RE: Help...........Please (Full Version)

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CalifChick -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 1:42:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

As D8UD said, you knowingly got involved with a man who had children with another woman. She will ALWAYS be part of his life because of those children. You don't say how old they are, but there is college, weddings, holidays, grandchildren, baptisms/brises, on and on.


I don't know that there is a whole lot more to add, other than I wanted to comment on this.  The parents can CHOOSE to keep each other in their lives, or they can CHOOSE to not do so.  My divorced parents have not spoken in years.  Not because of animosity, but because there is no reason to.  My siblings and I are all adults (as are the children in the OP), and there is no reason for my parents to discuss anything about us.  If one of them needs to know something, we (the children) will call them and tell them.  There have been weddings, holidays, grandchildren, all the things mentioned above, and there has been no need for my parents to talk.

Cali



takemeforyourown -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 1:47:47 PM)

You can, lovingly, suggest that he discuss some boundaries with his ex. Perhaps they could agree on a certain time to talk?



ncbabe -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 1:51:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nslavu

My point is this (because I am a major supporter of communication) However in this case ...Talking with her about her and the his ex keeps him in the middle of a pussy fight. Unless he feeds off that shit ( I wouldn't) that is just more stress for him. (the same stress as giving an ultimatum)

Let me illustrate my point by example-

I have two bitches

One is nagging the fuck out me and generally making my life miserable (and cuz of kids I am somewhat stuck with her for awhile).
The other is sucking my cock, licking my balls, picking up after me and generally making my life rather sweet.

Example two-

I have two bitches

One is nagging the fuck out me and generally making my life miserable (and cuz of kids I am somewhat stuck with her for awhile).
The other is nagging the fuck out of me with her bs and whining and ultimatums (which btw is an emotional power play), and making my life miserable -(she is expendable)

duh.

I am a big fan of communicating, but seriously there are times when communication just irritates an already festering boil so I say stfu and be the best girl.



I don't think she knows how to be the best girl, so I don't think that just shutting the fuck up alone is going to do it.  She needs to shut up and listen to him and support him from a place of awareness, otherwise she will be silent and resentful.  Upon reflection she probably has already said enough to him, so I will take back the part where she voices her concerns to him first.  I am quite sure he knows what they are already.



Nslavu -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 2:10:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncbabe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nslavu

My point is this (because I am a major supporter of communication) However in this case ...Talking with her about her and the his ex keeps him in the middle of a pussy fight. Unless he feeds off that shit ( I wouldn't) that is just more stress for him. (the same stress as giving an ultimatum)

Let me illustrate my point by example-

I have two bitches

One is nagging the fuck out me and generally making my life miserable (and cuz of kids I am somewhat stuck with her for awhile).
The other is sucking my cock, licking my balls, picking up after me and generally making my life rather sweet.

Example two-

I have two bitches

One is nagging the fuck out me and generally making my life miserable (and cuz of kids I am somewhat stuck with her for awhile).
The other is nagging the fuck out of me with her bs and whining and ultimatums (which btw is an emotional power play), and making my life miserable -(she is expendable)

duh.

I am a big fan of communicating, but seriously there are times when communication just irritates an already festering boil so I say stfu and be the best girl.



I don't think she knows how to be the best girl, so I don't think that just shutting the fuck up alone is going to do it.  She needs to shut up and listen to him and support him from a place of awareness, otherwise she will be silent and resentful.  Upon reflection she probably has already said enough to him, so I will take back the part where she voices her concerns to him first.  I am quite sure he knows what they are already.


I would think so. I hear what you're saying..

You may notice that you say - listen and awareness, support, none of which are "keep picking at the boil or communicate". What is problematic is being put in the middle. I suspect generally most people don't care (forget the M/s dynamic) to be put in the middle. It literally tears people apart and the relationship follows the same course eventually.

The M appears from info provided to be constantly put in the middle between his ex and his kids (stress) and now the slave is chirping in and getting in the middle as well. (more stress). He probably already dumped the ex because of the stress, so ...

