Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center!


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 9:43:46 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
I'm agreeable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I'd still be interested in hearing what's "center right" vs. "conservative" vs. "hard right" from you folks on the right.
quote:


And I might be interested in discussing my views


OK. Do tell, please.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 9:44:47 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		So then, what?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 9:57:07 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		To rephrase, for the centrist conservatives--

What positions would be to the right of you? Too conservative for your views?

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 10:06:51 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Since you've agreed to play nicely, let's look at what's being defined. 

As far as people, I think we all understand that there are individuals who hold extreme views at either end.  But assigning those beliefs to anyone who calls themselves either "conservative" or "liberal" is unfair.  I believe most people have a little more depth than to strictly adhere to one side or the other and hold varying beliefs throughout the spectrum.

You ask what is "center right"... I'm afraid there isn't really an answer other than to say that it's a label used to convey the vague idea that the person considers themselves somewhere in the middle... possessing beliefs both conservative and liberal, but perhaps a few more on the conservative side than the liberal side.

When it comes to issues, I don't believe the term "center right" applies well.  As others have stated, ideas tend to range from conservative to moderate to liberal.  Where an issue is pegged on that scale depends a lot on each individual's perception.  For example, a position I consider to be fairly moderate might be viewed as extremely conservative by someone who has a more liberal mindset.

In other words, it's all really subjective.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 10:09:59 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		OK, fair enough. But here's a question.

From those center right folks, they see a lot of what they label as liberal. Yet they don't seem to see anything to the right of them.

That doesn't seem to place them in the center.

So what's on the right of these centrists?



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/12/2010 10:10:41 PM >

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 10:27:49 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK, fair enough. But here's a question.

From those center right folks, they see a lot of what they label as liberal. Yet they don't seem to see anything to the right of them.

That doesn't seem to place them in the center.

So what's on the right of these centrists?


That's a fair question, but I don't think it's quite as black and white as you make it out to be. 

Typically when I label something as liberal, it's not so much the position as it is the mindset.

For example, when it comes to education I consider the trend toward "touchy-feely" to be liberal and far to the left of my ideology.  While I wouldn't advocate an environment of strict regimen and corporal punishment in the schools, I do believe the current practice of coddling children and rewarding minimal effort to be detrimental.  We're raising generations of children who expect the world to cater to their frailties and encouraging attitudes of entitlement.

So, yes... I might identify a viewpoint as being liberal, but just because I don't equally identify the opposite extreme, it isn't that I don't see that there are viewpoints further to the right.  Being right of center, I'm more opposed to those mindsets that are on the left.


< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 3/12/2010 10:32:14 PM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 10:32:51 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I frequently get (mis)labeled as liberal, and about education, I completely agree with you. And the strict position you'd oppose doesn't exist.

Puts us back in the center, doesn't it. With what on the right?

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 10:37:31 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I frequently get (mis)labeled as liberal, and about education, I completely agree with you. And the strict position you'd oppose doesn't exist.

Puts us back in the center, doesn't it. With what on the right?


I wouldn't say that the extreme conservative position doesn't exist on education.  There are those who would advocate a military-type discipline in education... a pass or fail mentality with no room for children who don't quite fit the mold.  I wouldn't go that far to the right.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 10:55:54 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

That's a fair question, but I don't think it's quite as black and white as you make it out to be. 

Typically when I label something as liberal, it's not so much the position as it is the mindset.

For example, when it comes to education I consider the trend toward "touchy-feely" to be liberal and far to the left of my ideology.  While I wouldn't advocate an environment of strict regimen and corporal punishment in the schools, I do believe the current practice of coddling children and rewarding minimal effort to be detrimental.  We're raising generations of children who expect the world to cater to their frailties and encouraging attitudes of entitlement.



While claiming it is not back and white you then go on to say it is black and white, as long as the black and white agrees with your own mindset.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 11:01:43 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I dunno whether you can say where anyone stands. If you were to take Sanity (or almost anyone else for that matter) and plunk him in the middle of a PETA meeting, he'd be a diehard reactionary conservative.  Take that same person and plop him in a Tea Party bunch, and he'd be a flaming liberal.  In other words, I consider political leaning to be relative.



G1

which is why this whole thread is nothing more than parlor chatter for old hens during afternoon tea


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 11:02:28 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


For example, when it comes to education I consider the trend toward "touchy-feely" to be liberal and far to the left of my ideology.  While I wouldn't advocate an environment of strict regimen and corporal punishment in the schools, I do believe the current practice of coddling children and rewarding minimal effort to be detrimental.  We're raising generations of children who expect the world to cater to their frailties and encouraging attitudes of entitlement.



Let's expand on that.

What do you see as coddling children and rewarding minimal effort?

They are lovely conservative buzzwords but what do they mean?

For that matter, what constitutes catering to their frailties and encouraging an entitlement attitude? 

