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Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/17/2010 12:17:44 PM   
MistSelene


Posts: 4
Joined: 3/17/2010
Status: offline 		Before I go any further I want to express my appreciation to all of you. I have been lurking here for quite some time and have enjoyed the benefits of your experience.

However an incident happened the other day that I am still infuriated about and I wanted to get some input from the experts, (and maybe rant a little).

First a little background. I discovered about a year ago my husband’s submissive tendencies. With the support of some amazing Dommes I met online and an online training program we started to nurture this new aspect to our relationship. Has it always been perfect? Of course not, but it has been amazing for both of us. The intensity, communication and intimacy has gone through the roof and after 12 years of marriage we could not ask for anything more.

I would not call us lifestyle per se. We always both try to emphasize the dominant / submissive roles but I can’t keep my boy on a leash all the time, (as much as I would like to). However I got the idea that for one month we would really try to “live” the lifestyle. Of course my boy was very eager, so we set a date and I started to make plans.

The date arrived and I thought I would start off with a bang. I would send my sub shopping for a few things with the ultimate goal that he would be serving dinner for a friend and I dressed like a slave. Now I actually did not have my friend coming over because I wanted to gauge whether my sub would be able to handle the humiliation, but I thought it would be a way to set the tone. My sub has always “appreciated” the humiliation aspect of submission so I was not worried.

To make it a little more intense I thought I would send him with a sealed note to our favorite sex store. We had shopped there together and apart and we never had a problem. I thought I would phone them beforehand just to make sure it was okay but could never get through or a real person but I figured it should not be a problem.

Without going into too much detail because this is getting long already, the note was very straightforward, or so I thought. I mentioned we needed a few things but if the person was not able to help us for any reason to please reseal the note and send my husband on his way. I recognize that not everyone has the time or inkling to do these sort of things but I figured that picking out a couple of thongs, a cock ring, a crop and an instructional book was pretty tame. Worst case was my sub would be sent away and I would make adjustments. Yes I am a planner.

Wow, was I wrong. The woman at the store said she felt uncomfortable. If she had left it there and sent my sub away I would have no problem. I clearly mentioned that I appreciated the favor but did not expect anything if there was a problem. Then she starts to berate my sub saying he should never bring a note like this into a sex store and next time she is going to call the cops!

Now my poor sub who has not seen the note immediately apologizes and leaves but wonders what the hell is going on. He calls me and I tell him to read the note and we spend the next several minutes trying to figure out what was so infuriating to the clerk. I am still not sure. Maybe she was having a bad day, maybe she was being protective of my sub, I have no clue.

Definitely a mood killer though.

So maybe this is a cautionary tale, I don’t know. Anyway thanks for letting me rant.
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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/17/2010 12:48:59 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		Don't shop there again.. but to be honest, sex store or not.. I don't personally think its approriate to involve others in your stuff.  Its yours.. and while it was a sex store.. I'm going to assume it wasn't Leatherman in NY or Mr. S in SF which might have handled it differently.  Your garden variety sex store isn't likely to be welcoming to your kink.. no matter how innocuous you might feel it is.  I wouldn't waste a lot of time being angry over it.  Should the clerk have treated your husband poorly?  No.. but then again, I think you are also responsible for putting the clerk into an akward and perhaps inappropriate position. 

Vote with your feet.. shop elsewhere.. give him a list and let him do some searching and find the things online for you.

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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/17/2010 1:35:28 PM   
GraciousLady


Posts: 529
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline 		Wow! What an awful expierence for your sub to go through. Although Madame makes a good point by saying you should not have sent a note I believe the clerk behaved in a way that was way beyond wrong. I mean, she works in a sex shop not the mall. Calling the police over a note asking for several rather tame items is just crazy. Madame is also spot on when she says shop elsewhere.

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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/17/2010 1:39:21 PM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline 		You essentially involved another person without their consent. Did they over react? Maybe.

Not everyone working in a sex store is actually open minded toward kink. Some people are just there to earn a paycheck. So they may have felt humiliated themselves which in that case, their over reaction seems justifiable.