Regarding her knowing how to be the best. That is communication I would favor. "How could I please you" is different from "it's either her or me". It doesn't pick at the festering boil and it takes her to the place she ought to be, where he knows and sees who is best, rather than being constantly compromised and put in the middle. In that regard I agree with your sentiment.






came4U -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 2:13:36 PM)

uhhg this reminds me of why I'd never choose someone who had yungins that I'd have to worry about some ex calling. knocks wood, lol.



DesFIP -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 3:21:34 PM)

Just tell him that after he's had one of these conversations he isn't fit to live with. And walk away for a few hours. If he comes home every night complaining about her, remind him that "you're sorry but he has the ability to tell her he can't talk, to ask the receptionist not to transfer the calls but just take a message" and you're going out. "And please call when it's safe for you to come back".

Hand him back his problem because it is his problem and not yours.



NihilusZero -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 4:18:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

While he is in need of comforting and less drama from her, he does have a responsibility here.

Certainly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet
I would not be serving him well if he were grabbing his chest complaining of pain and I just snuggled up to him and said he was right to not want to go to the hospital.

You would if that is what he clearly expressed to be his requirement of you.

Otherwise we are at a dynamic impasse where the D-type's decision making ability has registered as incompetent by the s-type. At such a point, I don't see it as the place for a slave to decide how the D-type should act via ultimatum, but rather to (if things are so horrible) communicate the fact that s/he feels incapable of properly serving because of that decision. Granted, that itself can seem like an ultimatum, but I think there is enough difference in the subtle foundations that differentiating them is important.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

It's the same balancing act here.  How does a girl keep in her submissive place and serve her partner when he's being destructive to himself, the relationship, her, or all of these?

From my perspective, if my slave is witnessing me doing something out of character as far as showing intellectual competence in the decision(s) I'm making, her thinking process should go as follows:

1) Is he suffering some neurological malady that is causing him to act stupidly?
2) If 1 is not the case, then I should presume that he is consciously aware of his decision and since I (hopefully) gauged his capacity in this arena prior to entering the dynamic with him, I'll trust that he is making the best decision he can make.
3) If his decision from 2 is something that I cannot handle, however, I must muster up the strength to honestly express it to him as I am at a juncture where my ability to serve him honestly and with trust in his judgment has been compromised.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

It's not easy.  She didn't come up with remotely the right answer, but I think her intentions were not actually selfish... at least entirely.

lovingpet   

I think "selfish" is too flat a term to describe her reaction. It paints too superficial a motivation. However, every comment of hers appears to inevitably come back to the indication that she is being wounded by stuff that is happening to him (unless he is actually taking things out on her in any way out of the expected).



PrimalConsonance -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 4:35:29 PM)

Since you have already delivered the ultimatum, all that you can do at this point is wait for him to make his choice, and hope if  he chooses you that he doesn't come to resent the hell out of you for interfering in his familial relationships.  Good luck.



thornhappy -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 4:38:26 PM)

You're 52, surely you've seen situations like this amongst friends or coworkers?  The solutions are the same; the dynamic has little to do with this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chiara

An owned slave living with her Master , he has been married, 3 adult children .
The ex wife is continually on the phone to Master  while at work and it adds to His already stressful job.
I have suggested that because all she does is drain him and inject him with negativity that perhaps its time for her calls to cease. She has known about his relationship with me for the last 2 1/2 years , i was Not the cause of his break up. She is vile and vindictive towards me also, i have given him an ultimatum this weekend .....
<lets not go down the Your a slave Just put up with it > either me or her..........
I say this to Him, because i can see the damage she does to Him, and of course it rubs off on our relationship.
What, if anything more do i or should i do ?




came4U -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 4:45:50 PM)

eeks, I misread (man, I have the attention span of a goldfish today uhhg)

they are grown children?

uh well, ya, if they are grown, it is time they and the ex wife get a life, for if it is not about an illness or something dire, it would be a pain for them or her to call all the time.



lucylucy -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 5:22:35 PM)

You've gotten really solid advice. I particularly agree with ncbabe and Nslavu.

