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Obedience - 3/31/2006 6:15:51 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		In the context of authority structure relationships, what is obedience?  What distinguishes it from the term blind obedience?  When is it appropriate to be obedient and when is it appropriate to not be obedient?

Knight’s kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus
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RE: Obedience - 3/31/2006 6:32:17 PM   
slaveladyj


Posts: 161
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		when obeying is going to put your life or someone else's in danger, would be my answer.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Obedience - 3/31/2006 6:42:44 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		In the relationship I have with Himself it is always appropriate to obey although it may not be possible for me to do so and disobedience is never appropriate although there may be times when there are no other options but to disobey.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Obedience - 3/31/2006 6:46:24 PM   
enthralled


Posts: 249
Joined: 9/13/2005
From: Nashville, Tn
Status: offline 		Hello. . .
Obedience vs blind obedience- 
I think that blind obedience would be obeying an order that was detrimental to your wellbeing on any level.
On the other hand, would you really put yourself in the care of someone who you would even feel the need to question?

Respectfully,
~enthralled



_____________________________

A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes another's.-Jean Paul Richter

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Obedience - 3/31/2006 7:01:50 PM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		I'm obedient in almost all things. That doesn't mean I don't question him and he either changes his mind or tells me to suck it up and do it. He would never have me do anything that would hurt someone, myself or my child. He is incredibly reasonable and willing to admit if he is wrong and expects me to speak up if I feel he is.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

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RE: Obedience - 3/31/2006 7:06:07 PM   
SpaceForMore


Posts: 32
Joined: 2/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Littlepita

He is incredibly reasonable and willing to admit if he is wrong and expects me to speak up if I feel he is.



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RE: Obedience - 3/31/2006 8:06:10 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		To the OP...common sense?.....Tempting

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RE: Obedience - 3/31/2006 8:34:11 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: enthralled
Obedience vs blind obedience- 
I think that blind obedience would be obeying an order that was detrimental to your wellbeing on any level.


How does someone define what is detrimental to their well-being?  Who decides if an order is detrimental or not, the one in authority or the one obeying?

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to enthralled)
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RE: Obedience - 3/31/2006 8:46:12 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

In the context of authority structure relationships, what is obedience? 

Obedience here is the same as plain, ol' ordinary obedience: The act of obeying.

quote:

What distinguishes it from the term blind obedience? 

That you can ask questions before you decide whether or not to obey.

quote:

When is it appropriate to be obedient and when is it appropriate to not be obedient?

I have a good friend who says that it's the intent behind that action that is important in this kind of thing. For example: you have pledged to serve your Master. Let's say your Master becomes terminally ill (may it not be true!) and decides to dismiss you because he doesn't want you to see him like that. you DISOBEY and stay. But, are you really disobeying? Aren't you following the intent behind the collar? Which would serve your Master better, leaving him or staying?

It can get tricky.

Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Obedience - 3/31/2006 9:08:19 PM   
starymists


Posts: 139
Joined: 2/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
How does someone define what is detrimental to their well-being?  Who decides if an order is detrimental or not, the one in authority or the one obeying?


I can only speak for myself here...if I have a concern about an order, I request time to talk about my concerns. I express those concerns with respect. My Dominant listens to my concerns and addresses what needs to be addressed to ensure that I am safe in what he is requiring me to do. If he thinks those concerns have merrit, he has changed/altered commands. Other times, he has simply shown that he thought his requirements through and has taken precautions to keep me safe. As we progressed through our relationship, I have felt less need to question because I have learned to trust him more.
 
And that really ties into your original question. For me, blind obedience is having questions or concerns that I don't bring to the table *which I get in major trouble for*. Obedience is simply doing what I'm requested/ordered/commanded to when there is no reason to question what I'm being told to do. But each relationship has different dynamics. That just happens to be the way my Dominant structured ours.

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RE: Obedience - 3/31/2006 9:10:03 PM   
Angeni


Posts: 88
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

In the context of authority structure relationships, what is obedience?  What distinguishes it from the term blind obedience?  When is it appropriate to be obedient and when is it appropriate to not be obedient?

Knight’s kyra

In the structure of my own relationships, obedience would be doing what I was told, or what was expected of me. Blind obedience would be the same but trusting in the absolute fact that my partner would never have me do something that would be harmful to either myself, or another. As for when is it appropriate not to obey? When circumstances hinder me from doing so, or when I know for a fact that to do so would cause harm ( meaning that I have knowledge that my partner does not )

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RE: Obedience - 3/31/2006 10:24:05 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		In my slavery to my Master, obedience is obeying, at all times, in all things.  i don't use the term blind obedience, because to me that always meant obeying without knowing, understanding and trusting.  i trust Master completely, and while i may not know or understand a command, i know and understand Him, so obeying it is not done "blindly."  i have faith in his orders. 

i have to echo what Celeste said - it is never inappropriate to disobey, although there may be times i have no choice.  He will take that into account when assessing the situation.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Obedience - 3/31/2006 10:25:51 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: enthralled
Obedience vs blind obedience- 
I think that blind obedience would be obeying an order that was detrimental to your wellbeing on any level.