As suggested above, give the list to your partner, and if he needs help finding something the clerk should be able to point out where in the store that item is located. That is part of their job. Reading letters, finding the stuff for your partner without your partner knowing what the item is, isn't part of their job. That's like asking an innocent bystander to session with your sub, for free.

Whether you subscribe to the tenants of Safe, Sane, Consensual, or Risk Aware Consensual Kink, consent is the common denominator. That means consent from all parties involved. Not just you and your sub.

Again, as suggested above, I'd shop elsewhere. Just don't forget the little lesson you learned.

Enjoy.

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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/17/2010 1:47:50 PM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GraciousLady

Wow! What an awful expierence for your sub to go through. Although Madame makes a good point by saying you should not have sent a note I believe the clerk behaved in a way that was way beyond wrong. I mean, she works in a sex shop not the mall. Calling the police over a note asking for several rather tame items is just crazy. Madame is also spot on when she says shop elsewhere.


I agree that threatening to call the police was a bit over the top.

However, I liken this to the situation where many self-proclaimed submissive men think that ALL dominas are just kinky whores who are happy to help the guy get his kinky rocks off.

We do not know how many men or couples go to sex stores trying to exploit the staff and unconsensually involve them in their kink. I can only imagine how annoying that must be to the staff at those stores. Perhaps the employee had just had one too many people pushing their kinks on them that day, and they snapped.

We can never truly know without asking that employee.

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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/17/2010 1:51:35 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Agreed with Madame4a.  You did pretty good in the concept department, but you didn't do your leg work.  Rather than sending your husband to the shop with the note, you would have been better off going to this particular store and speaking to the clerk prior to putting your plan into practice.  What you could have done was visit the store during the non peak hours (a Wednesday afternoon, for example) so you could speak to someone there yourself to see if they would consent to joining in your little game.  If/when you find someone who is willing to play along, find out when that person is working and specifically send your husband during those times and specifically to her/him.  That's the difference between having an accomplice (which your husband never knows, because you make that first visit without him) and involving a third party who hasn't consented to be a part of all this.

You might be interested in this thread http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2792576&key=purse where the same subject came up.  Here's the post that I contributed to that thread, which goes into a little more detail.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

All of the above is why you don't want to go about this in this way.  Here's a page out of the Dominant's Handbook.  This is the part that happens behind the scenes that the boys who enjoy these kinds of humiliation games that they don't know until someone tells them.

When it comes to things like lingerie shopping, toy shopping, or any other situation that could be used to set up these little things, I tend to go to the same business over and over.  I get to know the sales people.  In the beginning, I'll drop a little hint that I happen to be a kinky person.  This is usually pretty easy with the famous purse that looks like a stiletto boot bottom that has the chains on it.  I see how that is received (most people love that thing) and go on from there.  If they aren't receptive, I wish them a good day.

If they are receptive, I may discuss an idea a little more and I *ask* them if they would be willing to be a part of it.  Some will and some won't.  When I find those that will, I find out what days they work and what hours would be good to pull something like what I have in mind off.  My little game shouldn't be done during their high customer hours, because I have no right to drive their business away.  Before I leave, and this is important, I tip them and I tip them well.

All of this happens before the boy has ever stepped one foot inside the lingerie shop or the toy store to buy that dildo.  I've already done the set up and he doesn't have a clue.  I'm not involving someone behind the counter that doesn't want to be.  Sometimes, you get really lucky and find someone who actually enjoys being a part of all this. 




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(in reply to Madame4a)
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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/17/2010 1:54:05 PM   
MistSelene


Posts: 4
Joined: 3/17/2010
Status: offline 		All very valid points and I agree. Obviously my sense of familiarity with the place and the people clouded my judgment.

Lesson learned.

(in reply to Domin8tingUrDrmz)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/17/2010 1:58:44 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with all the posts above. However our sex shop right down the street would have laughed their ass's off and would have gleefully joined in! lol Hell, they may have discounted some of the stuff too. Last time I was there the chicky was sharing stories with me and gave me a couple of hints.

The phone call you wanted to place was a great idea and I think you tried to cover everything, but should have waited until you got through to someone. Kudo's for thinking of it though!


