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Capitalism - 3/11/2010 4:28:53 PM   
subfever


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We're still in the dark ages.
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RE: Capitalism - 3/11/2010 4:40:28 PM   
Politesub53


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And all to pay for his daughters health care. It about sums things up.

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RE: Capitalism - 3/11/2010 5:09:15 PM   
subfever


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His daughter needed money to relocate.

The reason he no longer had his own money to give her, is because he spent it all on his wife's health care.

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RE: Capitalism - 3/11/2010 5:14:05 PM   
Jeffff


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What about his responsibility? Did he read the agreement?


seems not...... oh well.... in this instance, stupid really DOES hurt

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RE: Capitalism - 3/11/2010 5:15:43 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

His daughter needed money to relocate.

The reason he no longer had his own money to give her, is because he spent it all on his wife's health care.


Yes sorry, I misread it.

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RE: Capitalism - 3/11/2010 7:30:52 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

What about his responsibility? Did he read the agreement?


seems not...... oh well.... in this instance, stupid really DOES hurt


Do you read all your agreements?

The last time I received a new credit card it came with so much paperwork and documentation it would have taken me an entire day to read and translate from legalese into English.

Which is the point.  These companies inundate people with so much bullshit that no one has the time or patience to go through it all and they believe what the salesperson tells them, until they get a rude awakening when the company applies the terms that the customer did not understand or did not see.    

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RE: Capitalism - 3/11/2010 8:16:28 PM   
ShoreBound149


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I've learned that if you find yourself seeking money at a place called "The Cash Store"..........or at a MAC machine at 3:30am......you're probably making a big mistake.

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RE: Capitalism - 3/11/2010 8:20:18 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

What about his responsibility? Did he read the agreement?


seems not...... oh well.... in this instance, stupid really DOES hurt


Then you approve of exploiting the less sophisticated?

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RE: Capitalism - 3/11/2010 8:20:59 PM   
DedicatedDom40


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This is why you don't hear about loan sharks anymore. The things they did, illegally, were made legal, and mainstreamed into our banking system.

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RE: Capitalism - 3/12/2010 6:31:49 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DedicatedDom40

This is why you don't hear about loan sharks anymore. The things they did, illegally, were made legal, and mainstreamed into our banking system.


I saw a real loan shark on TV that stated they had more ethics than banks these days...

The loan shark said that their interest rates were often lower than payday advance companies and that they know their clients so if they get sick and can't work or their family gets sick they will work with them...that is pretty freaking sad when loan sharks are kinder and gentler than some offering legit credit


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RE: Capitalism - 3/12/2010 7:08:47 AM   
windchymes


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Of course no one approves of exploiting the less-sophisticated. But people will do it. They've been doing it since the beginning of time, back when your own survival may have depended on it. Hell, my ex-husband came home cackling with glee every time he managed to over-inflate a job estimate and screw another unwitting soul out of money. (It's one reason we're not together anymore.) There are always people looking to screw other people out of money, that's just a way of life, and it ain't going to go away any time soon.

What I do approve of is a movement to teach people TO BE more responsible for themselves and to stop using excuses like, "I didn't know, they buried it in the fine print". Well, either you figure out a way to read it and act accordingly or you're going to keep getting screwed. YOU and only you are responsible for yourself. If it means reading fine print, then buy a magnifying glass. I've done it. That's how I saw the clause in my HBSC credit card about increasing your credit limit....they're happy to do it, it's even one of their selling points, but you have to deposit an equal amount into the account first. It turns out to be a pre-paid credit increase. I walked away and paid cash for what I needed. Be suspicious and ask questions. If something sounds too good to be true.......you know the rest.

I'm sorry for the gentleman in the story, but had he put a little extra time into it, instead of taking the quick route, he could have found the credit union and done it the sensible way all along. I also would never have dreamed of hitting up my father for $5000, but that's another story.

This same thing happens all the time in those Rent-a-Center type places. Sure, only a few bucks a week for that plasma screen, yee haw, get what you want and get it NOW. Except that the contract is for so many weeks that by the time you get done paying for it, the total cost is three times what you could have gotten it for normally. But you can figure that out up front if you just take a little calculator and multiply the payment x number of weeks on the contract. If you aren't willing to pay out that kind of money,then walk away. Put that money in the bank, and in a few months, you'll probably have enough to pay a decent price cash, no interest. Easy peasy. Don't sign the contract to get what you want NOW and act shocked later on because it's costing so much.

You HAVE to take care of yourself, put forth the extra effort, and be willing to walk away from the easy road & look for that harder one.

And I hope this doesn't give payday loan and pawn shops a bad name. Some of them I know personally are very reputable.

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RE: Capitalism - 3/12/2010 7:13:20 AM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

What about his responsibility? Did he read the agreement?


seems not...... oh well.... in this instance, stupid really DOES hurt


Then you approve of exploiting the less sophisticated?


I approve of personal responsibilty. I approve of people being aware of what they are doing.

How many people financed their lifstyle on inflated home equity? How many of those folks are now so upside down in their homes they are fucked?

Is it the banks fault alone for that?

