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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 3:32:17 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		The problem I see in your conversation is a lack of communication about why you were in a bad mood. If you've had bad news; job layoff in the future, illness of you or a loved one etc then yes that should matter to him. Just as it's your responsibility to offer up why you are unhappy it is equally his responsibility to ask why.

And if the only time you see him is when he wants sex, then that's a one sided relationship imo. Don't you ever talk about everyday things, ever go out to the movies etc? And if not, are you content with this?

I wouldn't accept being punished for being unhappy and I wouldn't be in a relationship where what happens in my life didn't matter to him. YMMV.


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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 5:05:51 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~

quote:

it would help me to know if i should, to a certain extent, expect him to speak an altered language of affection.


I tend not to expect things from people. Everyone is different. That said, we all have various ways of showing affection. What is most important is to find some with whom we are compatible and brings more joy and pleasure into our life than confusion and strife.

My mom used to tell me when I was a little girl, that if a boy teased me, it was because he liked me. Well luckily, most men grow out of this stage and can start showing attraction in a different way.

I believe that the way I express my dominance is quite affectionate. What my partner is feeling is also very important to me. Bottom line, this will work for some men, while others are going to want me to treat them like garbage. I will be incompatible with the latter.

- LA

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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 6:36:23 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

~Fast Reply~

quote:

it would help me to know if i should, to a certain extent, expect him to speak an altered language of affection.


I tend not to expect things from people. Everyone is different. That said, we all have various ways of showing affection. What is most important is to find some with whom we are compatible and brings more joy and pleasure into our life than confusion and strife.

My mom used to tell me when I was a little girl, that if a boy teased me, it was because he liked me. Well luckily, most men grow out of this stage and can start showing attraction in a different way.

I believe that the way I express my dominance is quite affectionate. What my partner is feeling is also very important to me. Bottom line, this will work for some men, while others are going to want me to treat them like garbage. I will be incompatible with the latter.

- LA



I thought all men were garbage

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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 7:54:09 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

I thought all men were garbage


Did the goose tell you that?


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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 8:36:10 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

I thought all men were garbage


Did the goose tell you that?



she thinks everybody but me is garbage but she does think at times i'm not worth much

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all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 9:47:16 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline 		BDSM Myths: Relationships And Reality  

One of the most damaging unwritten myths of our community is that because our sexuality is different, we can throw away or disregard all the conventional rules of how to maintain our relationships with our partners. Human beings don't work that way. Even the most submissive and downtrodden slave needs a source of positive self-esteem to be healthy; even the most dominant Master or Mistress may need reassurance themselves when things are going badly.  

Honesty, intimacy and trust are still issues in the BDSM relationship, perhaps even more so than in a conventional one. If there are significant elements present in your BDSM relationship that would mean major trouble in a vanilla relationship, the mere fact that you guys are kinky isn't going to save it or make it exempt from these basic human relationship issues.   Can you trust your partner to be honest with you? Can you honestly share your feelings with your partner? Can you rely on your partner to look after your interests, your health, your safety? Do you respect your partner as a human being? Do you find your feelings of self worth enhanced by your partner, or diminished? Do you feel better about yourself when you are with your partner, or worse? These are some good questions to ask yourself about any relationship, including one based on BDSM.  

No matter how brutal the Master, how bitchy the Mistress or how groveling the slave may be in the dungeon, very few people want to be beaten on nonstop or yelled at and humiliated outside of consensual play space. You will eventually have to relate to the adult human being, not just the kinky activity, when your whip arm gets tired and it's time to actually sit down and talk about the relationship.   Being kinky does not excuse anyone from being a real person. Real people can have bad days when they don't feel very dominant or submissive or sexual at all. Real people have human needs. Real people need to communicate honestly to make a relationship work. Real people may need hugs and support from their friends in times of stress or grief.   Stereotypes of True Masters don't need any of those things, of course - but last I checked, I wasn't living in a John Preston novel, and probably neither are you.            

