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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 5:12:00 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

Where are your stats of over 50% come from? Your math?


Yep.

38 + 13.8 = 51.8 

What did your math equal?

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 5:13:08 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
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quote:

Lovely. You would force a woman to carry and birth a stillborn triploided chromosome baby because you dislike abortion, to give an example. How nice for the woman.


ah yes, sorry, someone asked me that pages ago. I answered. Why would I consider a fetus that had passed away as a 'person' therefore, of course I would agree (medically) to abort. Graspin' huh? still? Don't ask such ridiculous questions, especially if you didn't read my thoughts on that subject earlier (pages ago)

quote:

the.dark. :Then do you believe in state funded induction of a late term, non fruitful, pregnancy.

me:If that child has passed away by natural causes, and that is proven, yes. In that case, it is no longer the taking of a life.

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/20/2010 5:18:31 PM >

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 5:18:10 PM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

quote:

Lovely. You would force a woman to carry and birth a stillborn triploided chromosome baby because you dislike abortion, to give an example. How nice for the woman.


ah yes, sorry, someone asked me that pages ago. I answered. Why would I consider a fetus that had passed away as a 'person' therefore, of course I would agree (medically) to abort. Graspin' huh? still? Don't ask such ridiculous questions, especially if you didn't read my thoughts on that subject earlier.


Because in that case, the baby does not die until there is no cord support. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 5:19:35 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
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quote:

You would force a woman to carry and birth a stillborn


simple. NO, got it? Any fetus that is 'stillborn' is dead. Don't play with words, dead is dead.

quote:

Yep.

38 + 13.8 = 51.8

What did your math equal?


Aylee:
quote:

Well, by my math, over 50% of reported abortions are for the middle class and above. (51.8%)


quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

Where are your stats of over 50% come from? Your math?


that isn't YOUR math, that is the stat that I posted. That you took liberty to take on as YOURS.

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/20/2010 5:33:48 PM >

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 5:46:05 PM   
ShaharThorne


Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline 		I was a single woman who had a baby after a miscarriage.  I wanted a child since I was 6 (I blame Cooks Children Hospital in Fort Worth).  I help raised my baby brother to where he thought I was his mother.  We had to explain it to him that I was his sister.  I was married 2 times and lost the babies in both marriages (hubby two was a meth head and did not tell me until we were sued for eviction).  Bo and I never did marry but we lived together for so long I think the state of TX declared us as such.

I don't approve of young women (teenagers) getting pregnant because they can.  That is a foolish reason for bringing a child in this world.  My pregnancy was not expected, especially after my 3rd miscarriage and being told that I was not able to carry a baby to full term.  My Lizard is my only miracle child.  I had insurance when I had her, I had a decent job in the retail business and I was able to take her to my job because I was seriously thinking of quitting at the time (did quit later because she could crawl out of her carrier and the store was closing down and relocating to another site).


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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 5:46:06 PM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Yes it would make a difference to me - one is a medical necessity the other is a mental health and/or social issue.



That's the biggest hole in your argument. An unwanted pregnancy carries all kinds of mental anguish. Mental health is a health issue. If a healthy woman is transformed into an incubator for a fetus she does not want to carry to term, she may well go fucking bonkers and need years of therapy, or worse.


I'd take this a step further and say that forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term is injurious to her whether or not she needs therapy over it. ETA: If someone was wrongfully imprisoned for 9 months, you wouldn't require a doctor's diagnosis to determined the person has been wronged. I don't have time at the moment to argue the details, but I think respecting the autonomy of women requires, at the very least, the recognition that a woman in her first trimester is legally and ethically entitled to treat that pregnancy as a parasite and have it removed as such. That's a medical issue. Just as much as getting anti-biotics to kill a bacterial infection, or surgery to remove polyps.


Not to mention that there are also statistics out there that severe distress in the beginning of the pregnancy can increase the risk for mental health problems for the kid itself (too late now - timewise as it is time to get some sleep - to look it up but I used those for a mental health essay last year in regards to schizophrenia).

On a personal note, yes, indeed, you can go bonkers (at least thats how it felt for me) if - for whatever reasons - you feel being unable to continue the pregnancy and I am thankful for the possibility that I had my termination a few years ago. Was it thoughtless sex (or whatever the names chose were in other posts?)

