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RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/16/2010 7:48:29 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		It's not controversial and she is doing nothing inappropriate. They have already wasted too much time trying to be bipartisan.
I would have passed this a year ago with no consultation whatsoever of any Republicans. That way you people would not have had the time to manufacture lies like death panels and other lies about health care reform.
This bill will be as popular as Social Security in the future especially when they pass the public option to improve it.  It will pass so deal with it - and it's only the beginning.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

Unbelievable. She has bigger balls than any man in Washington , past or present.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi may try to pass the controversial health care reform bill without making members vote on it.




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RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/16/2010 10:43:48 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		I am guilty of overestimating the man quite often, but I don't think Obama will allow this political suicide. First, passage of any bill in this manner is likely to be overturned by the SCOTUS. Second, if it somehow survives SCOTUS, all it does is get them to reconciliation where the bill will be neutered. Third, it would be the end of the Democrats majority in both houses, and ensure that Obama is a one term President.

Claims that the procedure is somehow standard are bullshit. Like reconciliation, it has never been used for a bill of anything close to this magnitude, and always for bills that had bipartisan support, which is why it has never been challenged.


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RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/16/2010 11:37:31 PM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Is that a bad thing?

At least she is trying to get something done in the face of Republican obstructionism that has no real purpose except to pander to their base.



Ditto that!

quote:

I am SO dissappointed with the president and how quickly he gave into the GOP.


I think the problem is the leave behinds that Cheney left. They are totally fucking things up that the people want done from the word go and all in the name of Haliburton interests!

They call it a stay behind. It’s sort of an intelligence term of art. When you leave a country and, you know, you’ve driven out the, you know, you’ve lost the war. You leave people behind. It’s a stay behind that you can continue to contacts with, to do sabotage, whatever you want to do. Cheney’s left a stay behind. He’s got people in a lot of agencies that still tell him what’s going on. Particularly in defense, obviously. Also in the NSA, there’s still people that talk to him.

< Message edited by DarlingSavage -- 3/16/2010 11:40:11 PM >

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RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/16/2010 11:49:45 PM   
DarlingSavage


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Is that a bad thing?

At least she is trying to get something done in the face of Republican obstructionism that has no real purpose except to pander to their base.



Ditto that!

quote:

I am SO dissappointed with the president and how quickly he gave into the GOP.


I think the problem is the leave behinds that Cheney left. They are totally fucking things up that the people want done from the word go and all in the name of Haliburton interests!

quote:

They call it a stay behind. It’s sort of an intelligence term of art. When you leave a country and, you know, you’ve driven out the, you know, you’ve lost the war. You leave people behind. It’s a stay behind that you can continue to contacts with, to do sabotage, whatever you want to do. Cheney’s left a stay behind. He’s got people in a lot of agencies that still tell him what’s going on. Particularly in defense, obviously. Also in the NSA, there’s still people that talk to him.



Ok, now, that is TOTALLY fucking wierd. I heard this interview on NPR from BBC. It has been removed from the BBC website. Furthermore, the recording of the interview has been removed from the link above, which at first, I thought that was a link to BBC, but when I saw it wasn't, I went to find it sourced at BBC as they are respectable. Just pretty fucking wierd. Just sayin'.

< Message edited by DarlingSavage -- 3/16/2010 11:55:06 PM >

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RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 3:05:12 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I am guilty of overestimating the man quite often, but I don't think Obama will allow this political suicide. First, passage of any bill in this manner is likely to be overturned by the SCOTUS. Second, if it somehow survives SCOTUS, all it does is get them to reconciliation where the bill will be neutered. Third, it would be the end of the Democrats majority in both houses, and ensure that Obama is a one term President.

Claims that the procedure is somehow standard are bullshit. Like reconciliation, it has never been used for a bill of anything close to this magnitude, and always for bills that had bipartisan support, which is why it has never been challenged.





Wolfensberger said self-executing rules often have been employed at an earlier stage, rather than for final passage of a bill. He said he knows of four instances when a measure that was deemed to have been passed went directly to the White House. The first, in 1933 during the Great Depression, involved Senate amendments to legislation pertaining to the United States' creditworthiness. The tactic was employed twice in the 1990s, by Democrats on a bill involving the Family Medical Leave Act, and by Republicans on a measure involving a line-item veto. Most recently, it was used a few weeks ago, when the House voted on both an increase in the debt ceiling and a pay-as-you-go budget provision.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/16/AR2010031602746.html?wprss=rss_politics/congress

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RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 5:01:22 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Is that a bad thing?

At least she is trying to get something done in the face of Republican obstructionism that has no real purpose except to pander to their base.



No, she's trying to get something done in the face of the democrats who are afraid to vote, because they might lose votes in the next election.


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RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 5:19:54 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I wonder how many have already lost that election.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 7:31:28 AM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline 		Woops, I was a little tipsy last night. It wasn't on BBC cause it was Terry Gross from Fresh Air. My bad. Here it is.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 8:19:17 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I wonder how many have already lost that election.

Not enough.

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RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 11:30:13 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		You act as though this has never been done before, the last time the GOP controlled the House and Senate, they did it 35 times, seems they had no problem with it then.  And for the GOP and others to say is against the law, well the GOP proved  it was not "now being called unconstitutional by WSJ editorialists, was defended by House Republicans in court (and upheld)."

