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Sadism and submission. - 3/13/2010 8:42:31 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		I sometimes wonder how many Sadists take on Dominance as part of the expression of thier lusts. I can be a pretty hardcore Sadist-and I have personally found the happy masochist sort to be rather much of a turn off.

But someone who submits-this is different. One who really is not a pain slut. I enjoy seeing the struggle. But in the long run-there has to be a firmer connection as well. After all....Dominance is an investment.

There has to be an understanding of mutual worth and potential to go there.

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I didn't get into an alternative lifestyle to explore new frontiers in conformity.
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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/13/2010 8:51:13 PM   
slo18


Posts: 125
Status: offline 		a true sadist is the person who says no when the masochist says beat me.
lol
ok i had something really smart sounding to say , but then my sleeping pills kicked in and it it became really hard to focus all of a sudden.

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if god and the adorer call, tell them my prophet shall call their prophet, for I am in meetings verily till the end of time.

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/13/2010 8:54:40 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		Naw,a true sadist is someone who says "Go weed the entire yard and garden, do it NOW." when you demand a beating-because he knows how much you hate it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: slo18

a true sadist is the person who says no when the masochist says beat me.
lol
ok i had something really smart sounding to say , but then my sleeping pills kicked in and it it became really hard to focus all of a sudden.


_____________________________

I didn't get into an alternative lifestyle to explore new frontiers in conformity.

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/13/2010 9:09:12 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Smutmonger, I guess my association with the terms is the opposite. I have had a couple of LTRs as a Top, one for 5 years as a Domme, and am a bit dominant with my submissive playpartner. I can enjoy interacting with masochists and with submissives, but it's driven more by the interaction with them, rather than by knowing they hate it and are taking it for me. Yelps, moans, writhing around, whimpering, and crying are hot. I have done some casual play in the past, but I don't think that D/s is necessary for a fulfilling relationship. I *do* agree that some people feel pressured to use D/s labels, even though top/bottom or sadist/masochist would fit better.

I have no problem with my Master ordering me to clean or run an errand, even if I'd prefer to have playtime right then, but I don't think of it as sadistic at all, just as dominant. When I was in a relationship with a top or sadist, he had no right/authority to order me around.

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/13/2010 9:14:49 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		This is my point. The performance pressure and expectations attached to roles. How much do you suppose they twist people?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Smutmonger, I guess my association with the terms is the opposite. I have had a couple of LTRs as a Top, one for 5 years as a Domme, and am a bit dominant with my submissive playpartner. I can enjoy interacting with masochists and with submissives, but it's driven more by the interaction with them, rather than by knowing they hate it and are taking it for me. Yelps, moans, writhing around, whimpering, and crying are hot. I have done some casual play in the past, but I don't think that D/s is necessary for a fulfilling relationship. I *do* agree that some people feel pressured to use D/s labels, even though top/bottom or sadist/masochist would fit better.

I have no problem with my Master ordering me to clean or run an errand, even if I'd prefer to have playtime right then, but I don't think of it as sadistic at all, just as dominant. When I was in a relationship with a top or sadist, he had no right/authority to order me around.


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I didn't get into an alternative lifestyle to explore new frontiers in conformity.

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/13/2010 9:27:36 PM   
slo18


Posts: 125
Status: offline 		mine was just ment to be funny guess it wasnt.



_____________________________

if god and the adorer call, tell them my prophet shall call their prophet, for I am in meetings verily till the end of time.

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/14/2010 5:00:47 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		I am a sadistic Domme and I prefer to be with someone who is submissive and borders on masochism. I have had submissives with no pain tolerance and for me that can't work for long. I have also had submissives with very high pain tolerance and I find them hard to read because they are not communicating back to me during a session and so there is no connection. A reaction brings out my sadism. Someone just taking it just doesn't fire me up. A submissive that takes it but struggles with the pain is so hot!
I have had 3 masochistic non submissives in my life and I love all three of them, though I don't want a relationship with them. These are the guys that have taught me about my sadism because they have communicated back to me on a 1 to 1 level.
I think a sadist needs at least one masochistic friend.

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/14/2010 6:28:27 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		He is very dominant and very sadistic. I am very submissive and not masochistic. I do not get off on pain at all.
I actually think it would be boring for us if I was masochistic. He enjoys making me tense, nervous, uncomfortable.
He enjoys really hurting me and making me sob, beg and plead for him to stop. He enjoys only stopping when he wants to.
The perfect thing is...I enjoy that too. It would lose all appeal to me if I was able to control when things started and stopped.
We also have a full power exchange relationship that supports his sadism fully.
None of that probably made any sense since I haven't had any coffee yet.

