially spiritual philosophers. In fact, Taoism was a philosophy until China turned it into a religion in the late Han Dynasty.

I've never seen a contradiction between the original philosophical teachings Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism and Atheism.

- LA


 
But... but... what about the Taoist Crusades!? The War of the Three Buddhas!? The Confucian Inquisition!?
 
Oh. Wait. Wrong continent.
 
Nevermind...
 


_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> The new Buddhist atheism Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109