How does someone define what is detrimental to their well-being?  Who decides if an order is detrimental or not, the one in authority or the one obeying?

Knight's kyra


In my case, Master always decides.  If i have concerns, i ask.  If he chooses to address them, he does.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Obedience - 4/1/2006 12:31:06 AM   
DragonNphoenix


Posts: 617
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

In the context of authority structure relationships, what is obedience?  What distinguishes it from the term blind obedience?  When is it appropriate to be obedient and when is it appropriate to not be obedient?

Knight’s kyra


I believe that in my relationship I will obey always.  I trust that he will not put my life in jeapordy.  If someones life was in danger, by all means... disobey.

1st Girl Phoenix

_____________________________

**Pain is just pleasure with a twist**

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RE: Obedience - 4/1/2006 7:35:19 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

In my slavery to my Master, obedience is obeying, at all times, in all things.  i don't use the term blind obedience, because to me that always meant obeying without knowing, understanding and trusting.  i trust Master completely, and while i may not know or understand a command, i know and understand Him, so obeying it is not done "blindly."  i have faith in his orders. 

i have to echo what Celeste said - it is never inappropriate to disobey, although there may be times i have no choice.  He will take that into account when assessing the situation.

Great points here- I'll just add that I think thought you do not have blind obedience over the long term relationship, you can have blind obedience for a particular order or task.

Blind obedience can also be used to refer to someone who is blinded by their faith- they are so in love, or so in lust, or so swept away that they aren't really SEEING the situation, so they obey blindly.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Obedience - 4/1/2006 8:02:10 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Notice to slaves joining House Iron Bear on Obedience:

  Obedience training is part of the training every slave will undergo in my home whilst still in a House Collar.. Over time you will learn that I will never command you to do anything which will place you in danger except in emergencies and the command you will obey is the lesser of two evils with the greatest chance of survival. If I order you to jump, you only have two questions allowed, “How high?” and “Which way?” Your instinctive obedience will develop as we grow in trust and understanding of each other. AS you progress you will find that I generally don’t give many orders or commands as such, but I let it be known what I want done and by when. You will also learn such things as to anticipate when I need coffees and when I need teas. In this way when I do issue an order it is important and may save you or someone’s life or limb. You should remember that during the course of my career, I have body guarded many VIP’s in “Hot Zones” it by my team and clients obeying instantly that they still live…. This is what I require from you. Not blind obedience but immediate obedience based on respect, trust and faith in my judgment. If you can not develop that, we have no place being together and you need a less strict Master. I do expect that sometimes you will want top question why to some commands.. This is natural and healthy. Perhaps I will give you the answer you seek or perhaps I will simply say “It was my will,,,” in which case I expect you to figure things out and come to me with the answer you have found. I never do anything with out a reason. As a slave in either my House Collar or in my Personal Collar, I am under no obligation to explain my reasoning or actions but often I will do so in order that you understand.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Obedience - 4/1/2006 9:18:30 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		IB just saved me a lot of typing. What he said apart from my 'minding' experience not having involved firearms, but the same overall aproach.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: Obedience - 4/1/2006 9:31:22 AM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

In the context of authority structure relationships, what is obedience? 

What distinguishes it from the term blind obedience? 

When is it appropriate to be obedient and when is it appropriate to not be obedient?

How does someone define what is detrimental to their well-being? 

Who decides if an order is detrimental or not, the one in authority or the one obeying?

Knight's kyra


Obedience is a slave following a Masters command wether explicit or implicit.

It is not blind obedience because slave is choosing to follow the commands.

It is always appropriate to be obedient, not just that but required.

Someone has to learn to distinguish between a want and a need. Someone has to always trust the Master to know.

The one in authority makes all decisions.

Now of course we are all wondering krya if you are just making conversation or if something happened lately that has made you worry about the trust you have in your Owner. Alot of people here says trust gets easier over time but I don't think that is true because the things that test that trust get bigger and bigger and harder and harder.

well wishes to you and your sister

kisshou



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RE: Obedience - 4/1/2006 9:38:06 AM   
Angeni


Posts: 88
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I do expect that sometimes you will want top question why to some commands.. This is natural and healthy. Perhaps I will give you the answer you seek or perhaps I will simply say “It was my will,,,” in which case I expect you to figure things out and come to me with the answer you have found

Greetings Master IronBear. I just wanted to say that the words you have spoken here brought back such memories of my late Master. Often, his favorite words to our questions of 'why' were a simple 'because I wish it to be so'. He would then wait for us to figure out the reasoning on our own. I must say, lol, there was often a feeling of 'Duh' when the answers hit me.

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: Obedience - 4/1/2006 10:08:19 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

When is it appropriate to be obedient and when is it appropriate to not be obedient?



If one is mine, it is never appropriate to not be obedient.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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