RE: Women's Rights! (Full Version)

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Aynne88 -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/19/2010 10:47:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Abortion is a medical procedure. Like many other medical procedures, it has its lot of detractors. Those that don't like it shouldn't have it. Those that need it should be able to access it through the normal channels, like any other medical procedure that is deemed necessary by the patient's medical practioner. Those holier than thou moralists that would like to keep abortion coverage out of a healthcare bill as if it were some kind of "luxury treatment" need to keep out of the grown-up game if they don't like its consequences, but one of the consequence, at times, is termination of pregnancy.

This country TRULY needs to get its head out of its arse when it comes to abortion, and to recognise it for what it is: a medical procedure that won't please everyone, but  that is medically necessary for those that seek it. Enough with women's wombs being hijacked by politicians trying to score cheap points with the fucking retarded segment of the electorate.

Fuck.




*That* Brava kittin. Fuck is right. [8|].




came4U -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/19/2010 11:13:41 PM)

quote:

As a general answer, since the fetus is not considered a legal person, then there is no reason that abortions should be denied coverage.


On that subject and women's rights, Emily Murphy (and 4 other women, known as "the Famous Five.") fought to have women considered 'persons' under the law (The British North America Act, or BNA Act, of 1867) which at that time denied women access to the vote, ability to run for office nor serve as a civil elected official.

If these women didn't stand up to the system (to win even the vote in 1918) as well as the ability to enter the Parliamentary service, who knows how long it would have continued that Canadian women were 'non-persons-under the law'.

but, on that subject in reference to abortion, when will anyone (if ever) give the same dignity and rights to a fetus and name it a 'person' since conception?

Abortions (in too many cases) are given because of frivolous activities which require one to think that it is more of a bigger social issue than a health. People don't become pregnant by sitting on park benches minding their business. So how can anyone turn something so intimate, so gosh-darn important and dramatic (the sex act itself) into something so non-chalant or traumatic as abortion? The consequences sometimes are easier to rid of and takes less effort and energy maybe than forethought, in that case. If that is an individuals 'practice' or philosophy, they might want to look into better decision making skills to prevent such 'trauma' in the future.

Should the state pay? People had to vote for that, majority rules. Does it imply that women have more rights or more 'liability' for their own bodies? no. It simply means that others are giving you a means to 'remove' your problem asap, with or without discussion as to preventive accessability.

Abortion isn't a right. It is the inalienable solution from an obvious irresponsible act. If that helps someone sleep better nights to think of it as a 'right', bless em. Some even believe that butterscotch pancakes can float. Doesn't mean I am going to wander IHOP to IHOP seeking to find the magic floatin' pancake.

The ability to be educated into making wise, bodily function decisions is a right, given by the state. Some just forget to do their homework and should be carrying around crib notes for a lifetime. (maybe even write it on their hand, like Sarah Palin).






WyldHrt -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/19/2010 11:19:15 PM)

Please stop ranting, Came4U. The spit and foam is wrecking my keyboard. [8|]




came4U -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/19/2010 11:20:07 PM)

lol, ranting. Haven't ranted yet. Do you have rabies? I think that will be covered under the new health bill.




WyldHrt -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/19/2010 11:22:50 PM)

quote:

lol, ranting. Haven't ranted yet. Do you have rabies? I think that will be covered under the new health bill.

Depends on how you define ranting, I suppose.




ShaharThorne -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/19/2010 11:23:37 PM)

Keyboard need a BJ, Wyld?  I know this one needs one...

Pun intended for more spewing.




slvemike4u -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/19/2010 11:29:01 PM)

[sm=popcorn.gif]Beyond wondering where these woman who see abortion as "non-chalant"(by the way is that actually two words ,with a hyphen?)or for that matter ,and of more immediate concern...where are the woman who see sex as a "frivolous" act(need to find me some of them thar woman)I'm just going to sit back and monitor the responses.
I fully expect some of my favorite posters to be showing up any minute....lol.




Elisabella -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/19/2010 11:31:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

Should the state pay? People had to vote for that, majority rules.



I'm actually very glad the US is a republic and not a democracy. Think what you will about politicians, but many of them have had half a lifetime or more of political training both in school and on the job.