Traditionally the role of the caretaker and nurturer in the relationship is assigned to the dominant partner - but why not flaunt tradition at least some of the time? Just because your partner is the dominant doesn't mean they they're immune to being tired and stressed. If your top comes home from a hard day and is obviously physically and emotionally exhausted, it is definitely a poor time to play rebellious slave and demand to be punished.  

Top abuse can and does happen in our community. A really greedy bottom is sometimes known as a "black hole" - which is not a reference to ass play, but to a phenomenon of astronomy that sucks in every bit of light and warmth and energy that comes near it and never, ever gives any back out. Nobody loves a do-me queen, at least not for very long. Since bottoms outnumber tops by a significant margin in the scene, it's smart to get with the program and take tender loving care of the one you've got.   Some dominants find that they enjoy and eroticize "punishment" scenes, where they must maintain their authority forcefully in the face of rebellion. Others seldom or never want to spend their time and energy "forcing" an unruly submissive to obey them if loyalty and trust are not given willingly and freely. It can be physically and emotionally exhausting to maintain your authority as a dominant in the face of constant rebellion and challenge, and even a strong and confident top might eventually start wondering if this bottom really wants to be there at all.   If you find that you enjoy being a resistant, bratty bottom in the dungeon, some clear and honest communication on the subject is far better than leaving your partner with the real life impression that their efforts are unappreciated.  

I have seen many "submissives" so deeply hungry to have their own needs to submit or to bottom satisfied that they treated their tops like fantasy objects which existed to fulfill their needs and not as human at all. Some may confuse fantasy with reality and claim to be lifestyle submissives when their actual desire is to bottom masochistically for occasional pain play.   Dishonesty, whether deliberate or the inadvertent result of inexperience with one's own real needs and desires, is a poor basis for negotiating a relationship or even a scene.

< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 3/12/2010 9:48:12 AM >

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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 10:21:57 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		To go along with LadyNTrainer's thought, it isn't just a rebellious slave who can become tiring but an excessively needy one.  While we all need positive attention there are those who constantly demand it, needed lavish praise, expect to be forgiven for any slight during their "needy" time which they can't see as almost non-stop, and it can leave the Master just needing a break. 

For someone who has seen or dealt with a situation like this, asking how they would handle it if you are in a bad mood may send up a red flag to them.  We all have our bad moods, our times when we are off, and just need some extra support.  It should definitely be talked about between partners so that each has a realistic expectation.


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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 10:39:43 AM   
beej


Posts: 145
Joined: 1/24/2010
Status: offline 		LOTS of good advice, thanks everyone. key points for me:

1) "i can leave" = passive aggressive. that was hard to hear, so i needed to hear it, thanks. it is the wrong damn thing to say to someone that i care about. i'll plead this:

quote:

I thought seriously about leaving him simply because I knew I was falling for him big time but at all costs I refused to let myself get hurt by taking a chance.


and then i'll not do the same again. man, i feel like a jerk but it's not the first time and sure not to be the last, lol.

2) i need to stick to what i need. good relationship math is the same whether the relationship is kinky or not.

3) i dunno why i thought this was a mystery. as many said, you want someone, you work on it. i can spend all day scoping out doom, but what does that help? i guess because it's new, there hasn't been time for regular life problems to put a pause in the awesome of it all. i think what i'll do is go to his house and just talk to him, after the sex because i'm greedy like that, heh. i'll see what he does, and i'll see what i do too. i begin to think that i asked this wonky hypothetical question, as opposed to just spilling my guts about my bad day, because i didn't want to expose something touchy to him and also because i don't want to be wrong about him, yeah? i want to believe that he's an alright guy underneath, that this could work. maybe i'm wrong, but that's still a good motivation to come from. that's a good base of operations. worst that could happen is that it doesn't work out and we move on. that wouldn't even be a newsworthy tragedy, just a disappointment. i'll still have been better off for knowing him than not.

thanks everyone, i really appreciate it. hopefully i'm near the end of new kid syndrome and can move on to bigger better thread topics. :)

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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 10:46:31 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Red flag #1: she's having a concern - something that she needs that she's not getting - and his response is "if you give me attitude, I'll punish you.



