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RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 10:14:25 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		It never surprises me when a submissive opens up and tells us about all her past demons. She has celebrated opening herself up sexually. She has revealed and had her fantasy accepted. She has shown us her vulnerabilities and had those very vulnerabilities nurtured. Its liberating and that may be the very same reason she decides to tell us about the darker moments in her life. Telling us about her darker moments should be equally liberating except in most cases they are not are they? we are not therapists and most of us don't know how to handle such a confession. Oh we know how to dominate her and how to take her to that wonderfully hedonistic place but we weren't expecting the baggage too!!
There is a clear pattern to this, we just don't see it and we jump to the wrong assumption that most submissives come into this because they are damaged. They don't, not in most cases anyway.
I was with my ex husband for 10 years before he told me about some awful incident in his past that affected many years of his life. It was 10 years before I took him down that submissive path and it was that path that helped him to open up and free that demon that had haunted him for years.

Dominants do not lay themselves vulnerable in the same sense. They are far less likely to own up to something awful from their past than a submissive is.

_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos


Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 10:36:39 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Dominants do not lay themselves vulnerable in the same sense. They are far less likely to own up to something awful from their past than a submissive is.


I ask them.
If they can't answer then I doubt their self awareness and move on. If they won't answer then I wonder if they are under the misconception that dominance means they should never show any vulnerability, and I move on. .

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 10:40:16 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I don't view being unavailable for emotional intimacy as a dominant trait, myself. Waiting ten years to tell someone a truth about their authentic self is sad and shows enormous fear of rejection. A man strong enough to put himself out there is much more attractive to me. But I strongly believe in the efficacy of therapy in helping us deal with leftover issues and much prefer a man who believes this also.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 10:52:06 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I don't view being unavailable for emotional intimacy as a dominant trait, myself. Waiting ten years to tell someone a truth about their authentic self is sad and shows enormous fear of rejection. A man strong enough to put himself out there is much more attractive to me. But I strongly believe in the efficacy of therapy in helping us deal with leftover issues and much prefer a man who believes this also.

Agreed!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 12:20:23 PM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I don't view being unavailable for emotional intimacy as a dominant trait, myself. Waiting ten years to tell someone a truth about their authentic self is sad and shows enormous fear of rejection. A man strong enough to put himself out there is much more attractive to me. But I strongly believe in the efficacy of therapy in helping us deal with leftover issues and much prefer a man who believes this also.


I agree but I completely understand why that happens. He needed putting in a vulnerable place and he needed to know that he could survive that in my loving arms before he could trust me with his other stuff.
I know there are things that happened to my mum. There have been hints from relatives and unclear stories about a trauma. She never speaks about it to anyone. Its not that she can't trust us, she can't trust herself and her own vulnerability at laying all that buried stuff bare.
There are many victims of rape, of child abuse and so on that take their secret to the grave. Yet on here we see people opening themselves up, telling uninterested parties of people, telling their dominant. Do you think these same people tell their relatives, their close vanilla friends? probably not. They do it because this lifestyle has enabled them to and so they tell us within the lifestyle.


_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos


Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 12:47:12 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I don't view being unavailable for emotional intimacy as a dominant trait, myself. Waiting ten years to tell someone a truth about their authentic self is sad and shows enormous fear of rejection. A man strong enough to put himself out there is much more attractive to me. But I strongly believe in the efficacy of therapy in helping us deal with leftover issues and much prefer a man who believes this also.


I agree but I completely understand why that happens. He needed putting in a vulnerable place and he needed to know that he could survive that in my loving arms before he could trust me with his other stuff.
I know there are things that happened to my mum. There have been hints from relatives and unclear stories about a trauma. She never speaks about it to anyone. Its not that she can't trust us, she can't trust herself and her own vulnerability at laying all that buried stuff bare.
There are many victims of rape, of child abuse and so on that take their secret to the grave. Yet on here we see people opening themselves up, telling uninterested parties of people, telling their dominant. Do you think these same people tell their relatives, their close vanilla friends? probably not. They do it because this lifestyle has enabled them to and so they tell us within the lifestyle.



