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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 6:46:05 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It's an anecdotal list, not a comprehensive data list, but just the same, it says what I mentioned earlier, that while some are cutting, community colleges are bursting at the seams.

We haven't cut enrollment here. We've had an increase in applications steadily over the past decade. But then, we have international programs ramping up too. I'm not sure what percentage of our enrollment that is. I just teach the ones that show up for class the first day.

A few related links--
http://www.nextstudent.com/student-loan-blog/blogs/sample_weblog/archive/2009/04/02/15781.aspx
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/education/higher_education_institutions_and_enrollment.html
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2010/02/27/4646364.htm


The trend is statewide here, as that article says...

I live with this reality in my world, it is discussed often at my campus and there are rallies about it... so it is not just that article that is informing my knowledge... it is something that gets talked about in my environment at least weekly.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 241
RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 6:47:35 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Tazzy, please I went out of my way to try to express that I was giving my own opinion.....honest I wasn't judging you nor any other posters "parenting" skills...just offering my views...I'm sorry you saw my post in such a light....believe me it wasn't meant to come off that way


I did not read your post as an attack on anyone....


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 242
RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 6:50:45 PM   
slvemike4u


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Thankyou...

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 6:51:46 PM   
tazzygirl


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Oh mike hun, i didnt take it as an attack, nor was i wanting to sound defensive. its ok hun... your still the cutie around here!

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 6:52:59 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And the cause is? yet you cannot lable the symptoms in order for a diagnosis of the problem.


The cause is the outdated and hopelessly corrupt economic system, largely based upon fear and greed.



Expand a bit more, please.

Whose greed?

Whose fear?

And how are these affecting the educational system?


Our economic system is predicated upon debt/credit, and profit by way of consumer goods, services and finance. Planned scarcity is built into the system. Without scarcity, items have no value. Can't sell the air that we breathe.

Because we are in a profit-driven system, the collective good of humanity will always be secondary to the corporate bottom line. Mortgage the future in exchange for short-term results is the norm.

Health care becomes profit-driven instead of a basic human right. The sustainability of the biosphere becomes secondary to increased profit.

Anyone paying any attention at all realizes that government has become the operative for corporate/financial interests. Good grief, corporations can even patent life forms now.

2% of the people own 50% of the wealth.

The job pool is shrinking, due to technology and outsourcing. Technology isn't going to stop.

We're taught from an early age, we'd better get a good education to get ahead in the world. The early bird gets the worm. Competition. Wave the flag. Get in there and play the game. Be a man. Pay your taxes or go to jail. Fear and greed.

When a doctor recommends a procedure, how can we ever really know for sure that he isn't just late with a yacht payment without getting a 2nd opinion? When a financial planner makes a recommendation, how can we know for sure he's not primarily interested in the commission he generates?

We can't. Greed and fear will always exist in this system. People will always fear becoming unable to extract enough money out of the system, to make ends meet.

Yet, most of us support this. Worse yet, our education prepares us for this system.

What else can education do now, besides preparing to play this corrupt game?


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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 6:53:49 PM   
thornhappy


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They are cutting offerings, though; my alma mater sent out email about it.  It's making it harder for people to graduate on time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

colleges are shrinking their enrollments


This isn't true either, except at selected schools.

In general, private schools might cut back a bit in a recession, while community college enrollment is up quite significantly.

Overall, more students attend college than ever before.
http://nces.ed.gov/fastFacts/display.asp?id=98

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Profile   Post #: 246
RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 6:55:11 PM   
slvemike4u


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Aww shit tazzy......now I'm blushing.


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 247
RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 6:55:13 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
It's an anecdotal list, not a comprehensive data list, but just the same, it says what I mentioned earlier, that while some are cutting, community colleges are bursting at the seams.

We haven't cut enrollment here. We've had an increase in applications steadily over the past decade. But then, we have international programs ramping up too. I'm not sure what percentage of our enrollment that is. I just teach the ones that show up for class the first day.

A few related links--
http://www.nextstudent.com/student-loan-blog/blogs/sample_weblog/archive/2009/04/02/15781.aspx
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/education/higher_education_institutions_and_enrollment.html
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2010/02/27/4646364.htm

The trend is statewide here, as that article says...

I live with this reality in my world, it is discussed often at my campus and there are rallies about it... so it is not just that article that is informing my knowledge... it is something that gets talked about in my environment at least weekly.

Yet another reason I'm glad I don't live in California.