I say no.

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RE: Capitalism - 3/12/2010 8:40:00 AM   
Musicmystery


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Granted.

However, a basic assumption of market systems is that buyers and sellers have open and equal information.

This is clearly not the case--and is in fact deliberately obfuscated.

I'm all for legal requirements that address that.

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RE: Capitalism - 3/12/2010 8:53:10 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes


What I do approve of is a movement to teach people TO BE more responsible for themselves and to stop using excuses like, "I didn't know, they buried it in the fine print". Well, either you figure out a way to read it and act accordingly or you're going to keep getting screwed. YOU and only you are responsible for yourself. If it means reading fine print, then buy a magnifying glass. I've done it. That's how I saw the clause in my HBSC credit card about increasing your credit limit....they're happy to do it, it's even one of their selling points, but you have to deposit an equal amount into the account first. It turns out to be a pre-paid credit increase. I walked away and paid cash for what I needed. Be suspicious and ask questions. If something sounds too good to be true.......you know the rest.


I'm going to ask this again, since you seem to believe, along with some others here, in "let the buyer beware".

Do you thoroughly read and understand every agreement you sign your name to?

Do you spend the time to go through it page by page so you completely understand what you are agreeing to?




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RE: Capitalism - 3/12/2010 8:59:08 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

What about his responsibility? Did he read the agreement?


seems not...... oh well.... in this instance, stupid really DOES hurt


Then you approve of exploiting the less sophisticated?


I approve of personal responsibilty. I approve of people being aware of what they are doing.

How many people financed their lifstyle on inflated home equity? How many of those folks are now so upside down in their homes they are fucked?

Is it the banks fault alone for that?

I say no.



Really?

So when a company has a team of legal consultants who put together a document meant to protect the company you expect an average person to read and comprehend all they are agreeing to without the benefit of their own legal team?

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RE: Capitalism - 3/12/2010 9:03:04 AM   
windchymes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Granted.

However, a basic assumption of market systems is that buyers and sellers have open and equal information.

This is clearly not the case--and is in fact deliberately obfuscated.

I'm all for legal requirements that address that.


I totally agree with having legal requirements, Tim. BUT I also agree with the advocation of personal responsibility ALONG WITH the legal requirements. Because, once again, it leaves wide open the inclinaton to not take personal responsibility and fall right back on "Well, it was supposed to be legally required, I didn't know, it's not my fault....."

I say this at work all the time.....we can't operate on "shoulda's" and "suppos'das", we have to operate on What Is.

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

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RE: Capitalism - 3/12/2010 9:07:06 AM   
windchymes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes


What I do approve of is a movement to teach people TO BE more responsible for themselves and to stop using excuses like, "I didn't know, they buried it in the fine print". Well, either you figure out a way to read it and act accordingly or you're going to keep getting screwed. YOU and only you are responsible for yourself. If it means reading fine print, then buy a magnifying glass. I've done it. That's how I saw the clause in my HBSC credit card about increasing your credit limit....they're happy to do it, it's even one of their selling points, but you have to deposit an equal amount into the account first. It turns out to be a pre-paid credit increase. I walked away and paid cash for what I needed. Be suspicious and ask questions. If something sounds too good to be true.......you know the rest.


I'm going to ask this again, since you seem to believe, along with some others here, in "let the buyer beware".

Do you thoroughly read and understand every agreement you sign your name to?

Do you spend the time to go through it page by page so you completely understand what you are agreeing to?






Yes, I do, and yes, I have!!! I bought a house a year ago, and I at least skimmed through every single one of those 900 documents (it seemed like!) before signing them, and closing probably took an hour longer than most people. If I didn't understand a paragraph, I asked the agent to explain it.

I don't sign ANY contract unless I've read it and understand it. And if you do, then you are being foolish.

I don't advocate "let the buyer beware." I advocate "let the buyer be responsible."

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: Capitalism - 3/12/2010 9:07:14 AM   
Musicmystery


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I don't think anyone is seriously arguing against that.

We do, however, have an environment where agreement terms change on the fly. I'm then expected to stop everything, reexamine the agreement, and reconsider---where my options are agree or close out the position.

That's not a reasonable standard. Because it's so accepted, I've stopped doing any new business, cash only.

I'd do more business if I could do it without riding legal herd on the agreement constantly. But I can't, so I don't.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/12/2010 9:10:16 AM >

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RE: Capitalism - 3/12/2010 9:08:47 AM   
Jeffff


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Yes, just like when you buy a house, or a car, or accept the terms for a credit card.  If  people were aware. shit like this wouldn't happen.

I was having dinner one night with a woman who told Me this story about how she sent some poor guy in Africa 2000.00. No shit, she actually sent it. you might find it hard to believe , but after he got the money, she couldn't get in contact with him again. Stupid people are everywhere.

And no, I did not see her again...:)

< Message edited by Jeffff -- 3/12/2010 9:09:54 AM >


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RE: Capitalism - 3/12/2010 9:11:30 AM   
Musicmystery


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I'm amazed at how often college students--and professors--fall for phishing scams.

It's true people just don't think things through.

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