I'd disagree.  Here's why:  re-read her OP... she did NOT tell him she was in a bad mood, she asked, "what would happen if...", the "what if" makes this a rhetorical question.  BIG DIFFERENCE between what you're describing!!!

As to the "if you give me attitude, I'll punish you" part, that's no different from a 'nilla dynamic where one would say, "Hey, don't take your bad day out on me", which we all would agree is correct.  Nobody has the right to dump their day on someone else.


quote:

 

...he's just going ahead as usual because "that's what we do." What we do? Is what he does...



Welcome to the Master/slave dynamic, and quite frankly, the basic premise of the Power Exchange Dynamic.  Again, I think you're missing that there are two separate things going on here.  Yes, he may use/fuck her, irrespective of what's going on with her at that moment, but this does NOT mean he'd NEVER take the time to find out what's wrong... <dramatic pause>... WHEN ASKED FOR HIS TIME, HELP, AND COMFORT.  Too many expect others to be mind-readers.  You gotta problem, then open your flippin' pie-hole and say something, otherwise take your pissy attitude and "foul mood" elsewhere, regardless of what side of the slash you're on.

quote:



OP, wanting someone's time and charming their friends does not equal caring

.


Actually, yes it does.  We all CHOOSE where and how to spend our time.  If the choice to spend that time (i) is with the other person, and (ii) making the effort to befriend those in HER life, that absolutely does equal "caring", as well as great interest in her, else he'd do none of this.

quote:



Having no response to your freaking out... 



Again, this is NOT what took place... she posed a rhetorical question to him.  Nothing more.  There was no "freak out"... just a question.


quote:



Sorry for all the ire, but the whole "he's the Dom so her needs are secondary" attitude really, really bothers me.



Again, this is the very premise of the Power Exchange Dynamic.  Further, there are DEGREES of want/need.  Someone showing up in a pissy "foul" mood is one thing, where someone showing up in "freak out" mode is quite another.  Two completely different things... and neither actually took place.

quote:



Yes, she's submitting to him and to his needs and blah blah blah... she's still in the relationship...



Yes, she is... and you DON'T dump your shit on someone you're in a "relationship" with.  Again, if something's wrong, then SAY SO... don't just piss about in a "foul" mood waiting for someone to ask you what's wrong... again, nobody is going to be a mind reader.  Put on your big girl/boy panties/undies and open your pie hole if something is bothering you.

quote:



...and just because something isn't interesting to a Dom doesn't mean he should ignore it completely when it means a lot to his sub.



1) There is nothing "interesting" about someone stomping about in a pissy, "foul" mood and expecting OTHERS to ask you what's wrong... it's fucking annoying.  Once more, you gotta problem, then open your yapper, or go elsewhere.  That's what adults do.

2)  There was nothing to "ignore completely" because she simply posed a rhetorical question... which he did not "ignore"; he answered her question.  And again, using/fucking his property has ZIPPO to do with any of this... they are two separte things.  (a) Using her because it pleases him to do so, and (b) her being in a pissy, "foul" mood and not coming out with what's on her mind.  She's expecting him to think/act like a woman... wanting him to DRAW things out of her.  Men don't do this.  You want a man's help/comfort?  SIMPLY ASK FOR IT... that's what men do... they try to "fix" things.  Women prefer to TALK THROUGH things... men prefer to FIX things, then be done with them.  The whole "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" thing.

3)  He dosn't know what's wrong because SHE'S NOT SAID SO... she just showed up in a "foul mood" (as stated in the OPs rhetorical question).  Thus, there is nothing that he's aware of that "means a lot" to her because... <second dramatic pause>... SHE'S NOT SAID ANYTHING.  She's just shown up in a "foul mood".  Again, re-read the OP, while also taking note this was all based on a rhetorical question... one that was asked by her, and answered (i.e., not ignored) by him.  And what did he get for this?  A veiled passive-aggressive threat of LEAVING; which was pretty lame, to say the least.  Granted, her comment of "leaving" was likely just her stating her options out loud, but as you can tell from his reponse of, "Leave? As in, for good? What, are you unhappy in our relationship?", clearly it did not go over well.






< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 3/12/2010 11:26:50 AM >

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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 11:51:11 AM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

BDSM Myths: Relationships And Reality  

...snipped for brevity....


What a refreshing voice of sanity and common sense. This should be the manifesto that everyone must read and click the check box acknowledging that they have done so before they are allowed to proceed any further on this or any other kink dating site. Of course, those looking for play only could sign a waiver. Alternatively, if you put this on a tee shirt I'd buy it.

Kudos to you and chamberqueen, whose response was just as thoughtful.

Two big thumbs way up!

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 4:09:39 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beej

i've been having some translation problems with my guy, and i'm wondering whether at some point, i should expect a Dominant to express affection in the language of his/er kink, or whether s/he should always be held to the same standards of expressing affection as any other lover or loved one? the scenario: yesterday, i was in a bad mood for a lot of reasons (sick stomach, didn't get much sleep, etc.) my Dom is easy going and even keel, so i asked him what would happen if i turned up to his house in a foul mood? conversation paraphrased as follows:

Wood: if you give me attitude, i'll punish you. otherwise, we'll do it the same as usual (usual for us is fucking like cave people)
beej: i wouldn't be in a bad mood toward you just in general. wouldn't you try to act comforting?
Wood: no. i'll fuck you how i see fit.
beej: say what? you're going to punish me with rough sex for not being cheerful?
Wood: no, that's not a punishment. that's our way, and it's right for us, don't you think?
beej: seems like it doesn't matter what i think or feel. but i guess if i don't like your way, i can leave.
Wood: leave? as in, for good? what, are you unhappy in our relationship?
beej: [pissy]
Wood: i hope you feel the same as me, but honestly, do you see this lasting or is quitting your back up plan?

i'm trying to have the right perspective on this. if i squint at it from my perspective, it sounds like he's saying, "i'm going to fuck you how i want without regard to your feelings." had another lover said that to me, there wouldn't even have been a conversation on my way out the door. if i squint at it from his perspective, he claims to be saying, "we'll make love no matter what." that's exactly what he said when i told him that my libido was higher during my monthly or when we talked about the weather for our weekend. it could be snowing outside, i could be filthy, smell like a fishery, and be in a foul mood, but we are still going to go at if for hours. he's a naturalist; taking and being taken in a raw state is what he calls closeness.

maybe i'm stuck on what i'm giving up. my ex would cuddle/coddle me when i was in a bad mood, but then again, he didn't want me when i was seeing red or running red, even if i needed him then. Wood isn't solicitous in general, but he has posted up everywhere in my life just to be there, i guess. i hear from him several times a day even if it's just to say, "i don't have anything to say; i just want to know what you're doing." he comments on my blog. he's meeting my friends and charming their asses off. he wants more of my time and is bending his schedule to get it since we live at few hours apart. these are the signs of someone who cares, i keep telling myself. he says that he cares, more than once a day; he says that i make him happy. but once you start reinterpreting your standards, it's a slippery slope toward rationalizing things.

it would help me to know if i should, to a certain extent, expect him to speak an altered language of affection.

to be fair, i should also admit that i'm notorious for scrounging up reasons to be less vulnerable.


Well the way I see it, if you were in a bad mood, my thoughts would be on how to get you in a better mood, simply requiring you to have caveman sex or whatever would be the furthest thing from my mind. There is no rule that says a dominant can't be compassionate and caring and if you need to be held and cuddled, so be it, then that is what the dominant should be doing, not worrying about his sexual appetite


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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 5:20:13 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Red flag #1: she's having a concern - something that she needs that she's not getting - and his response is "if you give me attitude, I'll punish you.