Nope, it wasn't. Guess what, it was even planned....but believe it or not life can still change big time at times when you actually are pregnant and therefore I feel lucky that I had the choice because quite frankly, the way how it is described in some storys, such as in the Harry Potter book (number 6 I think, but can be wrong about that) how "voldemorts mother" struggled to cope during the time of the pregnancy was an illustrated example I could very much sympathise with considering how my situation was...I always used to be a strong anti-abortion person, however that experience did teach me my lesson that you never know what you would actually do unless you come in the situation that you feel the need for it. And comments about how "easy" it would be just make me laugh as you are aware of it that this will always be (to whatever extent) part of your life and despite better healthcare these days there were problems during my termination where they feared to lose me. So whilst at that time it would not have bothered me as such if I would have died during that procedure or not, to talk a la it would be done from the women like taking antibiotics just shows the imaturity from some posters.

Thank goodness we have choice

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 3/20/2010 5:48:10 PM >

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 5:53:44 PM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

that isn't YOUR math, that is the stat that I posted. That you took liberty to take on as YOURS.


You are not even making sense anymore.  Yes, I used the stats you posted to add up the percents in households over 30,000 a year.  The number I got when I added them was over 50%.  You stated that: 
quote:

Does it happen that most might be poorer? Likely, and unfortunately, yes.


News flash for you.  If more than 50% are from middle class families, then NO it is not likely that "most" are poorer. 

And who in the hell cares if I was able to do the math in my head.  Buy a calculator if it bothers you. 


_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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Profile   Post #: 607
RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 5:53:51 PM   
Sanguinarian


Posts: 474
Joined: 8/13/2008
Status: offline 		Regardless of any medical bill for or against abortion, there are some very simple, and very cheap ways to abort an unwanted pregnancy if so desired by any woman at any time.

Therefore, if a woman chooses abortion, all she need to is look up the correct herbs that stimulate uterine contraction. Any apothecary would know these, and any food co-op that sells whole herbs would have this information.

I should think that these much less invasive measures should be brought to light. But oh, wait, that means doctors won't get paid!

I personally am neither for, nor against abortion. And so, being entirely logical, having an abortion is a medical procedure. If it will save a life, then it is a necessary medical procedure. The key word here is MEDICAL. What about those people who have the Lap Band surgery to reduce their weight? If it is medically needed, then medical insurance should cover it. At least some of it. Otherwise, continue being a fat fuck or get on a tread mill.

And here is an example for you. My sister in law just had another baby. A fifth child, because she cannot use birth control, and an abortion prior nearly killed her. But, having this child also nearly killed her. Since she was at risk in so many ways, her insurance would not pay for an abortion. They also are fighting with the insurance to have her tubes tied ( but she bleeds so even that small procedure could kill her)  since her uterus is healthy and so, would not be removed.
Now, this does not leave my brother out of the fault factory either, because he could have gotten his nuts cut. Four times.

It is entirely the responsibility of BOTH parties.. or in some cases, several parties. Condoms, birth control, morning after pills, and if those aren't enough, get to a fucking herbal store and get some red raspberry leaf and black cohosh supplements..

But if an abortion is what is needed, why all the bitching? Sometimes heart medications don't work and the quadruple bypass is what is needed.

And Ken, why the fuck can't the guys say no instead of putting it all on the women?

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Profile   Post #: 608
RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 6:00:29 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanguinarian


Therefore, if a woman chooses abortion, all she need to is look up the correct herbs that stimulate uterine contraction. Any apothecary would know these, and any food co-op that sells whole herbs would have this information.



Well, it is not that difficult to administer too much pennyroyal oil. 

Doin it yourself can be really dangerous. 

If it is the "elective surgery" part that has people in a tizzy, how about allowing RU-486 instead?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Sanguinarian)
Profile   Post #: 609
RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 6:02:20 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
The making of women's bodies into a political battle ground is a much more  recent phenomenon. 


And it is so sickening.

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 6:05:14 PM   
ShaharThorne


Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline 		Some pharmacists are refusing to fill out the prescription for the RU-486.  They cite personal and religious reasons.  They are even doing it despite being threaten their jobs.