"Majority rules" would lead to people saying they want lower taxes and better schools. Lower gas prices but no war in the Middle East. If there were a way to get rid of corporate lobbyists the system would be perfect, but as it is, the average citizen is not in a position to decide what's best for the country. I say this including myself, I've studied politics, but I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, so I can say what I think should or shouldn't happen but the truth is I don't have the information needed to make that call.

Neither does the 'majority' and the fact that our congressmen make the decisions instead of the gas station attendant is something I would never want to change.




Elisabella -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/19/2010 11:33:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

where are the woman who see sex as a "frivolous" act(need to find me some of them thar woman)


http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-trophy-sex/

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/features/n_8227/

Apparently they're right here on the internet.

How...empowering. [:'(]




came4U -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/19/2010 11:34:30 PM)

quote:

where are the woman who see sex as a "frivolous" act(need to find me some of them thar woman)


I guess they went to bed early for their abortion appts in the morning.

quote:

Neither does the 'majority' and the fact that our congressmen make the decisions instead of the gas station attendant is something I would never want to change.
lol good one, gas station guy (or girl). The Congressmen that appoints such laws would also have to reach a majority within the house.




slvemike4u -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/19/2010 11:37:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

where are the woman who see sex as a "frivolous" act(need to find me some of them thar woman)


http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-trophy-sex/

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/features/n_8227/

Apparently they're right here on the internet.

How...empowering. [:'(]
Okay.I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that was snarkyness?




Elisabella -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/19/2010 11:40:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Okay.I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that was snarkyness?


Heh kinda, just saying that it's actually pretty common, and that I don't think it's something to be encouraged.




slvemike4u -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/19/2010 11:40:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

Should the state pay? People had to vote for that, majority rules.



I'm actually very glad the US is a republic and not a democracy. Think what you will about politicians, but many of them have had half a lifetime or more of political training both in school and on the job.

"Majority rules" would lead to people saying they want lower taxes and better schools. Lower gas prices but no war in the Middle East. If there were a way to get rid of corporate lobbyists the system would be perfect, but as it is, the average citizen is not in a position to decide what's best for the country. I say this including myself, I've studied politics, but I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, so I can say what I think should or shouldn't happen but the truth is I don't have the information needed to make that call.

Neither does the 'majority' and the fact that our congressmen make the decisions instead of the gas station attendant is something I would never want to change.
Yep government by majority rule has been described as 2 wolves and a sheep sitting down and voting on the dinner menu...or something close to that...I think its a Churchill quote(and if you tell me I could have found out on the internet...you go straight to "ignore")




RCdc -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/20/2010 4:18:52 AM)

Heres a question for people like came4u and others of similar feeling.
If a womans abortion was considered a medical need - for example - abortion is recommend by medical staff because of medical complications(child is stillborn/mothers life at risk/cancer etc) - or the woman had been raped and reported, later to find she was prenant from said rape, does that make a difference to those who are against state paid abortion?  In other words, does the reason make a difference?

the.dark.




RCdc -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/20/2010 4:29:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: belladevine
I do not think that being pregnant "requires" medical attention (it is advisable)... women have been having babies for thousands of years without medical attention. some die but who cares?


Half a million women die each year from pregnancy complications.
For every one woman that dies, 20 have severe health complications that are either lifelong or cause death shortly after.
There are then approximately 8 million infant deaths of these children that are born within a week.

So sure, kid yourself that pregnancy doesn't require some sort of medical attention.

And yeah, I care.

the.dark.




rockspider -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/20/2010 5:05:22 AM)


[/quote]

I'm actually very glad the US is a republic and not a democracy. Think what you will about politicians, but many of them have had half a lifetime or more of political training both in school and on the job.

"Majority rules" would lead to people saying they want lower taxes and better schools. Lower gas prices but no war in the Middle East. If there were a way to get rid of corporate lobbyists the system would be perfect, but as it is, the average citizen is not in a position to decide what's best for the country. I say this including myself, I've studied politics, but I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, so I can say what I think should or shouldn't happen but the truth is I don't have the information needed to make that call.