The bottom line, from my perspective, is that you are trying to control him by giving an ultimatum. It WILL backfire. You've told him how you feel about the situation and you haven't gotten your way. Now you're resorting to the nuclear option to get your way. You can't control him, and if he's the D-type (and even if he's not), he will resent your attempt to control him. Withdraw the ultimatum lickety split, plead temporary insanity, beg his forgiveness, and hope you haven't fucked things up beyond repair. If he forgives you, get some counseling so YOU can manage your stress around this situation.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 5:32:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nslavu


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncbabe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nslavu

FFS... if you think you are better for him, then BE better for him. How is stressing him or ultimatums going to be better?

Your need to usurp the other woman (who is already gone, so you clearly have an advantage) is extraneous bullshit. Forget about her and BE the better woman for him.

edit-

I had to add, I disagree with the sit down and talk idea (other than to retract the stupid fucking ultimatum) There is no need to communicate here. There is need to just fucking BE the best one. There are a lot of times when it's best to stfu and be.



I agree with the whole 'just be the best' thing but stand by my suggestion of talking.  Communication between them seems to be lacking and some clear statements of their respective positions would be a good start.  Also, the emphasis is on her listening to him, which she needs to do if she is going to just be the best and quietly support him while he figures his shit out.



My point is this (because I am a major supporter of communication) However in this case ...Talking with her about her and the his ex keeps him in the middle of a pussy fight. Unless he feeds off that shit ( I wouldn't) that is just more stress for him. (the same stress as giving an ultimatum)

Let me illustrate my point by example-

I have two bitches

One is nagging the fuck out me and generally making my life miserable (and cuz of kids I am somewhat stuck with her for awhile).
The other is sucking my cock, licking my balls, picking up after me and generally making my life rather sweet.

Example two-

I have two bitches

One is nagging the fuck out me and generally making my life miserable (and cuz of kids I am somewhat stuck with her for awhile).
The other is nagging the fuck out of me with her bs and whining and ultimatums (which btw is an emotional power play), and making my life miserable -(she is expendable)

duh.

I am a big fan of communicating, but seriously there are times when communication just irritates an already festering boil so I say stfu and be the best girl.



He is with her, he already made the decision. In a "new" as in recent divorce, it takes some time for the parties to come to grips with what has occured. The divorce is typically final, but everything has not truly been "severed." Given the age of the people involved, and the comments about "2 1/2 years," this was a long term marriage, and the current relationship likely started prior to the divorce being over. Comments about how the ex wife is also "vile and vindictive" to the OP indicate that she does believe the OP is responsible for the breakup, whether it is true or not.

If the divorce was long since final, then this behavior has long since been going on. The OP can "shut the fuck up" as you suggest, but it is never going to stop. In that case, she had to have seen this happening in the beginning of the relationship and she is the fool who continued to get involved anyway.

When a long term marriage breaks up and another relationship starts, there is no "proving you are the best girl (or guy for that matter)." There is the reality of many hurt feelings and anger that is not always resolved by a judge stamping the final divorce decree.

There is also the matter that this guy is also obviously coming home bitching up, down and center about his ex calling all the time and pissing him off (it isn't just the ex wife's unresolved anger at play). That affects his CURRENT relationship. My point there? For everyone who says it isn't any of her business, well the minute he starts pissing and moaning about it, the second the ex wife involves her, it BECOMES her business, because it is then affecting HER life.

I'm sure it would be nice if all "bitches" would just shut the fuck up and suck dick, but in real life, it just doesn't play out that way. Like it or not, people come with emotions.



lizi -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 5:40:59 PM)

His relationship with his ex is his business, you can't control it. You can control how she acts to you so draw your own boundary there and stand by it. You've basically called him out onto the carpet for your perceived lack in how he's handled the situation with the ex and since it's public now between the two of you, you've caused him to lose face. I can't see that there will be much resolved in a positive way as it stands.