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/14/2010 7:12:49 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I sometimes wonder how many Sadists take on Dominance as part of the expression of thier lusts. I can be a pretty hardcore Sadist-and I have personally found the happy masochist sort to be rather much of a turn off.


Giving pain to someone who is not a masochist may place you in the category of a more accurate definition of sadist, but I fail to see what that has to do with dominance or submission. In my relationships, S+M is playtime and is fun for both of us.. It has very little to do with our D/s dynamic, other than the fact I don't decide where, when and how; they do.

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/14/2010 8:20:48 AM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline 		I am masochistic to some extent, but it's my submission that makes me accept the pain my Owner dishes out. I have wanted many, many times to beg him to stop doing something, but I never have because one of his rules is that I don't ever say "no." Begging him to stop would constitute saying "no." So to an onlooker, it would probably look like I'm an incredible masochist, but they would really be seeing my submission more than my masochism. I'm sure that through my body language, facial expressions, moans, etc., it's clear to my Owner that if I were allowed to say "no," I would.

Even while I'm wishing I could have some relief or at least ask for some relief, I am enjoying things. It's a paradox to me, but submitting to the pain (or whatever) makes me feel so peaceful and happy. I do believe my Owner is a serious sadist, and I think he enjoys seeing me struggle to not ask him to stop.

Like Aileen, I haven't had my coffee yet . . . I definitely need it.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/14/2010 8:22:43 AM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		You get back around to why I think many guys will do the work to Dominate. It has payoffs in more than just obedience.

_____________________________

I didn't get into an alternative lifestyle to explore new frontiers in conformity.

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/14/2010 9:02:17 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		D/s can be very rewarding, but I still don't understand what that has to do with sadism. They can co-exist, but one isn't required for the other. If someone was dominant only for the payoffs, rather than because that was what worked for them with their partner, it seems like that would be a very strange headspace to be in.

I think there can be a *LOT* of performance pressure and expectations attached to roles, but fortunately, I've encountered that more on forums like this, and to a lesser extent within the public scene, than I have in my personal relationships. For years, I hadn't experienced submission, even though I enjoyed bottoming. That wasn't an issue with the men I was actually dating or in relationships with, until I started doing some casual play at BDSM events when I was single. After a couple of guys going on about how deeply I was submitting, or how beautiful my submission was, when I was just bottoming, I stopped playing with them, and asked more questions about that upfront. It was as awkward as if they'd crowed over how many times I'd orgasmed, when I just *hadn't*! I got that from a lot of people who were watching as well, but that didn't bother me nearly as much. I had some run-ins, both in person and online, with people who insisted that I was submissive based on either my gender or my demeanor, but nobody who I actually cared about or was involved with, so it was fairly easy to dismiss them.

It seemed (and still does) that the vast majority of M/s and D/s relationships involved a lot of her getting used sexually when she was upset, sick, angry, or whatever, and that submissives and slaves were expected to get turned on or get off literally at the snap of fingers. It's like the Soup Nazi on South Park: "No foreplay for you!" The people involved seemed perfectly content and happy with that, but it wouldn't work for me, just like there are loads of people who love mushrooms, but I just don't. Also, almost all of them had a "one strike and you're out" policy. Fortunately, neither my Master nor my previous Dominant had those approaches to it, or those expectations of me. I'm glad I was able to get past all of the *general* expectations of those roles, and focus on the specifics of *their* expectations. For several years, I automatically ruled out any potential partners based on their D/s orientation, but once I actually reacted submissively to someone, I decided that I'd be open to it, but very cautiously, with lots of questions.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 3/14/2010 9:03:05 AM >

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/14/2010 10:37:01 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		I've discussed this a few times, specifically in two threads which you might enjoy reading:



Bottom line, I much prefer to torture someone for whom it authentically causes an inner turmoil as it is part of the dynamic that I like. That said, I think that it's not always just cut and dry. There are so many ways to express sadism and masochim.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 3/14/2010 10:44:00 AM >

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/14/2010 12:20:07 PM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

He is very dominant and very sadistic. I am very submissive and not masochistic. I do not get off on pain at all.
I actually think it would be boring for us if I was masochistic. He enjoys making me tense, nervous, uncomfortable.
He enjoys really hurting me and making me sob, beg and plead for him to stop. He enjoys only stopping when he wants to.
The perfect thing is...I enjoy that too. It would lose all appeal to me if I was able to control when things started and stopped.
We also have a full power exchange relationship that supports his sadism fully.
None of that probably made any sense since I haven't had any coffee yet.


It made perfect sense and sounded fantastic.

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<-- Easily impressed.

Strangers have the BEST candy!