Like much else in California, apparently the state doesn't want to fund it:
"The California Community Colleges -- the largest higher education system in the United States -- are projecting a 1 percent dip in enrollment this year. The shift reverses five years of enrollment growth, which brought the total number enrolled to nearly 3 million last year. In a press briefing, Jack Scott attributed the drop to deep budget cuts, which have in turn forced colleges to eliminate course sections. Statewide, he said, about 5 percent of course sections have been eliminated. “Our enrollment is not dropping due to a lack of demand,” he said. He noted that the community colleges statewide are actually educating about 200,000 more students than the state is providing funds for -- further stretching the capacity of the colleges."
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/02/25/qt/california_community_colleges_see_enrollment_dip
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/25/local/la-me-colleges25-2010feb25

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 6:55:48 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever
Anyone paying any attention at all realizes that government has become the operative for corporate/financial interests. Good grief, corporations can even patent life forms now.

This has been true for 30 years.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 249
RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 6:57:59 PM   
Musicmystery


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Skyrocketing Public College Enrollment Demand Projected for California

Contact: [email protected]
Public Information
California Postsecondary Education Commission
1303 J Street, Suite 500
Sacramento, California 95814-2938
916-445-1000
Growth in California's public college and university enrollment demand will continue to increase significantly for the next decade, according to projections released today by the California Postsecondary Education Commission (CPEC).

The Commission's new college enrollment demand estimates for the first decade of the next millennium reveal that an unprecedented 714,000 additional students, over and above the Fall 1998 enrollment, are expected at the doors of California's public colleges and universities by 2010.

The Commission's updated enrollment projections will serve as a vital part of the foundation upon which California makes policy decisions for investments in public college facilities, programs, financial aid, human resources, and fee structures, according to Warren H. Fox, the Commission's Executive Director. He said the new projections are being developed as part of a comprehensive higher education planning report to be released later this year on how California higher education can meet the "Tidal Wave II" of increased enrollment demand.

"This will be the largest number of students, anywhere, at any time, in any state, seeking public college enrollment," Fox said.

He said such a rapid increase presents a huge challenge for not only the policy makers and educators who must determine how to accommodate the additional students but, more important, for the hundreds of thousands of students who are or will be preparing for college. Fox maintained that the inextricable relationship between an educated population and economic progress has been recognized for some time, but that more students than ever are now realizing that higher education is also the critical link to personal satisfaction and financial prosperity.

To accommodate the additional students, Fox stated that California's colleges and universities would need increased support and resources, but stressed that it is unlikely the State can afford to meet such a surge in enrollment demand through the traditional means of building new campuses.

Fox said that, while some new public campuses may need to be built, colleges and universities will need to operate more efficiently, effectively, and collaboratively in order to deliver on California's historic promise of widespread access to higher education. He cited a variety of alternate strategies such as expanding existing facilities, more use of educational technology like distance learning, and moving to more year-round college operations for high-impact programs.

He cited the following highlights of the Commission's findings:

-Total enrollment at the California public colleges and universities is expected to swell from 1,998,000 students in 1998 to some 2,700,000 students by the year 2010, a 36 percent increase;

-Enrollment at California Community Colleges is expected to grow nearly 36 percent, go up some 37 percent at California State University, and show an increase of over 32 percent at University of California; and

-Approximately 72 percent of the new student enrollment demand (516,801) is due entirely to population growth.

These projections do not include the number of students who may attend California's independent colleges and universities, such as Stanford University, Mills College, the University of Southern California, and Westmont College. However, on the basis of some preliminary analysis done by the Association of Independent California Colleges and Universities, the independent sector has the capacity to grow by about 35,300 students by 2010.

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 7:01:15 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Like much else in California, apparently the state doesn't want to fund it...


I don't think it's that they don't want to fund it. I think it's that they're so bankrupt that they're throwing things over the side willy-nilly in a desperate attempt to keep the fiscal boat afloat.

Using California right now today as an example of the "normal" educational system is disingenuous. The state was paying their workers in warrants rather than paychecks not that long ago.

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 7:01:37 PM   
intenze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


I do not think kids should be bullied at school. I remember seeing kids bullied, and my son related the same to me. He is a lot like me, take seeing other people treated like shit rather personally and defend other people, even if it puts a target on my back...unfortunately teachers often turn a blind eye to such behavior and do not stop it because they think it is just kids being kids.

There are now very effective laws in place regarding bullying. Teachers are not permitted the luxury of turning a blind eye, nor should they. There are many levels of mediation to help students who are bullied and to prevent it.

quote:



They took it into college with them. I have heard more than one story of people who have Ritalin scripts trading them for money.. pressure is on to study, and kids know that Ritalin helps them focus, so they abuse it as a study aid and it helps them stay awake. If you would provide links to show that there are less children on that drug than there used to be, I will be more than happy to say.. "my bad"...I hate the fact kids are drugged unnecessarily.