Since it's his business to begin with you should retract your ultimatum and understand that you can't dictate how he lives. You can however make suggestions...and it's up to him if he takes them or not. All you can do is control your own life, if you are truly miserable then you'll have to decide on staying or leaving but you cannot expect someone to change things for you.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 5:41:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I don't know that there is a whole lot more to add, other than I wanted to comment on this.  The parents can CHOOSE to keep each other in their lives, or they can CHOOSE to not do so.  My divorced parents have not spoken in years.  Not because of animosity, but because there is no reason to.  My siblings and I are all adults (as are the children in the OP), and there is no reason for my parents to discuss anything about us.  If one of them needs to know something, we (the children) will call them and tell them.  There have been weddings, holidays, grandchildren, all the things mentioned above, and there has been no need for my parents to talk.

Cali



Cali, the parents can CHOOSE not to communicate. I had a horrendous divorce, and an ex that would take me to court every 3 months (literally) for 6 years. All at the prompting of the new wife I might add. Yes, there was animosity, which in reality is an understatement, lol.

My ex husband has now divorced the wife that came after me, and him and I, for the most part, can get along pretty well. It took 14 years for that to happen. You say that your parents didn't have a "need" or a "reason" to talk to each other? Obviously, holidays are not shared (at least not typically), but when your siblings got married, your parents didn't have a civil conversation with each other about how wonderful the new spouse (or whatever) was for the child they created together? I'm not talking about calling each other on the phone to discuss you kids, but at some events, yea, parents "without animosity" are going to engage in that kind of civil discussion about the children they created together.

I can honestly say that the stress in my life has decreased dramatically since my ex's divorce. Now my ex is not even close to father of the year, however, I will have no problem dancing with him at my son's wedding, or sitting with him when my son graduates from high school. We will be able to smile together and talk about how each of our respective families are doing. Finally. And it is a nice thing, and even better for my son.



DomBlade64 -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 6:09:05 PM)

You know what you want.

Get it.



mastFOX -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 6:27:10 PM)

 you where right to do what you did.



CaringandReal -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 6:41:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet
I would not be serving him well if he were grabbing his chest complaining of pain and I just snuggled up to him and said he was right to not want to go to the hospital.

You would if that is what he clearly expressed to be his requirement of you.

Otherwise we are at a dynamic impasse where the D-type's decision making ability has registered as incompetent by the s-type. At such a point, I don't see it as the place for a slave to decide how the D-type should act via ultimatum, but rather to (if things are so horrible) communicate the fact that s/he feels incapable of properly serving because of that decision. Granted, that itself can seem like an ultimatum, but I think there is enough difference in the subtle foundations that differentiating them is important.


Interesting discusion.

I've been in the hypothetical situation that LovingPet used as an analogy. Literally. And for several years. It was hellish. It tore me apart inside, but he was of sound mind and I had to abide by it. Telling him I was incapable of properly serving wasn't an option I could seriously consider: I don't become incapable of properly serving from most emotional events (there probably is one that would incapacitate me but I haven't run across it yet), so for me that would have been both a lie and a form of blackmail. He needed me and I had made a commitment and he had taken control of me to the point where I didn't want anything more than to serve him as he wanted to be served. Basically, everything I held sacred was in the in the simple fact that for me, his word was law. So I did what he told me to do, as best I could. When you are a slave and you decide to subscribe to the idea that the person who is objectively right should be the one whose opinion prevails, then you are playing a very dangerous game. (I think in another thread I mentioned the idea of "going all legal" on someone? This is the sort of thing I meant--using technicalities or philisophical positions to justify rank disobedience and even decieving yourself: "why, this isn't rank disobedience! No one in their right mind would put up with something this... [insert adjective]." ) If your untimatum succeeds, you may get some peace of mind in one area but you will not be able to respect him nearly as much as your owner and your master. For me, personally, that small win would not begin to cover the horrific loss elsewhere.

Several people in this thread have said that that this issue has nothing to do with the master/slave dynamic. To me it has everything to do with it, and the death knell that some hear prophetically tolling is for that dynamic, primarily.

