quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

For clarification purposes when you state "as long as the government does not take any stance that either encourages or discourages,supports or condemns that behavior."
Are you referring to the right of gay and lesbian members of our society to enjoy all the rights of that society.....particularly speaking of the right to have their union recognised in the same way hetero r/t's are recognised by the state?

Sorry, but you won't drag me into a useless debate about gay "marriage".  I'll simply say that the government recognizing legal unions between homosexuals is neither encouraging or discouraging, supporting or condemning.  Who cares what they call it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And we don't need to debate the issues here---just separate out what they are.

quote:

I think its a great thread Muse, honestly. I believe that the questions raised are fair.

quote:

More Americans by a good margin define themselves as conservative than liberal. Do you recall that thread?

quote:

The center, here in the United States, is Conservative. Not far right, but center right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

The majority of the posters on CM who identify themselves as "non-center" are pretty damn far left, in comparison to the beliefs of most Americans.

I suspect it's the fact that so many of the "left" here act as an echo chamber for each other, that they believe that they are somehow "in the majority".

Firm

Here's the thing, though, Firm.

Everything is presented as left vs. right, as if no other possibilities exist.

But the majority of people are moderate. The left/right paradigm is a distortion.

So what are these moderate views? Discount those you see as on the left, and set aside your views where you see them as conservative---what are the moderate positions?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Woolrich

This is probably the wrong place to make a first post but....

Only having two parties leads to polarization that can't reflect reality. Two parties can't show the variety of viewpoints held by the populace or the range of problems we confront and need to solve.

In government systems where there are multiple parties, you see nuance of thought that can't exist in a two-party system. A good example are socially conservative parties in Europe that are also rabidly pro-environment. Here in the United States, when I've mentioned such parties, people sometimes look at me as if that's inconceivable.

So I'd argue that the fact we have a term for "moderates" that can't be described is a symptom of our broken political system. It shows that people are unhappy with the extremes that they are presented with but they don't have any other model, name, party or way to describe themselves except as "leaning right" or "leaning left" in some vague way.

quote:


Primarily, most Americans - and most moderate Americans - are generally "liberal" on social issues, and "conservative" on financial and governmental issues.

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The problem,IMO is that both parties respond to the noisiest and most active extremes of their respective base...which in both cases would fall outside the "center" veiwpoint.
The true "center" is the actual "silent majority" Agnew mischaracterized in the early 70's

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

This is what I call "moderate", willing to change one's mind to be open to solutions because it is what seems "logical" at the time and what is "best".... in other words, not basing positions based upon ideology...

I find moderation very tiresome to be honest... moderates base their opinions on the prevailing wisdom of the talking heads on TV, and they can be swayed, sometimes in a direction that doesn't actually favor them...

julia,

These two paragraphs appear to contradict each other.

Clarify?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR

What is center versus left/right? In many cases it is holding the nuanced position on an issue.

For instance on abortion the left position is that abortion should be available on demand with minimal restraints and the rights position is abortion should be illegal except to save the life of the mother (roughly in both cases). The centrist position seeks for abortion to be "safe, legal and rare" and is open to various restraints on when the procedure can be done.

quote:

I don't think "center" can be defined in the US as anything except the vast area separating modern day conservatives and liberals. I specify modern day since both conservative and liberal views have shifted quite a bit over time.

On both of the two extremes, we find a combination of a few very bright and critical thinkers along with an amorphous pod of true believers. Oh, and a few rabble rousers thrown in to excite the pod. The thinkers, unfortunately, have difficulty tempering their utopian beliefs with practical reality and the pod has difficulty thinking for themselves at all. The pod is an angry lot on both sides, viewing variance from their extremes as a personal affront to their human rights.

The far right and far left have a jolly time polarizing the big issues of society. The rest of us find them merely bewildering. Here in the center, it is possible to be firmly pro labor yet anti big government, pro individual freedoms yet anti abortion, pro social security yet anti welfare, and the list goes on and on.

So I define the center as those who refuse the lure of knee jerk dogma and approach life with a more practical eye. As implied in Woolrich's comment above, neither the right nor the left represent the center. Not even vaguely. Yet the polarization or our simplistic two party system effectively guarantees that the center gets screwed. We now see the horrifying result of that: both Republicans and Democrats put forward policies that are more about maintaining wealth and power than about the mature husbandry of a great country.

In short, center right is meaningless.

quote:


The center, here in the United States, is Conservative. Not far right, but center right.