thank you for reminding me of this upside to this whole thing here we do.  its true and i have grown so much and moved on so much from some positive springboards and safe places.

a Master i left a while ago, who was far too much of a sadist for me in the end, opened up all sorts of stuff to me and you know, it really helped the bonding because i knew he trusted me and felt safe enough to do that.

he was a sadistic bastard but i remember going for a walk and a butterfly went passed and he stopped and said 'oh, pretty!' and gently pointed a finger out to touch it as it went past.  ill never forget that (smiles to self) - it was so cute and it detracted nothing from who we were to each other in terms of Ms.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 2:57:15 PM   
DickSteel


Posts: 148
Joined: 3/20/2010
From: Man of Mystery & Intrigue
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
quote:

ORIGINAL: DickSteel
[snip]
If you had an epiphany from that train wreck of thread Calling all Sadists, you need to cancel your internet subscription and get out in the real world more often.


I never read the rest of that thread, perhaps I should! See how negative advertising works so well

I think the saying goes, We should be aware that people with serious demons like sexual predators and sadistic killers hang out in grocery stores, campuses and malls and just about anywhere, including local BDSM societies.
We are no more or less likely to meet a nutter in this world than any other walk of life but we should never presume that it doesn't exist here.


I think you are wrong. I think we are less likely to meet a violent and dangerous sadistic predator.

Do rapists join swingers clubs because swingers are more sexually promiscuous? Do rapists call escorts at the same ratio they stalk victims in public? At best, a rapist can rob an escort by not paying. That just doesn't seem to have the same appeal does it?

I am not talking about the predator who commits a random snatch and grab on some street walker. Comparing random opportunistic chances for rape or murder are not equivalent to the predator seeking a specific class of person like praying on masochists that are members of a BDSM community, society, club or forum. The predator knows what type of people he is going to encounter before he joins CollarMe, goes to a munch, dungeon party or leather event. It isn't random. So you are wrong, the odds are not the same as the general public. We are a filtered group of people apart from the general public.

Unless being an idiot is prerequisite to being a sadistic predator, why would they hunt for victims in an area known to have an abnormally high concentration of consensual masochists? That just seems silly.

< Message edited by DickSteel -- 3/20/2010 2:59:15 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 4:10:05 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

Unless being an idiot is prerequisite to being a sadistic predator, why would they hunt for victims in an area known to have an abnormally high concentration of consensual masochists? That just seems silly.


that is the premise of 2 threads ago of what I said that caused such a rukkus lol

I said that 'really, what good is a masochist to a true (deep) sadistic fucker' they don't hunt for masochists, it kinda defeats the purpose and takes away their fun. lol

_____________________________

It hurts.....that you call me a masochist


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 4:46:08 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DickSteel
.Unless being an idiot is prerequisite to being a sadistic predator, why would they hunt for victims in an area known to have an abnormally high concentration of consensual masochists? That just seems silly.


because theres a huge difference - i mean a freaking massive difference between being with someone sane and being with someone who is completely off his rocker! - unless of course youre one of those subs that wishes to die for the love of the true sadist

i would imagine that a sadistic predator could employ the correct patter to get a massochist hooked and once on their own he could wreak his own particular madness on the proceedings - would be hard to be submissive in that situation i feel, no matter how much of a masso you might be.

i think its dangerous to suggest that we are any safer here.

i have this odd memory of a clip - a woman being pursued around a small bedroom by someone with a blow torch.  she had clearly consented to being there because she was screaming 'stop. this isnt worth it' - i presumed she meant by that the money she was being paid to submit to extreme sadism - i dont know where that memory comes from, but it was deeply disturbing.  it might have been on the telly and had something to do with snuff vids.  any hoo, you prolly get my point.  she had been burnt really badly and was trying to hide behind the small bed when i switched the programme off.

i would argue, in fact, that because of how we present ourselves we are possibly even more likely to find ourselves in a bad place

< Message edited by lally2 -- 3/20/2010 4:50:21 PM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to DickSteel)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 4:59:11 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

because theres a huge difference - i mean a freaking massive difference between being with someone sane and being with someone who is completely off his rocker! - unless of course youre one of those subs that wishes to die for the love of the true sadist


Don't forget lally, you are talking to people that if they told others (at work, family etc) what we talk about here (for example) and what some of us 'do' for enjoyment, thrills, love, etc....they would consider both you and the rest of us as 'off our rockers.