Puppy dogs are my favorite people!


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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/15/2010 1:43:03 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		If you don't mind, OP, I actually found this bit of extension a better layer of intrigue. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

This is my point. The performance pressure and expectations attached to roles. How much do you suppose they twist people?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Smutmonger, I guess my association with the terms is the opposite. I have had a couple of LTRs as a Top, one for 5 years as a Domme, and am a bit dominant with my submissive playpartner. I can enjoy interacting with masochists and with submissives, but it's driven more by the interaction with them, rather than by knowing they hate it and are taking it for me. Yelps, moans, writhing around, whimpering, and crying are hot. I have done some casual play in the past, but I don't think that D/s is necessary for a fulfilling relationship. I *do* agree that some people feel pressured to use D/s labels, even though top/bottom or sadist/masochist would fit better.

I have no problem with my Master ordering me to clean or run an errand, even if I'd prefer to have playtime right then, but I don't think of it as sadistic at all, just as dominant. When I was in a relationship with a top or sadist, he had no right/authority to order me around.


Do I think it twists some people?  Yes, I do.  I think it happens more often as people are still finding themselves when they are just starting out then after folks have had their feet wet for a while.  There is some type of pressure that says it's not ok *just* to be a top or bottom, sadist or masochist.  The same works in reverse.  If a person is a Dominant or a submissive, why in the heck aren't you a sadist or a masochist?  (That's the pressure that seems to come out.  Not My personal opinion.)  What ends up happening, especially in the beginning when folks don't have a lot of confidence in wiitwd, they bend to what other people think they should be, instead of just being who they are. 

In all sincerety, I wish more folks would be willing to say they identify as a top, bottom, sadist, masochist, whatever it is that suits them.  I tend to believe that some folks would be much happier if they did.


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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/15/2010 2:54:12 AM   
delicatelydirty


Posts: 126
Joined: 2/7/2010
Status: offline 		I am a masochist, I get off on pain but I am also submissive... what I have found is that Doms/sadists enjoy pushing me to the point that the pain is to much... it is like a challenge for them... and depending on the type of pain that threshold can be easy to find...
But I have many things that are absolute torture for me that involve no physical pain at all.... and any sadist I have played with has enjoyed pushing those buttons very much....
I think all I have played with have enjoyed my enjoyment of pain, but then they have all pushed me to the edges of it also.

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/15/2010 2:15:45 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

You get back around to why I think many guys will do the work to Dominate. It has payoffs in more than just obedience.


now who was it who said, 'not all sadists are Dominants and not all Dominants are sadists' 

you cant decide to be a Dominant, i dont think, any more than you can decide to be a submissive - you either are or youre not.

i know what youre saying and i kinda agree with you, that there are some people who access submissives in order to get sadistic (or kinky), but that doesnt mean theyre any good at being Dominant the rest of the time in any concerted or consistant way.

by the same token, i would imagine there are quite a few massochists who access sadistic Dominants for the same reasons.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/15/2010 2:19:07 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

I sometimes wonder how many Sadists take on Dominance as part of the expression of thier lusts. I can be a pretty hardcore Sadist-and I have personally found the happy masochist sort to be rather much of a turn off.

But someone who submits-this is different. One who really is not a pain slut. I enjoy seeing the struggle. But in the long run-there has to be a firmer connection as well. After all....Dominance is an investment.

There has to be an understanding of mutual worth and potential to go there.


You are sooo deep today Smut lol. I wish I didn't have such a horrid of a headache and could chime in. grr

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It hurts.....that you call me a masochist


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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/15/2010 2:21:39 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

I sometimes wonder how many Sadists take on Dominance as part of the expression of thier lusts. I can be a pretty hardcore Sadist-and I have personally found the happy masochist sort to be rather much of a turn off.

But someone who submits-this is different. One who really is not a pain slut. I enjoy seeing the struggle. But in the long run-there has to be a firmer connection as well. After all....Dominance is an investment.

There has to be an understanding of mutual worth and potential to go there.


I'm a sadistic dominant.  I like a man who doesn't enjoy pain and suffering, but enjoys what it does for me.  I do ok with masochists as long as they have the capacity to communicate their discomfort because they know it pleases me.  What I can't connect well with is a submissive or bottom that is very self indulgent about his suffering and gloating in it or lapping it up so eagerly. Or a masochist that tries to direct me.

Akasha


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RE: Sadism and submission. - 3/15/2010 2:23:17 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

I'm a sadistic dominant. I like a man who doesn't enjoy pain and suffering, but enjoys what it does for me.


That is ...wow. nicely put.

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It hurts.....that you call me a masochist


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Profile   Post #: 20
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