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 11:13:29 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

While claiming it is not back and white you then go on to say it is black and white, as long as the black and white agrees with your own mindset.


For me, it is... when I'm speaking of my own personal viewpoints.

As I've said, it's subjective.  Just because I label myself as center-right, if I consider something to the left of my ideology, that doesn't automatically mean that there aren't viewpoints that I consider far to the right of me, also.  There may or may not be depending upon the issue in question, but just because I don't identify them, it doesn't mean they don't exist.

But I don't expect my viewpoints to be shared by everyone else who claims to be "center-right".   Another "center-right" person may not agree with my positions, but that does not invalidate how they label themselves. 

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 11:41:17 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		Using FR:

I'm sure many of you have seen this before, but it may apply here:

http://politicalcompass.org/

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 11:46:33 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

To rephrase, for the centrist conservatives--

What positions would be to the right of you? Too conservative for your views?



creating the trap and a cesspool of meaningless labels


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 11:48:22 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		While I'm flattered by your fascination with me, I'm sending you back to block.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 11:50:22 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Let's expand on that.

What do you see as coddling children and rewarding minimal effort?

They are lovely conservative buzzwords but what do they mean?

For that matter, what constitutes catering to their frailties and encouraging an entitlement attitude? 


*sighs*  I'd prefer to say let's not.

However, to help illustrate the mindset I'll give an example...

When my oldest son was in second grade, his teacher called me in to discuss a problem she was having in getting him to do his work in class.  Asking what methods she had tried, I discovered that she had tried several different ways to "bribe" and cajole him, and the only consequence for his recalcitrance was to have his "card turned".  It turned out that each child had been assigned a number and a card with each number was placed on pegs under the blackboard.  When a student "misbehaved", his or her card was turned over as "punishment".  Of course, to avoid public embarrassment the number assigned to a child was known only to the teacher and the individual child.

My suggestion to the teacher was to use a method that had been very effective for me when I was in second grade and did not complete an assignment required during class time.  My teacher gently escorted me and my little desk out into the hallway to finish my work.  She was not unkind about it and simply explained that the rest of the class was ready to move on with the lesson.  Of course, I was mortified at being separated... and worse, what if the principal were to come by while I was in the hall?! 

Needless to say I survived the embarrassment, but the end result was that I learned to avoid bad consequences by doing what was required, when it was required.

My son's teacher was appalled by my suggestion claiming that they could not possible subject any child to such a humiliating punishment.  Instead she asked that I find some reward at home to give him for doing what he needed to do. 

I'm sorry, but as I explained to her, life does not work that way.  We do not get a gold star from the electric company for paying our bill on time... police officers do not pull us over to praise us for obeying traffic laws... and our employers don't offer us an extra 10 minute break if we show up to work on time.

We do what we need to do because we want to avoid the unpleasant consequences that we'd suffer if we don't.  If those consequences aren't unpleasant, it kind of defeats the purpose.

As for catering to frailties and encouraging an entitlement attitude... well, it all falls along the same lines.  I didn't waltz out of school expecting to command a six figure income right off the bat.  I can't expect to get a promotion or raise at work simply because I showed up every day.  My boss isn't going to give me a pass on that report I wrote that was filled with spelling errors simply because I made a good effort to do it. 

Unfortunately, I see far too many of the younger generations who truly cannot understand why the real world doesn't work the way it did in school when they got a prize just for playing.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/12/2010 11:55:37 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Treasure,

Exactly. It's the "self-esteem" movement run amok. How the hell does, "It's OK, I understand you're just not good enough" build self-esteem?

As a child, I faced difficult challenges, and was thrilled when I finally overcame them. That was the reward, and those lessons served me well later in life.

Kid today--including college students--just learn to dodge, twist and manipulate. Everybody's a victim, so no one is responsible for their actions.

It's absolute bullshit, but woe to any who try to buck the gospel.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/12/2010 11:56:18 PM >

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 12:03:24 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Just because I label myself as center-right, if I consider something to the left of my ideology, that doesn't automatically mean that there aren't viewpoints that I consider far to the right of me, also.  There may or may not be depending upon the issue in question, but just because I don't identify them, it doesn't mean they don't exist.


thats the beauty of being sovereign.  not of the body. we dont have that need to attach a corporate definitions to ourselves nor to validate ourselves based on scale.  the concept escapes most.  I am.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 12:05:40 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

... It's the "self-esteem" movement run amok.


Absolutely.  And the other swing of the pendulum are those who would return to the days of sitting the child in front of the class with a "dunce" hat on. 

Is ours a "center" or "moderate" viewpoint, or is it just sane and normal one? 

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 12:14:08 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

... It's the "self-esteem" movement run amok.


Absolutely.  And the other swing of the pendulum are those who would return to the days of sitting the child in front of the class with a "dunce" hat on. 

Is ours a "center" or "moderate" viewpoint, or is it just sane and normal one? 



public loonacy which is what you just described is what is fueling the home school movement


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 120
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078