I'd disagree.  Here's why:  re-read her OP... she did NOT tell him she was in a bad mood, she asked, "what would happen if...", the "what if" makes this a rhetorical question.  BIG DIFFERENCE between what you're describing!!!

As to the "if you give me attitude, I'll punish you" part, that's no different from a 'nilla dynamic where one would say, "Hey, don't take your bad day out on me", which we all would agree is correct.  Nobody has the right to dump their day on someone else.


Actually that isn't a rhetorical question. It is a hypothetical question which does deserve an answer. A rhetorical question is one where no answer is expected or required. Further she went on to explain that she wasn't planning on giving him attitude. Not only that, she specifically asked whether or not he would offer comfort.

While you are correct in equating the "give me attitude" with "don't take your bad day out on me," here is a news flash for you...Yes, we do have the right to talk with our partners about our bad days. Not "dump" on them, but "vent" to them most definately. In any relationship where the people involved are supposed to be also "loving partners" one has the right to expect their partner to be supportive and willing to listen to them about what is going on in their life. That goes for both D types and s types.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

 

...he's just going ahead as usual because "that's what we do." What we do? Is what he does...



Welcome to the Master/slave dynamic, and quite frankly, the basic premise of the Power Exchange Dynamic.  Again, I think you're missing that there are two separate things going on here.  Yes, he may use/fuck her, irrespective of what's going on with her at that moment, but this does NOT mean he'd NEVER take the time to find out what's wrong... <dramatic pause>... WHEN ASKED FOR HIS TIME, HELP, AND COMFORT.  Too many expect others to be mind-readers.  You gotta problem, then open your flippin' pie-hole and say something, otherwise take your pissy attitude and "foul mood" elsewhere, regardless of what side of the slash you're on.



This is a new relationship, and while it might not have been the best style of communication, she was, in fact, putting out some "feelers" to find out what he would do in a given situation. A situation that in all liklihood has not come up yet. Not all M/s dynamics work the same. However, having said that, while he might use/fuck her regardless of what is going on with her at that moment, over time that is going to make someone feel extremely unimportant. It also screams that the first order of business is getting his rocks off.

No one should be a mind reader, but I'll be damned if the guy shouldn't have some common sense either. She was broaching the subject in a round the bush kind of way, which isn't the best method, but at the same time, his response was essentially, "I don't give a fuck what kind of mood you are in, shut the hell up and suck my cock."

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA
quote:



OP, wanting someone's time and charming their friends does not equal caring



Actually, yes it does.  We all CHOOSE where and how to spend our time.  If the choice to spend that time (i) is with the other person, and (ii) making the effort to befriend those in HER life, that absolutely does equal "caring", as well as great interest in her, else he'd do none of this.


It could also simply be a matter of "this is what two people who are involved do." I don't care if you call yourself Dominant, Master or King On High of All Things, if the dude wants to be able to continue getting the pussy, then he needs to spend time with the person. Sure he might get some at first without doing that, but over the long run, while some women get off on being nothing but a series of holes for a guy to stick his dick in, most are going to want a bit more.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:



Yes, she's submitting to him and to his needs and blah blah blah... she's still in the relationship...




Yes, she is... and you DON'T dump your shit on someone you're in a "relationship" with.  Again, if something's wrong, then SAY SO... don't just piss about in a "foul" mood waiting for someone to ask you what's wrong... again, nobody is going to be a mind reader.  Put on your big girl/boy panties/undies and open your pie hole if something is bothering you.



Again, Yes, that is what people in a relationship with each other do. They TALK and VENT and support each other and help them get over and out of their bad moods. She was telling him that something was wrong. He was responding with the basic horny guy move of "yea, well my dick is hard."