Neither does the 'majority' and the fact that our congressmen make the decisions instead of the gas station attendant is something I would never want to change.
[/quote]
That is a load of absolute hogwash, if you say you studied politics. I live in Denmark and we have democracy on proportional representation, as have all the neighboring countries in northern Europe. Incidentally we have the highest taxation in the world and one of the highest fuel prices in the world (2 dollars for a liter of unleaded 95 octane). It is interesting that a country which for hundreds of years didn’t have any natural resources could also become one of those who had the highest per capita incomes in the world. After all our democratic principles has now been in force for over 150 years.




came4U -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/20/2010 5:27:31 AM)

quote:

If a womans abortion was considered a medical need - for example - abortion is recommend by medical staff because of medical complications(child is stillborn/mothers life at risk/cancer etc) - or the woman had been raped and reported, later to find she was prenant from said rape, does that make a difference to those who are against state paid abortion? In other words, does the reason make a difference?


not to me, no. But those are hypotheticals and hypothetical babies and health concerns and hypothetical incidents., that subject always arises. State paid or not, free or a nickel each abortion, I don't believe in abortion under any circumstance, so, NO. But, we, live in a society that puts a crisis of one situation over the posibility of 'life'. Most tend to believe in the 'take care of YOU/ME self first' policy. I don't, and that is my right, as a woman and a citizen.

*this talk of medical concerns reminds me of the fact that women have been giving birth for thousands of years ...and then you have the Monty Python episode of the 'machine that goes PINGGG'




StrangerThan -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/20/2010 5:48:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Shared responsibility means you raise it together. Beyond that, there is no sharing. A man telling a woman she MUST have an abortion, or she CANNOT have one, is wrong on both sides. What is happening is happening to her alone, she is taking all the risks, no matter what she does. Men have no part until roughly 9 months later... if they are true men.


Is that what you really believe? God what a twisted way of thinking.

A true man will take care of his woman to the best of his ability when she's pregnant. That means fetching the fucking burger with limburger cheese at midnight even though she hates cheese but can't get over the craving for something she despises. I true man will realize that part of what is growing inside her is his responsibility and she is pregnant because of his actions. That means he'll go to the doctor with her and be aware of the risks at each step, the things the doctor says that she might forget or might feel odd saying to you... like take care of her.

I could write a book on this topic but a "true man" who would stay run the fuck away until she has it, at which point, I assume, will begin footing the bill for his responsibility, is nothing close to a true man in my view. He is a social shit pile that, apparently, some woman decided would be great to fuck.








Elisabella -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/20/2010 5:48:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

Heres a question for people like came4u and others of similar feeling.
If a womans abortion was considered a medical need - for example - abortion is recommend by medical staff because of medical complications(child is stillborn/mothers life at risk/cancer etc) - or the woman had been raped and reported, later to find she was prenant from said rape, does that make a difference to those who are against state paid abortion?  In other words, does the reason make a difference?



Yes it would make a difference to me - one is a medical necessity the other is a mental health and/or social issue. However that doesn't change my mind about state paid abortion, it just means that one would be more apt to fall under a healthcare bill while the other would be more apt to fall under a social welfare bill.




Elisabella -> RE: Women's Rights! (3/20/2010 5:51:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rockspider

That is a load of absolute hogwash, if you say you studied politics. I live in Denmark and we have democracy on proportional representation, as have all the neighboring countries in northern Europe. Incidentally we have the highest taxation in the world and one of the highest fuel prices in the world (2 dollars for a liter of unleaded 95 octane). It is interesting that a country which for hundreds of years didn’t have any natural resources could also become one of those who had the highest per capita incomes in the world. After all our democratic principles has now been in force for over 150 years.


Yeah but Denmark's a bit different from the US - you guys toss your kids into a virtually mandatory kindergarden when they're 18 months old, you have very little difference in gender roles, and most importantly you have a shared social consciousness that the welfare of the collective outweighs the desire of the individual. You also don't have the military burden the US does.

In other words it's the polar opposite of the US. And the way conformity plays in there, it's easy to see the bad side of 'majority rule' by the populace.




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