To Chiara: Of course ultimatums can be retracted. You open your mouth and you say, with heartfelt sincerity, "You know that ultimatum I issed you a few hours ago regarding your ex-wife? I've thought it through and am now extremely sorry I did so. I realize it is absolutely not my place to say that sort of thing to you and I wish I had never said the words. All I can say now is that I didn't mean them, I was upset, my brain went out the window, and I didn't think through the ramifications of what I said before I shot my big mouth off." Then you fall onto your knees before him and very humbly and sincerely beg his forgiveness. Retracting an ultimatum is simple (if not always easy) particularly if you're a slave. It just means eating a little crow, admitting that you don't know everything or even that you don't know better and that you can make (and did make) a real doozie of a mistake. Who cares if this means he won't "trust" or "respect" your untimatums in the future? This is a master/slave relationship and you are fucking slave! You shouldn't ever issue such a thing in the future so why worry about your "rep" in that regard? (I realize you didn't say this, someone responding to you did, but it's a point I wanted to address.)

What in the world has personal vanilla relationship power politics such as these got to do with this situation, except as tools to use to speed the death of something very special?



Nslavu -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 6:57:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


He is with her, he already made the decision. In a "new" as in recent divorce, it takes some time for the parties to come to grips with what has occured. The divorce is typically final, but everything has not truly been "severed." Given the age of the people involved, and the comments about "2 1/2 years," this was a long term marriage, and the current relationship likely started prior to the divorce being over. Comments about how the ex wife is also "vile and vindictive" to the OP indicate that she does believe the OP is responsible for the breakup, whether it is true or not.


Agreed in principle given the info.

quote:


If the divorce was long since final, then this behavior has long since been going on. The OP can "shut the fuck up" as you suggest, but it is never going to stop. In that case, she had to have seen this happening in the beginning of the relationship and she is the fool who continued to get involved anyway.

When a long term marriage breaks up and another relationship starts, there is no "proving you are the best girl (or guy for that matter)." There is the reality of many hurt feelings and anger that is not always resolved by a judge stamping the final divorce decree.


2 1/2 yrs. not long enough? I wouldn't consider this a rebound relationship but seriously 2 1/2 yrs. is plenty of time to move on. On the other hand my impression is that he is an enabler and probably won't move on as long as there are ex's and nagging bitches to enable.

quote:


There is also the matter that this guy is also obviously coming home bitching up, down and center about his ex calling all the time and pissing him off (it isn't just the ex wife's unresolved anger at play). That affects his CURRENT relationship. My point there? For everyone who says it isn't any of her business, well the minute he starts pissing and moaning about it, the second the ex wife involves her, it BECOMES her business, because it is then affecting HER life.


I'll just note my caveat because it applies here, in bold red below-

quote:


My point is this (because I am a major supporter of communication) However in this case ...Talking with her about her and the his ex keeps him in the middle of a pussy fight. Unless he feeds off that shit ( I wouldn't) that is just more stress for him. (the same stress as giving an ultimatum)



quote:


I'm sure it would be nice if all "bitches" would just shut the fuck up and suck dick, but in real life, it just doesn't play out that way. Like it or not, people come with emotions.


Indeed we do, and here-here!! I say, without them we're just meat ... BUT we get to choose how we express those emotions. Being the same sort of nagging bitch as the ex isn't going to help. (again unless this guy feeds on that shit,... I don't find that helpful; but A/v people are stuck in it.)

I honestly don't think there is a working M/s relationship going on here. That there ever was is in question from what I see and I think since the nuke has been dropped it will eventually result in goodbyes and another A/v enabled slave.

Read the OP ad hominem, a different picture emerges.







NihilusZero -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 7:08:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

Interesting discusion.