I said before that her method of "feeling him out" to see how he might respond wasn't the best method of communication, but he is scoring no marks for his responses either. I don't care what the dynamic is, there are two people in the relationship. It's all fine and dandy to play "master" and say that your slave's needs are "secondary" but sometimes, if the master has a brain in his head, he will recognize when that needs to be reversed for the success of the relationship. If he can't manage to do that he is going to find himself mastering nothing more than the palm of his own damn hand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA
quote:



...and just because something isn't interesting to a Dom doesn't mean he should ignore it completely when it means a lot to his sub.



1) There is nothing "interesting" about someone stomping about in a pissy, "foul" mood and expecting OTHERS to ask you what's wrong... it's fucking annoying.  Once more, you gotta problem, then open your yapper, or go elsewhere.  That's what adults do.



On this one, I admit that jujubee is wrong, it wasn't something interesting. However, again, no "adults" talk out their problems with their SO or their friends.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

2)  There was nothing to "ignore completely" because she simply posed a rhetorical question... which he did not "ignore"; he answered her question.  And again, using/fucking his property has ZIPPO to do with any of this... they are two separte things.  (a) Using her because it pleases him to do so, and (b) her being in a pissy, "foul" mood and not coming out with what's on her mind.  She's expecting him to think/act like a woman... wanting him to DRAW things out of her.  Men don't do this.  You want a man's help/comfort?  SIMPLY ASK FOR IT... that's what men do... they try to "fix" things.  Women prefer to TALK THROUGH things... men prefer to FIX things, then be done with them.  The whole "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" thing.



Once more, it was a HYPOTHETICAL question, not a rhetorical one. I don't disagree with the differences between men and women making a big difference in how they respond. In new relationships it takes some time to learn how each other works and responds. Some men don't respond even when asked. Some respond in a way they *think* is helpful when it really isn't. Quite frankly, regardless of that, he failed the hypothetical question. He basically told her that her having a bad day or being in a bad mood is meaningless to him. He told her he WOULDN'T offer her the comfort she needed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA
3)  He dosn't know what's wrong because SHE'S NOT SAID SO... she just showed up in a "foul mood" (as stated in the OPs rhetorical question).  Thus, there is nothing that he's aware of that "means a lot" to her because... <second dramatic pause>... SHE'S NOT SAID ANYTHING.  She's just shown up in a "foul mood".  Again, re-read the OP, while also taking note this was all based on a rhetorical question... one that was asked by her, and answered (i.e., not ignored) by him.  And what did he get for this?  A veiled passive-aggressive threat of LEAVING; which was pretty lame, to say the least.  Granted, her comment of "leaving" was likely just her stating her options out loud, but as you can tell from his reponse of, "Leave? As in, for good? What, are you unhappy in our relationship?", clearly it did not go over well.




Actually all of this occured in a phone call not in the "showing up." It would be wise to also note that the OP is very new to this lifestyle and if she has spent any time reading these boards, she will find thread after thread where it says "This is what M/s is, the s type likes it or leaves." So it would seem that she wasn't making any passive agressive statement (even though she has since stated that she might have done so, I think it is more that she is being led by what she has read). I think it was more a matter of her wondering aloud about how things work. She is talking about a "what if" hypothetical situation and he is responding with how he will respond and she is stating that her understanding of how these relationship work is that a slave/sub "likes it/deals with it or leaves." Those are the options.

Dealing with a non demonstrative guy isn't easy. I know, I have one. A lot of times he will think that sex IS the way to get me out of my bad mood. He isn't the "fix it" type, and he isn't the "let's talk it out" type. After 14 years, we have learned our own way of communicating that works for us. That doesn't mean, however, that there weren't some especially rocky times way back when while trying to figure it all out. I'm very communicative and demonstrative, he is very much the opposite. Now I'm a little less communicative and demonstrative and he is a little more communicative and demonstrative. But it takes time to get there and there are mistakes along the way.

Of course, there are times when I won't notice he is in a bad mood and then things go all to shit. But then again, I guess that is because we aren't the "adults" that MSLA is. We're just human beings who are still imperfect and work hard at making our relationship succeed. Considering it's been going on for as long as it has, I would say that our way is working, imperfections and all.






< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 3/12/2010 5:23:01 PM >

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 5:29:44 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		MSLA you missed a later post of the op. In that later post she stated that the first time they had sex, she freaked out afterward and he gave her zero aftercare, just rolled over and went to sleep.

As far as her asking a hypothetical question, his response shows him lacking in empathy. Most people when asked an odd question would ask why she was asking this, what caused it. He ignored that and just said he would punish her.

I didn't find her saying that she thought she had two choices; take what he dishes out or leave to be passive aggressive but a statement about their relationship. Mainly that there is no discussion, no emotional support etc. All she can do is take it until she can't take it any more. Pretty sad imo.


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(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 5:49:24 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

~Fast Reply~

quote:

it would help me to know if i should, to a certain extent, expect him to speak an altered language of affection.


I tend not to expect things from people. Everyone is different. That said, we all have various ways of showing affection. What is most important is to find some with whom we are compatible and brings more joy and pleasure into our life than confusion and strife.

My mom used to tell me when I was a little girl, that if a boy teased me, it was because he liked me. Well luckily, most men grow out of this stage and can start showing attraction in a different way.

I believe that the way I express my dominance is quite affectionate. What my partner is feeling is also very important to me. Bottom line, this will work for some men, while others are going to want me to treat them like garbage. I will be incompatible with the latter.

- LA



I thought all men were garbage


Take some time to read a few of my posts and you will realise that I have never, ever espoused those ideas.

- LA

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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 6:10:17 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Actually that isn't a rhetorical question.



You're correct... my bad.

quote:

 
While you are correct in equating the "give me attitude" with "don't take your bad day out on me," here is a news flash for you...Yes, we do have the right to talk with our partners about our bad days. Not "dump" on them, but "vent" to them most definately. In any relationship where the people involved are supposed to be also "loving partners" one has the right to expect their partner to be supportive and willing to listen to them about what is going on in their life. That goes for both D types and s types.


Agreed... but the OP simply stated showing up to his house in a "foul mood", not that she'd communicated anything.

quote:


No one should be a mind reader, but I'll be damned if the guy shouldn't have some common sense either.


I don't think we can judge his "common sense", as she didn't tell him she wanted to speak with him about something.

quote:


...if the dude wants to be able to continue getting the pussy, then he needs to spend time with the person.


From what the OP wrote in her first post, he appears to be spending quite a bit of time both with and on her.

quote:


Actually all of this occured in a phone call not in the "showing up."


The OPs scenario was of her "showing up" in a "foul mood".

quote:


I think it was more a matter of her wondering aloud about how things work.


Hence, my comment of:  Granted, her comment of "leaving" was likely just her stating her options out loud, but as you can tell from his reponse of, "Leave? As in, for good? What, are you unhappy in our relationship?", clearly it did not go over well.


quote:


Of course, there are times when I won't notice he is in a bad mood and then things go all to shit. But then again, I guess that is because we aren't the "adults"


An "adult" is not someone with bad mood radar... but someone who opens their yap when they're in a bad mood, and doesn't piss about making others pay for said "bad mood".



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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 6:12:59 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

MSLA you missed a later post of the op. In that later post she stated that the first time they had sex, she freaked out afterward and he gave her zero aftercare, just rolled over and went to sleep.



Yes, you're correct... I hadn't seen that "later" post.  Again, my bad.  Apologies to jujubee for that oversight.



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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 6:59:20 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

MSLA you missed a later post of the op. In that later post she stated that the first time they had sex, she freaked out afterward and he gave her zero aftercare, just rolled over and went to sleep.



Yes, you're correct... I hadn't seen that "later" post.  Again, my bad.  Apologies to jujubee for that oversight.




