RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 12:36:37 PM)

So now in addition to your public embracing of realone...you have chosen to voice support for cucky.....just how far down the rabbit hole do you intend to go hunky?
Again,and for the love of whatever god you choose to believe in seek help immediately!




Apocalypso -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 12:38:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
You'll have to expound on your point, as I don't get it.

Firm

I'm saying that passage makes it clear that the responsibility for helping the poor applies to societies as well as individuals.

I think Beck's position here can fairly be called heretical.




FirmhandKY -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 12:55:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
You'll have to expound on your point, as I don't get it.

Firm

I'm saying that passage makes it clear that the responsibility for helping the poor applies to societies as well as individuals.

I think Beck's position here can fairly be called heretical.



Depending on how you are defining your terms, I'm not sure that follows.

"Society" doesn't necessarily include nor is synonymous with "the government".

For example, your biblical citation (which I've not checked to confirm) does not mention the ruler, rulers or governmental elements of Sodom. It could be that it means that there was no charity in the hearts of any of the people of the city. 

Was not this the same city in which Lot was asked to find (in the end) a single worthy or moral man in order to save the city from destruction - and failed?

Firm




FirmhandKY -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 1:09:46 PM)


Ok, I looked around a bit on "social justice":

Social Justice:

Social justice is also a concept that some use to describe the movement towards a socially just world. In this context, social justice is based on the concepts of human rights and equality and involves a greater degree of economic egalitarianism through progressive taxation, income redistribution, or even property redistribution, policies aimed toward achieving that which developmental economists refer to as more equality of opportunity and equality of outcome than may currently exist in some societies or are available to some classes in a given society.

Like many things that sound good, the devil is in the details.

I basically agree to a world "based on the concepts of human rights and equality", but I strongly disagree on the methods of  "progressive taxation, income redistribution, or even property redistribution" to achieve those aims.

I'm not prepared to make the argument that Jesus would support any of the three implementation legs of "social justice" that involved the use of force in order to achieve them.

Firm




jlf1961 -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 1:13:06 PM)

For those that seem to have no idea what social justice is, or isn't, this may help. Of course, those that think that the poor or those who have no health insurance shouldn't have any rights or privileges that are entitled to citizens who have money, ways and means and can afford health insurance wont give a flying fuck.


quote:

The political philosopher John Rawls draws on the utilitarian insights of Bentham and Mill, the social contract ideas of Locke, and the categorical imperative ideas of Kant. His first statement of principle was made in A Theory of Justice (1971) where he proposed that, "Each person possesses an inviolability founded on justice that even the welfare of society as a whole cannot override. For this reason justice denies that the loss of freedom for some is made right by a greater good shared by others." A deontological proposition that echoes Kant in framing the moral good of justice in absolutist terms. His views are definitively restated in Political Liberalism (1993), where society is seen, "as a fair system of co-operation over time, from one generation to the next."

All societies have a basic structure of social, economic, and political institutions, both formal and informal. In testing how well these elements fit and work together, Rawls based a key test of legitimacy on the theories of social contract. To determine whether any particular system of collectively enforced social arrangements is legitimate, he argued that one must look for agreement by the people who are subject to it, but not necessarily to an objective notion of justice based on coherent ideological grounding. Obviously, not every citizen can be asked to participate in a poll to determine his or her consent to every proposal in which some degree of coercion is involved, so one has to assume that all citizens are reasonable. Rawls constructed an argument for a two-stage process to determine a citizen's hypothetical agreement:

* the citizen agrees to be represented by X for certain purposes; to that extent, X holds these powers as a trustee for the citizen;
* X agrees that a use of enforcement in a particular social context is legitimate; the citizen, therefore, is bound by this decision because it is the function of the trustee to represent the citizen in this way.

This applies to one person representing a small group (e.g. to the organiser of a social event setting a dress code) as equally as it does to national governments which are the ultimate trustees, holding representative powers for the benefit of all citizens within their territorial boundaries, and if those governments fail to provide for the welfare of their citizens according to the principles of justice, they are not legitimate. To emphasise the general principle that justice should rise from the people and not be dictated by the law-making powers of governments, Rawls asserted that, "There is . . . a general presumption against imposing legal and other restrictions on conduct without sufficient reason. But this presumption creates no special priority for any particular liberty." (at pp291–292) This is support for an unranked set of liberties that reasonable citizens in all states should respect and uphold — to some extent, the list proposed by Rawls matches the normative human rights that have international recognition and direct enforcement in some nation states where the citizens need encouragement to act in a way that fixes a greater degree of equality of outcome.




cuckyman -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:02:24 PM)

kiss my ass...




mnottertail -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:04:26 PM)

Gatorbait,

Sometimes we just gotta ask ourselves; 'What would jesus say?'

Know what I mean?




Musicmystery -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:05:52 PM)

"I will make you ass-kissers of men"?