I've been in the hypothetical situation that LovingPet used as an analogy. Literally. And for several years. It was hellish. It tore me apart inside, but he was of sound mind and I had to abide by it. Telling him I was incapable of properly serving wasn't an option I could seriously consider: I don't become incapable of properly serving from most emotional events (there probably is one that would incapacitate me but I haven't run across it yet), so for me that would have been both a lie and a form of blackmail. He needed me and I had made a commitment and he had taken control of me to the point where I didn't want anything more than to serve him as he wanted to be served. Basically, everything I held sacred was in the in the simple fact that for me, his word was law. So I did what he told me to do, as best I could. When you are a slave and you decide to subscribe to the idea that the person who is objectively right should be the one whose opinion prevails, then you are playing a very dangerous game. (I think in another thread I mentioned the idea of "going all legal" on someone? This is the sort of thing I meant--using technicalities or philisophical positions to justify rank disobedience and even decieving yourself: "why, this isn't rank disobedience! No one in their right mind would put up with something this... [insert adjective]." ) If your untimatum succeeds, you may get some peace of mind in one area but you will not be able to respect him nearly as much as your owner and your master. For me, personally, that small win would not begin to cover the horrific loss elsewhere.

I think I should have been a bit more descriptive in my last post. When I said "incapable of properly serving" I realize i meant it with a caveat I already had stuck in my head but which i didn't voice: "capably serving" me happens only in a situations where the slave's emotional reaction to doing so isn't making for the possibility of a building resentment (or a comprehensive insecurity about my decision-making ability).

So I wasn't speaking of literal inability, but a situation where the balance of the relationship (as I would perceive it) would be compromised because she is unable to freely trust my judgment.



lovingpet -> RE: Help...........Please (3/15/2010 7:48:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

You would if that is what he clearly expressed to be his requirement of you.

Otherwise we are at a dynamic impasse where the D-type's decision making ability has registered as incompetent by the s-type. At such a point, I don't see it as the place for a slave to decide how the D-type should act via ultimatum, but rather to (if things are so horrible) communicate the fact that s/he feels incapable of properly serving because of that decision. Granted, that itself can seem like an ultimatum, but I think there is enough difference in the subtle foundations that differentiating them is important.
]
From my perspective, if my slave is witnessing me doing something out of character as far as showing intellectual competence in the decision(s) I'm making, her thinking process should go as follows:

1) Is he suffering some neurological malady that is causing him to act stupidly?
2) If 1 is not the case, then I should presume that he is consciously aware of his decision and since I (hopefully) gauged his capacity in this arena prior to entering the dynamic with him, I'll trust that he is making the best decision he can make.
3) If his decision from 2 is something that I cannot handle, however, I must muster up the strength to honestly express it to him as I am at a juncture where my ability to serve him honestly and with trust in his judgment has been compromised.



You would not allow a submissive to enter into relationship with you without having established the above.  I wouldn't enter a relationship without doing so either.  Not everyone has done that though.  Some are deep into a dynamic, but still working on the foundation.  I know my partner very well and that he would NEVER refuse life or death medical treatment not only because he values himself, but because it removes him from being able to care for me.  I doubt I would ever hit such a situation.  You are right.  It would ruin the dynamic more often than not for me to take him in hand for any reason.  It isn't something I would do lightly if ever.  I would be risking the relationship, or at the very least the dynamic, but I might do so if I truly believe the particular circumstance is causing a physical inability to make a sound decision.  I think it is a pretty narrow and pretty medical set of circumstances where doing this will ever be met with a thank you and the ability to continue on as before.  That does not exist here, I agree and even if it did would not be the time for drama.  Probably a simple call to emergency so they could be there when he finally quit protesting in the form of unconsciousness or something is all I would do (kidding....maybe).  That is why I advised her as the first poster on the thread to recant the ultimatum. 

There is nothing good to come from this even before the dynamic enters the picture.  It only compounds the problem.  The overall problem is not an M/s thing.  It does lend certain additional dimensions though.  Pronouncing an ultimatum pretty much always leads to at least problems, if not the end of the relationship, without the dynamic involved.  It just nearly assures the end of the relationship with M/s involved.  As always, M/s makes a delicate situation even more so, but at the same time somehow simpler. 

lovingpet 



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