_____________________________

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You are making two and a half feet of irresistible, tubular sex! -Lola, Kinky Boots

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Whip me, beat me, make me feel cheap and have great sex

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Profile   Post #: 611
RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 6:07:26 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
If it is the "elective surgery" part that has people in a tizzy, how about allowing RU-486 instead?


The RU makes it "too easy" .

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 6:09:20 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaharThorne

Some pharmacists are refusing to fill out the prescription for the RU-486. They cite personal and religious reasons. They are even doing it despite being threaten their jobs.


Get it from a feminist health center. Like I did.

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 6:11:19 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		I'm not making sense?

quote:

Does it happen that most might be poorer? Likely, and unfortunately, yes.


quote:

News flash for you. If more than 50% are from middle class families, then NO it is not likely that "most" are poorer.


Does the word 'poorer' and the word 'poor' mean the same to you? The further down the income scale "Who's having abortions (income)?
Women with family incomes less than $15,000 obtain 28.7% of all abortions; Women with family incomes between $15,000 and $29,999 obtain 19.5%; Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0%; Women with family incomes over $60,000 obtain 13.8%." is a pattern of ...poorer (I never mention the word poor) women being more likely obviously.

Any more semantics because you don't make sense?

I don't believe in abortion being due because someone is irresponsible and stupid., get over it. No internet women/men are going to change my mind or give me cause to aid in one, nor pat someone on the back for that action and say 'there, there, po thang'.

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 6:12:56 PM   
ShaharThorne


Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline 		I no longer have my uterus.  Too many ovarian cysts and abnormal bleeding (March of '04).

_____________________________

Goddess of Yarn

You are making two and a half feet of irresistible, tubular sex! -Lola, Kinky Boots

Founder: Bitch with Tits

Whip me, beat me, make me feel cheap and have great sex

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Profile   Post #: 615
RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 6:13:48 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		its the pendulum swinging back from the permisiveness of the 70s and 80s
ugly souls run rampant under the guise of morals
true ugliness



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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 6:15:48 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		That is sad Shar, :( but likely you are in a better condition and safer because of that removal. Did you have children beforehand or miss having them because of those illnesses??

quote:

its the pendulum swinging back from the permisiveness of the 70s and 80s
ugly souls run rampant under the guise of morals
true ugliness


you imply the ME generation? k gotcha. those from the 70's and 80's who were kinda ashamed and scoffing of of the 60's generation? Are you saying that those folks are more likely to be against abortion??

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/20/2010 6:21:02 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 617
RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 6:19:03 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
If it is the "elective surgery" part that has people in a tizzy, how about allowing RU-486 instead?


The RU makes it "too easy" .


FINE!  We can make it difficult.  Put togeather a scientific team, create a uterine replicator.  The fetus can be surgically removed from the woman, and placed it in for gestation.  The fetus lives, the woman does not have to carry it or care for it.  Everyone wins. 

Plus the spin-off technologies will bring in some cash for the economy.



_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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Profile   Post #: 618
RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 6:21:33 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U
I don't believe in abortion being due because someone is irresponsible and stupid., get over it. No internet women/men are going to change my mind or give me cause to aid in one, nor pat someone on the back for that action and say 'there, there, po thang'.


The truly cool thing about this is that your beliefs don't mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things, because we can all hop along to the clinic to abort our pregnancies legally, whether you like it or not. And it's oh, so much fucking fun . GET OVER IT :-).

In fact, it's a wonder women don't get more frivolous more often just for the joy of terminating the result of the fun.

The other truly cool thing is that you probably won't ever get pregnant, because I can't see you ever having the kind of sex that would put you at risk. We bask in the marvel of your barrenness.



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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/20/2010 6:21:50 PM   
ShaharThorne


Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline 		I was able to carry Lizard, my daughter to full term.  Had to do some suppositories of progesterone  during the first trimester and no sex...I even got out of work for 3 weeks before the due date so I can put my feet up (had some lite bleeding).  I got my nieces and nephews to cuddle up to (the youngest one has open mouth sugars for me all the time).

_____________________________

Goddess of Yarn

You are making two and a half feet of irresistible, tubular sex! -Lola, Kinky Boots

Founder: Bitch with Tits

Whip me, beat me, make me feel cheap and have great sex

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Profile   Post #: 620
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