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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/17/2010 4:06:41 PM   
MzticStormz


Posts: 59
Joined: 3/19/2005
Status: offline 		Anytime you involve another person without pre-approval, you are taking a risk that something like this or worse can happen. I am perhaps over protective but I avoid this situation like the plague. You also have to take into account that someone going into a business with a sealed envelope would automatically put someone on *red alert* simply because of all the possibilities of robery etc.. so the over-reaction (and yes I think it was an over-reaction) could be because that person might have been robbed in that way previously. You just never know.

Mz Stormz

oops it was supose to be in reply to the OP sorry Lockit

< Message edited by MzticStormz -- 3/17/2010 4:08:11 PM >

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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/17/2010 5:20:33 PM   
Tantriqu


Posts: 2026
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		I agree that the clerk probably had a lot of do-me guys getting their solo rocks off with a similar scenario. As they say, walk a mile in her shoes before ye judge.


What has been very successful for me is going to a sex shop with a new sub: they're wearing a tight shirt, tight jeans, tight underwear so they can try things over their clothes. If they have any questions, they have to ask the salesclerk [and I agree, go on a weekday, but some of the best salesfolk work in those shoppes]. If it's my turn to treat, I've given them money beforehand in their front pockets which they have to dig out [or I do if the salesfolk are cool].
So for your scenario, you could have gone with him and made him ask questions about each item on your list: 'do you have something in my size? Gulp! Perhaps something smaller? Now this: what would you recommend? Gah!' Really cute watching strong men blush but go ahead with their task> VERRRRy sexy.

PS
If traffic is light, he 'chauffeurs' me home with me in the back, purring over his purchases in between ordering him to keep his eyes on the road. We don't always make it all the way home!

< Message edited by Tantriqu -- 3/17/2010 5:23:03 PM >

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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/17/2010 8:47:20 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		fr
This is one of the reasons it is not a good idea to involve strangers in your kink.


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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/18/2010 6:11:25 AM   
MissBeautiful2U


Posts: 98
Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline 		I can see the point that others made regarding expecting the clerk to read the list and get the items, but I think the reaction about calling cops was way over the top.  Let's suppose that instead of handing the list, he opened it up and asked for each item.  Then the clerk would have been doing their job.  I've worked retail before and had guys come in with a list from their wife of the things they needed and wifes come in with lists from their husbands. (home improvement store).  Granted this wasn't in sealed envelope.

So going from a list of items and helping person find the things seems like part of retail sales.


(in reply to MistSelene)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/18/2010 4:53:46 PM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		Note, the clerk was a paranoid and over-reacted.

HOWEVER, consider this the clerks POV.  Let's assume it is a 23 year old girl, just earning a living.  She works in a sex shop, so I bet that she gets hit on at work, probably by a lower class of perverts than usual.

A strange 40 year old man comes up to her and gives her a note.  She does not know that the wife exists, for all she knows this is just one of the many lonely perverts looking for a playmate, using the note as a 'opening line'/come on.

In her position, I can understand her nervousness, and even know why she threatened to call the police.  Yes, what she did was extreme, but understandable.

Now, lets assume she wasn't 23.  What if she was 18, just out of High School, without any college.  What if she was your daughter?    I might advise my 18 old daughter to call the police if given a note like that one.


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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/18/2010 5:31:19 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

Yep, this is a story of  possible paranoia and the involvement of someone else in a private kink .  It also involved someone, in particular, who may have paranoid but is at the same time a member of a group - shop assistants - that is badly-paid and put-upon on a daily basis by the people they serve.  They can be ready to explode, so I've seen, if they're on the receiving end of more than the standard rudeness that they've got used to.

I think I'd have made sure to get hold of the assistant in question before the sealed-note incident occurred, made friendly overtures - and possibly even offered a little financial incentive.

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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/18/2010 6:05:43 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Ok, I don't view this as involving someone else in your kink. Unless the note said something about him being your sub, etc. I got the impression from your post that you simply listed several items that you wanted him to purchase. Not even saying that he wouldn't know what they were when he paid for them, simply not knowing what you were asking for to begin with.