That is less and less true every day. Parents (thank goodness), researchers, and psychologists are steering away from drug-em-up and let em go. However, I have seen drugs be very very effective in helping students learn. As for sharing Ritalin in college, geez in my day it was just something else.

quote:



Where do you think they should come from?


They come from taxes, and increasing taxes, which is wildly unpopular, is not going to happen to help schools. If that were the case, the states that are now in dire straights because their budgets are not balanced would be raising taxes instead of cutting teachers.
Even teachers in "good" school districts are making do with less.

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Profile   Post #: 252
RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 7:03:30 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I have seen documentary after documentary on broken schools that are ill funded and little more than prisons


Cite any one of them.


I know you have seen them too, unless you have lived in a bubble.. but I will play your game... be prepared... from now on whenever you make any sort of claim I am going to ask for links.... because I think you are being intellectually dishonest asking for this link. You have to know that inner city schools have lots of issues... some of them are hell on earth, and yet you are playing stupid... I just lost respect for you, not that it matters.

http://www.amazon.com/ABC-News-Nightline-Cedrics-Journey/dp/B000QXCPCM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1268618176&sr=1-5

http://www.amazon.com/Am-Promise-Children-Stanton-Elementary/dp/B000742G2O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1268618176&sr=1-1

And there are many others that I cannot find the link to and it has been a while since I have seen them...

It seems the only movies that get made about this issue are "feel good" stories... there is a reason why those stories get told, because they are the exception and not the rule.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 7:03:36 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever
Anyone paying any attention at all realizes that government has become the operative for corporate/financial interests. Good grief, corporations can even patent life forms now.

This has been true for 30 years.



Yes, since the late 70's. 78 I believe, but I'm too lazy to look it up now.

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 7:05:31 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Using California right now today as an example of the "normal" educational system is disingenuous.


IB, I'm not suggesting that at all. Julia brought it up as an anecdotal objection to my comments nationally.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/14/2010 7:06:03 PM >

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 7:06:16 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

There are now very effective laws in place regarding bullying. Teachers are not permitted the luxury of turning a blind eye, nor should they. There are many levels of mediation to help students who are bullied and to prevent it.


In all schools? I know my son just got out of high school a couple of years ago and it was still an issue when he was  there.


quote:

They come from taxes, and increasing taxes, which is wildly unpopular, is not going to happen to help schools. If that were the case, the states that are now in dire straights because their budgets are not balanced would be raising taxes instead of cutting teachers.
Even teachers in "good" school districts are making do with less.


I know where they come from... I was asking where the money
should come from....


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 256
RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 7:07:30 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Using California right now today as an example of the "normal" educational system is disingenuous.


IB, I'm not suggesting that at all. Julia brought it up as an anecdotal objection to my comments nationally.





Actually we have the largest education system in the world if I am not mistaken... and Florida is also cutting their enrollments, as are other cash strapped states... according to USA Today


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 257
RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 7:08:05 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

I will play your game


Game? You've gone from raising questions about the educational system to comparing them to prisons.

And your evidence? A few problem schools from vague "documentary after documentary."

Of course I'd question that. Any reasonable thinker would.

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Profile   Post #: 258
RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 7:13:48 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I will play your game


Game? You've gone from raising questions about the educational system to comparing them to prisons.

And your evidence? A few problem schools from vague "documentary after documentary."

Of course I'd question that. Any reasonable thinker would.


No... you are playing the "find links" game... which is tiresome... or you really have lived a very sheltered life and have never ventured past the end of your nose and had no idea that some high schools have metal detectors before you enter, have bars on the windows, have students that do not get desks because there are not enough of them, and have 20 or more year old textbooks.

If you were that ignorant about what does on outside of your lily white school... I apologize for questioning your lack of knowledge.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 7:16:43 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Using California right now today as an example of the "normal" educational system is disingenuous.


IB, I'm not suggesting that at all. Julia brought it up as an anecdotal objection to my comments nationally.


Actually we have the largest education system in the world if I am not mistaken... and Florida is also cutting their enrollments, as are other cash strapped states... according to USA Today.


California may well have the largest educational system in the world. I'm just saying that we're either in or just coming out of the greatest economic collapse since the Great Depression - citing that bankrupt states are cutting back on education in these circumstances as a failure of the educational system in general isn't being fair. They don't have any money and they're cutting back everywhere.

I have no idea, but what was California doing back in 2007, before the crash? That would be a fairer period to judge the success or failure of their system. I'm sure that if you looked at Germany's educational system during the hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic or the educational system in the U. S. during the Depression they wouldn't measure up so well either.

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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

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Profile   Post #: 260
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