[;)]




slvemike4u -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:06:53 PM)

I'm pretty sure "kiss my ass" would not be something Jesus would be caught saying.
But who knows,after meeting cucky even Jesus might get a little bent out of shape.




cuckyman -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:10:28 PM)

Social Justice is a bullshit liberal term to attempt to justify their anti-freedom, anti-liberty stupidity.... and I have news for you moron, this AIN'T YOUR COUNTRY.... you are a little socialist puke trying to masquarade as an American, and no doubt unworthy of being called an American.....  Obama's image of an america that only he and idiots like you see will never be.... either live and let live, or get your gun....its coming down to put up or shut up...and the real america is armed to the teeth and is ready to run pond scum libs out of here if that is what it takes.... put that in your pipe and suck on it.....




cuckyman -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:12:17 PM)

Where exactly in the constitution does it say that I am OBLIGATED to help anyone?....  assholes like this are true testamony on how stupid this generation is....sad....




Jeffff -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:14:11 PM)

How's your ulcer? cucky? I worry about you




cuckyman -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:14:59 PM)

and that justifies why I should pay for some drunk in Vermont's health care bill....riiiiiiigggghhhhtttt...!!. What little socialist college did you attend o Obama mouth?




jlf1961 -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:16:10 PM)

No where does it say you have to cucky, but it does say the government is responsible for promoting the general welfare of the people, unless you think we should throw out parts of the constitution

quote:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.



However, if you are a christian, Jesus commands us to take care of others, unless of course you wish to deny that fact, perhaps you have some new version of the bible that deletes most of Jesus' teachings.




cuckyman -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:17:11 PM)

Pal, I THRIVE on kicking liberal asses.....makes my day....just like the smell of napolm in the morning...kinda smells like victory.....




Jeffff -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:18:50 PM)

Apocalypse now!... right?.... gimme another one I love movie trivia!




jlf1961 -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:20:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

Pal, I THRIVE on kicking liberal asses.....makes my day....just like the smell of napolm (actually it is spelled napAlm) in the morning...kinda smells like victory.....



Might try spelling correctly and using paragraphs if you wish to present an intelligent argument. Of course, you sure seem to not know anything about the responsibilities of a government to the people. Perhaps you were absent when you should have been taking civics.




cuckyman -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:24:14 PM)

now you are getting somewhere....the word 'promote' is a long way from the word 'CONTROL'.... and the commerce clause is a means to justify liberal shit for far too long...never did the founders have a desire for the federal government to get involved in anything approaching what it (Obama) is pushing....and make no mistake, this the equivalent of 'Pickett's Charge' for the dems.... once the smoke clears from health care dying in the congress for lack of votes...then its OVER for this administration...and for the 'progressives' for a long long long long time.....can't wait for the numbnut dems to have to come home on Easter recess to face the screaming lynch mobs that will be there to greet them..... I bet they go hide in a basement...too chicken shit to face the voters.... Nevada is ready to tie Harry Reid on a fireant hill....the Apache's were so good at teaching that little form of correcting one's attitude..... hope Harry enjoys his trip back to 'Searchlight'....wonder if he will be able to board the plane back to DC....




juliaoceania -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:29:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

Take a look at the poll numbers numbnuts....go out and actually talk to people outside of your little circle of idiots and you will discover that a vast majority of people are running out of patience with loud mouth, know it all turds that think they are 'owed' something by taking from others..... Our nation is founded on LIBERTY...and that means freedom from a confiscatory government run out of control with lame assholes like you that claim 'social justice'..... what social justice?.... to change the nation to be as you and your ilk want?....by what right?.... Where is it that you think you can take what is not yours?.... Well bud, I have news for you.... even if it takes Nullification, a big chunk of this land is armed, and ready to show you that you will NEVER succeed in your twisted little idiology..... we WILL prevail and you will be left in the dustbin of stupidity that you so richly deserve.... so read em or not..... try imagining how you and that idot Obama think you can cram this shit down our throats and not draw back a bloody stump where your brain once was..... We will FIGHT you with any means and by ALL means...and that means open armed conflict.... there is an old saying that simply says,  "Don't mess with Texas"...and that applies all over the middle of this land, ...we have fought for our freedoms from idiots like you....and we will again if needed..... and that includes all who love the rights of economic and individual liberties that is the only glue that holds this nation together..... try taking that away by whatever means and you will find yourselves as the hunted.... and Obama won't be able to save your ignorant ass.... You are nothing more than a socialist fool.....!


I am loving this, Obama won the election, he will probably win 2012.. so get the fuck over yourself[:D]

I am loving the fact that assholes like you only like the constitution and elections when it suits you... HE IS YOUR PRESIDENT... ha ha ha ha ha


Now suck on that asshat.

(and I am not even an Obama supporter, but I may vote for him again just to watch right wingnuts heads explode)




slvemike4u -> RE: Glenn Beck Claims that Jesus Christ Opposed Social Justice (3/12/2010 2:39:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

Social Justice is a bullshit liberal term to attempt to justify their anti-freedom, anti-liberty stupidity.... and I have news for you moron, this AIN'T YOUR COUNTRY.... you are a little socialist puke trying to masquarade as an American, and no doubt unworthy of being called an American.....  Obama's image of an america that only he and idiots like you see will never be.... either live and let live, or get your gun....its coming down to put up or shut up...and the real america is armed to the teeth and is ready to run pond scum libs out of here if that is what it takes.... put that in your pipe and suck on it.....
You must be a real "hoot and hollar' sort of guy to have a drink with at the local watering hole.....a real ray of feel good sunshine type of guy!




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