I see you have (is it recent??) seen some weird stuff on tv. I worry somehow, something you read, or saw traumatized you into second guessing 'things' (not quite sure what??) or yourself in the scheme of things?

quote:

i would argue, in fact, that because of how we present ourselves we are possibly even more likely to find ourselves in a bad place


anyone submissive (in profile, or physical actions in the real world) can 'seem' to be a walking, sitting, typing duck. That is why some come back after a meet or a really bad email to notify of how they were taken advantage of, right? Does that stop others from wanting to or claiming to be submissive? no. They keep on truckin', carry on as per usual.

You are just worrying too much about things that are out of your control to fix maybe and wanting to or hoping others will be safe?? You can't babysit everybody--lol. But, I do understand your concerns.

_____________________________

It hurts.....that you call me a masochist


(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 7:08:53 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		FR......

Most of this is just rubbish cooked up by bitter people who got dumped. I went to an orientation meeting in the local community about fifteen years ago and got a bit of a laugh. The speaker was talking about how small the dating pool was,and how people tended to gossip after changing partners.

And that the subs who were pissed off talked about "the predator I dated."

And the Doms talked about "that crazy bitch I had to release."

I don't take most of this very seriously-the percentage of actual predators and crazies can't be as high as it's blown up to be-tempests in teapots.

_____________________________

I didn't get into an alternative lifestyle to explore new frontiers in conformity.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 7:50:58 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

I don't take most of this very seriously-the percentage of actual predators and crazies can't be as high as it's blown up to be-tempests in teapots.


well, I dunno if the threads were real or not lol. Point is, it could scare the shit outta a newby or even a non-newby. (by proxy)

quote:

The speaker was talking about how small the dating pool was,and how people tended to gossip after changing partners.
well, then their victims must have been expecant of something great?? or they chose someone who was unfit anyways.
quote:

And that the subs who were pissed off talked about "the predator I dated."


well again, I think that is what the OP is talking about whether genuine or not, it does come up and it can be concerning (maybe it effects other's decision making skills??) not sure.

_____________________________

It hurts.....that you call me a masochist


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 8:17:16 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

how much are we exposing ourselves to the screwups and fuckups by being here


Every time you stick your nose out the door, real or virtual.

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 8:39:36 PM   
DickSteel


Posts: 148
Joined: 3/20/2010
From: Man of Mystery & Intrigue
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

quote:

Unless being an idiot is prerequisite to being a sadistic predator, why would they hunt for victims in an area known to have an abnormally high concentration of consensual masochists? That just seems silly.


that is the premise of 2 threads ago of what I said that caused such a rukkus lol

I said that 'really, what good is a masochist to a true (deep) sadistic fucker' they don't hunt for masochists, it kinda defeats the purpose and takes away their fun. lol


I read that fiasco. It sure didn't make any sense to me. You guys were all talking about consensual sadists but you superimposed the desires of a criminal mind onto sadistic Tops in the BDSM lifestyle. They are two different creatures. I do not recall "sadistic predator" or "sadistic killers" being the topic of any of those recent sadist threads.

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 8:43:22 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		I never mentioned the word Top, sadistic predator nor sadistic killer lol

others assumed that.

I didn't mention 'consentual sadists' either, never even heard that term before. No worries, it all made no sense to me either.

I guess the term 'consentual sadist' must imply that he/she is conforming to a masochist??? what does that term mean?