I don't care if she is 23, 18, or 55. She is working in a sex shop. Part of her job is to be able to help customers choose items to purchase and to have a basic knowledge of the product.

He could just as easily gone into the store, handed the woman the list and said "my wife is planning a surprise for me, and asked that I pick up these items." Any idiot would figure out that if the envelope was sealed so as not to spoil his surprise.

As for calling the cops? What is she going to say? A customer came in with a list he wanted me to fill and I didn't like the idea of doing it? The cops would laugh their asses off.

Sometimes the concept of "not involving others in your kink" can go a bit too far. If you wanted, you could consider talking to the clerk about the different crops to be involving her in your kink. If she doesn't feel comfortable with the various toys the store sells, she shouldn't work there.

(in reply to MistSelene)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/18/2010 6:51:13 PM   
MistSelene


Posts: 4
Joined: 3/17/2010
Status: offline 		Obviously considering the reaction my sub got it was the wrong thing to do. I was lulled into a false sense of familiarity because both my sub and I have shopped there separately and together. Had the one clerk who recognizes my sub on sight been there, I do not believe it would have been a problem at all. She has helped both of us on more than one occasion and was the person I was trying to contact by phone. Being that she is almost always there when I did not get through I was not overly worried. Hindsight...

However I do believe the reaction was over the top. A simple "sorry I cannot help you," would have sufficed. I was not intentionally trying to involve anyone in our fun although obviously the clerk thought so.

It has definitely been a learning experience and I appreciate your all of your comments. It has also convinced me that neither my sub or I will set foot in this store again. I fully respect that the clerk may have felt uncomfortable, for this we are both sorry, but berating a customer and threatening them is not appropriate.

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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/18/2010 7:02:17 PM   
MsMillgrove


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		Because we don't know exactly what the note said, bit hard to know how it might affect the clerk. I never thought about the sealed envelope sparking some past experience or pushing a fear button. But the way she reacted, didn't seem like she was really frightened, did it? Sounded more like it was a camel's straw.

Well the story is a good reminder of how things can go awry when you send the sub alone without a dry run first and an agreement made ahead of time with whomever you wanted to involve.

I had the opposite experience. I went on a shopping trip to a very posh vanilla riding shop...and chose some beautiful crops for my toy bag. When I brought them up to the counter, with my driver standing next to me, the clerk said "Oh looks like someone is going to get a good whipping" and she smiled at him. He smiled back, although he isn't into kink. He really enjoyed watching my reaction. I blushed beet red. I was so embarassed.

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/18/2010 7:38:03 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		I don't think you're taking the assistant's concerns seriously, LL. That envelope could have contained a crack squad of Al Qaeda hit men for all she knew.

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RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/18/2010 8:28:51 PM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline 		MistSelene,

I don't mean to cast aspersions on your little subby boy (but I'm going to do it, anyway), but how do you know that's what happened? How do you know he didn't go in there, got cold feet and couldn't go through with the scenario, and made up a story to explain why he came home toy-less?

I'm having a really hard time believing that someone (of any age or gender) who works in a sex shop would get that bent out of shape if the note was as innocuous as you say. The little voices in my head tell me there's something more to this.

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Shopping and the Male Sub - A cautionary tale? - 3/18/2010 10:09:07 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I don't think you're taking the assistant's concerns seriously, LL. That envelope could have contained a crack squad of Al Qaeda hit men for all she knew.


No I'm not. She opened the envelope. She read it. That's when she became outraged.

As I said, if the note was filled with a bunch of "This is my sub, and I'm sending him on errands..." then yes she was being involved in their kink. The OP still hasn't been very specific about what the note said other than it was "straightforward." That, to me, means, "here is a list of things to be purchased.....If you can't do this, thank you for your time."

Let's get real here, someone who is inhibited about sex isn't working at a sex shop. A customer coming in with a list of things to be purchased is not that strange, even in a sealed envelope. As I mentioned earlier, plenty of customers will come in and ask for advice/opinions about various products. If this makes her uncomfortable, she shouldn't be in that job.

Perhaps the OP would be kind enough to tell us specifically what the note said to determine whether her reaction was indeed appropriate or completely ridiculous.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 20
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