Norm Ornstein, a congressional scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, criticized Republicans for feigning indignation over House Democrats’ possible use of a self-executing rule to pass health reform. Noting that House Republicans used the rule more than 35 times in one session of Congress, Ornstein writes, “Is there no shame anymore?”

< Message edited by housesub4you -- 3/17/2010 11:50:48 AM >

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RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 12:37:45 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

You act as though this has never been done before, the last time the GOP controlled the House and Senate, they did it 35 times, seems they had no problem with it then.  And for the GOP and others to say is against the law, well the GOP proved  it was not "now being called unconstitutional by WSJ editorialists, was defended by House Republicans in court (and upheld)."

Norm Ornstein, a congressional scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, criticized Republicans for feigning indignation over House Democrats’ possible use of a self-executing rule to pass health reform. Noting that House Republicans used the rule more than 35 times in one session of Congress, Ornstein writes, “Is there no shame anymore?”


Only for bills with bi-partisan support. Repeated use of an unconstitutional procedure doesnt make it constituional.

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RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 1:21:33 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

You act as though this has never been done before, the last time the GOP controlled the House and Senate, they did it 35 times, seems they had no problem with it then.  And for the GOP and others to say is against the law, well the GOP proved  it was not "now being called unconstitutional by WSJ editorialists, was defended by House Republicans in court (and upheld)."

Norm Ornstein, a congressional scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, criticized Republicans for feigning indignation over House Democrats’ possible use of a self-executing rule to pass health reform. Noting that House Republicans used the rule more than 35 times in one session of Congress, Ornstein writes, “Is there no shame anymore?”


Only for bills with bi-partisan support. Repeated use of an unconstitutional procedure doesnt make it constituional.


But Republicans just look the other way when other Republicans do it?

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 1:23:39 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		It is nooo big surprise Nazi (oops Nancy) Pelosi would do something like this.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 1:53:48 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

You act as though this has never been done before, the last time the GOP controlled the House and Senate, they did it 35 times, seems they had no problem with it then.  And for the GOP and others to say is against the law, well the GOP proved  it was not "now being called unconstitutional by WSJ editorialists, was defended by House Republicans in court (and upheld)."

Norm Ornstein, a congressional scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, criticized Republicans for feigning indignation over House Democrats’ possible use of a self-executing rule to pass health reform. Noting that House Republicans used the rule more than 35 times in one session of Congress, Ornstein writes, “Is there no shame anymore?”


Only for bills with bi-partisan support. Repeated use of an unconstitutional procedure doesnt make it constituional.


But Republicans just look the other way when other Republicans do it?



To pass a bi-partisan bill under a simplified procedure? Why bother? It benefitted Dems as muchs as the GOP and there was no reason to challenge it. A complaint has already been drafted and will be filed if Blowboy is stupid enough to take this route. Looking at the Court and precedents it may not even be a close SCOTUS decision. 6-3 or even 7-2.

Its the best case scenario for those against the bill. It pisses off 75% of the country, still doesnt get health care passed, and ensures a GOP majority in both houses come November.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 3/17/2010 2:02:06 PM >

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RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 2:26:25 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		I have said for some time that the real fight starts if/when this abomination passes.
It's the repeal, stupid.

(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 2:32:45 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I have said for some time that the real fight starts if/when this abomination passes.
It's the repeal, stupid.



Its too big a risk. Its a nightmare scenario if it passes, the economy turns around (as it inevitably will, despite the bumbling in Washington), Blowboy gets reelected. After that its a new third rail and repeal will be nearly impossible.

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RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 2:35:14 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I have said for some time that the real fight starts if/when this abomination passes.
It's the repeal, stupid.



Could you tell me specifically what it is in this bill that you are opposed to.  Please be specific because all I have seen in the discussion so far is "its bad" "its good".

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 2:37:25 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I have said for some time that the real fight starts if/when this abomination passes.
It's the repeal, stupid.



Its too big a risk. Its a nightmare scenario if it passes, the economy turns around (as it inevitably will, despite the bumbling in Washington), Blowboy gets reelected. After that its a new third rail and repeal will be nearly impossible.


So you are saying that you want the economy to continue to tank?

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 2:41:21 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I have said for some time that the real fight starts if/when this abomination passes.
It's the repeal, stupid.



Its too big a risk. Its a nightmare scenario if it passes, the economy turns around (as it inevitably will, despite the bumbling in Washington), Blowboy gets reelected. After that its a new third rail and repeal will be nearly impossible.


So you are saying that you want the economy to continue to tank?


Health care has nothing to do with the economy tanking, and the bill will do nothing to improve the economy.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Queen Pelosi: "I deem this passed". - 3/17/2010 2:49:07 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I have said for some time that the real fight starts if/when this abomination passes.
It's the repeal, stupid.



Its too big a risk. Its a nightmare scenario if it passes, the economy turns around (as it inevitably will, despite the bumbling in Washington), Blowboy gets reelected. After that its a new third rail and repeal will be nearly impossible.
And something becomes a "third rail" how Willbeur?...by being an essential and integral part of American life ala Social Security?.....yeah I can see the disaster that would be to your own political ideology.An actual sucessful reform of the Health Care Industry by Democratic leadership.....Oh will the powers that be spare us this Democratic success!!!!!!

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Profile   Post #: 40
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