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/20/2010 8:45:25 PM >

_____________________________

It hurts.....that you call me a masochist


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 8:53:02 PM   
MstrDark1


Posts: 33
Joined: 12/23/2009
Status: offline 		Lally,
     It doesn't matter  what anyone out there says.... there are predators in this life style and they prey upon the non-realising  submissive. Submissives  that don't know enough to get information on whom they are dealing with. I've met quite a few...and recently a male submissive  who let his Mistress have him castfrated  at the age of 28. That really turned my stomach....Whether  he was telling the truth or telling a story  it didn't set well with me.I've been in this lifestyle for over 40 years...I've seen the good ,the bad, and the ugly.And normally have a good sense of value  for the people i deal with...but there are Dominants  that  wait a while  before they empty  the closet on the unsuspecting sub/slave. Then all of a sudden they become impacted with bull shit that should never have been...They pay for it dearly....The way i look at it.......the internet is a great tool  to bring like minded people together...but it has given the lifestyle a bad name in a lot of respects.Maybe 5%   out here is real and you can tell this  by the Dom  you've been talking  to who is married. Of course his wife is vanilla....so whats he doing....looking for extra curicular  activity.....or is he really Dominant.....They are all over the place.....so  the sub really has to screen who she talks to...she has to play hard ball before she feels comfortable to submit  and then commit.....so Lally  you are right in what you feel...and don't let anyone else change your thoughts.....it's not easy being submissive...and yes  the Dom's  do go through  what you go through  in what they have to do to gain the trust of a good submissive.When you find one suitable thats when the real journey  begins. WIITWD

                                              MstrDark1  owner of Wisdomtogive

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: paranoia - 3/20/2010 8:58:49 PM   
DickSteel


Posts: 148
Joined: 3/20/2010
From: Man of Mystery & Intrigue
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

I never mentioned the word Top, sadistic predator nor sadistic killer lol

others assumed that.

I didn't mention 'consentual sadists' either, never even heard that term before. No worries, it all made no sense to me either.

I guess the term 'consentual sadist' must imply that he/she is conforming to a masochist??? what does that term mean?

The defining line between rape and sex is consent.
The defining line between a sadism as kink vs a mental disorder is consent.

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: paranoia - 3/21/2010 3:52:14 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

FR......

Most of this is just rubbish cooked up by bitter people who got dumped. I went to an orientation meeting in the local community about fifteen years ago and got a bit of a laugh. The speaker was talking about how small the dating pool was,and how people tended to gossip after changing partners.

And that the subs who were pissed off talked about "the predator I dated."

And the Doms talked about "that crazy bitch I had to release."

I don't take most of this very seriously-the percentage of actual predators and crazies can't be as high as it's blown up to be-tempests in teapots.


just incase that got fired at me - im not bitching about anyone, i said that in my OP and i havent been dumped.  im worrying about getting a tad paranoid

but came4u, im not seeing monsters and im not worrying about myself to that degree.  just the thread took this turn and that tv clip (im sure it was about snuff vids now) was ages ago, i was flicking through the channels and that disturbing scene came up.

smut, i havent met any crazies (thank goodness) theyve all been decent people but there is more to this than just physical harm.  as others have said, vanillas can be just as toxic as anyone here and one persons toxic is another persons heaven - im not bashing here -

but i do get frustrated at times when a persons personality is pushed to the side and some perceived domly attitude is adopted instead.

the paranoia is about me, im paranoid about me - making the wrong choice for me and even not making the right choice because ive got so cautious and self protective.

but in the end the common denominator is me - i must be doing something wrong if i keep feeling i have to retreat.







_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to Smutmonger)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: paranoia - 3/21/2010 4:17:12 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrDark1

Lally,
    It doesn't matter  what anyone out there says.... there are predators in this life style and they prey upon the non-realising  submissive. Submissives  that don't know enough to get information on whom they are dealing with. I've met quite a few...and recently a male submissive  who let his Mistress have him castfrated  at the age of 28. That really turned my stomach....Whether  he was telling the truth or telling a story  it didn't set well with me.I've been in this lifestyle for over 40 years...I've seen the good ,the bad, and the ugly.And normally have a good sense of value  for the people i deal with...but there are Dominants  that  wait a while  before they empty  the closet on the unsuspecting sub/slave. Then all of a sudden they become impacted with bull shit that should never have been...They pay for it dearly....The way i look at it.......the internet is a great tool  to bring like minded people together...but it has given the lifestyle a bad name in a lot of respects.Maybe 5%   out here is real and you can tell this  by the Dom  you've been talking  to who is married. Of course his wife is vanilla....so whats he doing....looking for extra curicular  activity.....or is he really Dominant.....They are all over the place.....so  the sub really has to screen who she talks to...she has to play hard ball before she feels comfortable to submit  and then commit.....so Lally  you are right in what you feel...and don't let anyone else change your thoughts.....it's not easy being submissive...and yes  the Dom's  do go through  what you go through  in what they have to do to gain the trust of a good submissive.When you find one suitable thats when the real journey  begins. WIITWD