Not a problem, MSLA Also, I think we actually agree on a lot of this. I never at any point said that people could walk around sulking and expect their mind to be read, I was commenting on the fact that she actually spoke about something that was bothering her, and his response was extremely questionable. Then I went on to recommend that she sit down with him and talk to him about her needs, which I think is absolutely necessary. You definitely can't expect someone to be a mind reader - I've learned that the hard way

However, I do still disagree with you about the essence of power exchange. Yes, it's about surrendering power and control to the Dominant, but it's the Dominant's job to make sure that they aren't misusing that power. What's the point of a power exchange if the submissive partner isn't being fulfilled? I thought the point of submission was to find psychological, emotional and sexual fulfillment through trust and surrender, not to just supply sex whenever the Dom wants it. Of course sex is the thrust of it - I especially know that, coming from a non 24/7 place - but if you're in distress and your partner doesn't care then that is just a messed up situation. It has nothing to do with dominance. So I suggest she sit him down and have a serious talk about this need of hers.

Then we can see if he's really just "not reading her mind," or if he's taking advantage of her insecurity and newness as long as he possibly can.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 7:08:03 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		I agree with the people who said that he didn't intend sex to be a punishment, but that if you were yelling at him or stomping around or something, he'd punish you. For me, if I were in that bad of a mood, or was feeling sick, I'd probably reschedule for a different night. If I was at his home already, and something got me so angry that I was tempted to be pissy at him, I'd at least go into a good cleaning frenzy, or run around the block a couple of times, or do something else constructive until I was fit to be around other people. Once I'd calmed down, then I can talk with him in a respectful way (I'm allowed to vent a bit, but not to yell at him, especially if it's not something he did).

If I'm upset, my Master wants me to talk with him about it, either on the phone or in person. He's pretty cuddly in general, and if I needed a little extra comforting, he's willing to do that for me. I don't think that's a D/s issue, it's more down to the individual people.

I'm confused about the time when you freaked out after you first had sex. It sounded like he asked you if anything was wrong, and you didn't say anything, until he'd fallen asleep already. I can understand having trouble talking about it right away, but it sounded like he noticed something was bothering you and tried to reassure you/check in. Did you try to talk to him after he woke up, or the next time you saw him? Dominants are usually pretty good at reading body language, but we can't expect them to read our minds.

MSLA, I asked my Master a lot of hypothetical questions back when we first started dating. I don't see anything wrong with trying to get an idea of how he handles various situations before they come up. I agree though that pretending that it was only a hypothetical when she was actually upset does come across as a bit passive-aggressive, or at least as very poor communication.

Jujubee, I agree. If I do get upset, or I'm feeling a little under the weather or exhausted, we'll probably still do S/M and sexual things, but he'll give me what I need to get in a better mood first. Usually that only takes a few minutes, and a bit of talk/cuddling. If I'm really struggling, I might beg permission to satisfy him in an alternative way, but usually that leads to other things fairly quickly. If he didn't care how I was feeling, we wouldn't be compatible in the first place. His needs and wants get priority, but my needs and desires are important to him, as well.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 3/12/2010 7:15:37 PM >

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 7:22:29 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB
I do still disagree with you about the essence of power exchange. Yes, it's about surrendering power and control to the Dominant, but it's the Dominant's job to make sure that they aren't misusing that power. What's the point of a power exchange if the submissive partner isn't being fulfilled?


I think maybe the difference is in our respective appraches to this... where your leanings are more towards Dom/sub, our is Master/slave.  So the road to said "fulfillment" and definition of "misuse" is likely different between us. One person's Hell may be another's Heaven.



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(in reply to jujubeeMB)
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RE: Is Dominance An Altered Language Of Affection? - 3/12/2010 7:27:18 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB
I do still disagree with you about the essence of power exchange. Yes, it's about surrendering power and control to the Dominant, but it's the Dominant's job to make sure that they aren't misusing that power. What's the point of a power exchange if the submissive partner isn't being fulfilled?


I think maybe the difference is in our respective appraches to this... where your leanings are more towards Dom/sub, our is Master/slave.  So the road to said "fulfillment" and definition of "misuse" is likely different between us. One person's Hell may be another's Heaven.



Very smart and true. We're probably both right. Or both wrong

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 40
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