                                             MstrDark1  owner of Wisdomtogive


MstrDark1 - thank you for posting here, i know that you dont much or havent much.

i really dont wish for this to be about the man ive been seeing, it isnt (and he isnt married) but it is about me being over sensitive and over protective to the point of, i think, a level of paranoia about my ability to make any sort of choice - to stay to go - based on the fact that ive completely lost the thread of whats actually real for people at times and whether that 'reality' is healthy for me.

when you have a basically good person with an approach that doesnt always make you feel good about youreself is that part of the process.

pretty much every D ive ever been with has attempted at some point to make me feel less than i am - and yet later - afterwards when ive had to get out - theyve all, pretty much, told me that i was the best slave theyd ever had.  tell me what thats about.  why demoralise and de-value what you have if you actually believe you have something worth having.

the 'dream' of being risen up to being more than i am - given the 'freedom' of enslavement to fully express myself and let that expand into normal life is still just a dream.  do we really have to be stripped down and laid bare before that can happen. 

really, is that part of the process - have i been missing some basic premis here - that is what keeps happening and its where my paranoia is coming from now - and this isnt (please peeps believe me) a pity party going here - im laughing at myself as i write this - im just genuinely confused right now.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to MstrDark1)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: paranoia - 3/21/2010 5:20:14 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

im just genuinely confused right now.


so am I now lol.

well, dunno, like I said, seems like something(s) triggered that memory (bad memory) and now you are comparing yourself (your ability to think that being vulnerable is safe anymore) to 'others' and what they do.

Try to avoid any excess worry about the weird shit others might do/enjoy even if you believe they aren't fit.

you say that:
quote:

smut, i havent met any crazies (thank goodness) theyve all been decent people but there is more to this than just physical harm. as others have said, vanillas can be just as toxic as anyone here and one persons toxic is another persons heaven - im not bashing here -


and then

quote:

pretty much every D ive ever been with has attempted at some point to make me feel less than i am - and yet later - afterwards when ive had to get out - theyve all, pretty much, told me that i was the best slave theyd ever had. tell me what thats about. why demoralise and de-value what you have if you actually believe you have something worth having.


in that case, yes you have met some 'crazies'. They treated you badly, while you expected to be treated more respectfully as their submissive.

quote:

but i do get frustrated at times when a persons personality is pushed to the side and some perceived domly attitude is adopted instead.
the men you were with? I don't understand that one.

You cannot and should not tolerate a crazy dude. I wouldn't tolerate it for an instant, just impatient like that.

quote:

the paranoia is about me, im paranoid about me - making the wrong choice for me and even not making the right choice because ive got so cautious and self protective.
I think you have the right to be a lil paranoid, after what you have been through. I am cautious and self-protective, I have my long-term fucks that are very reliable but new ones? look around, lol have you seen what is out there? lol The chances of getting an uncrazy sob bastard are slim for me. Not to mention, the baggage, I cannot tolerate baggage. uhhg. So, k, I'm in your boat, I'm paranoid too. But if being paranoid is avoiding an idiot, yay for paranoia LOL

I think ya gonna be ok. Maybe you have burn-out? Too much of 'this' on your mind lately (via reading about bdsm, talking about bdsm)? Who knows. Don't forget also, no matter what you read or see, the priority is to take care of yourself, and if what you are percieving to be 'unhealthy' for others upsets you so much that you are no in a confused state, then that is where 'this' crosses the line. Whether it be a man upsetting you, or the subjects you read about, I'd say dump that man, don't read about the subject for a lil bit. It will pass and you will wonder in a week or so why you even considered yourself 'paranoid'.



_____________________________

It hurts.....that you call me a masochist


(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 40
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