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Identifying as a Dominant - 4/1/2006 11:46:51 AM   
enthralled


Posts: 249
Joined: 9/13/2005
From: Nashville, Tn
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I was wondering what the general opinion is on having a dominant personality vs being a Dominant?
I've been involved in the BDSM-D/s-M/s community for over 10 years. So many times I hear people who are beginning to explore this 'lifestyle' say, "I've been Dominant all my life.", and call themselves a 'Dom' solely based on this fact without no real experiences or mentoring.  I  bite my tongue to keep from asking, "But . . . does that make you a Dom?"
It's only my opinion, and though I know there are so many individualized facets to this lifestyle, I just don't believe that having a dominant personality = being a 'Dom/Master'.   I have a very dominant personality myself but that doesnt make me emotionally or mentally equipped to take on the responsibility of being a Dom/Master.
In the Leather Community, One's title must be earned. I know someone who will be receiving a capping ceremony next month at SELF and only then will He be officially recognized as a 'Master'.
Again, this only only my opinion based on what my personal preferences/experiences are. What's your opinion?

Respectfully,
~enthralled

_____________________________

A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes another's.-Jean Paul Richter
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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/1/2006 12:00:27 PM   
MasterFireMaam


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From: Charleston, WV
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My two slaves have dominant personalities. Neither identifies as a Master. I also know many Masters who are masochists. What we DO does not define WHO we ARE.

Fire


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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/1/2006 12:23:14 PM   
starymists


Posts: 139
Joined: 2/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: enthralled
I was wondering what the general opinion is on having a dominant personality vs being a Dominant?
I've been involved in the BDSM-D/s-M/s community for over 10 years. So many times I hear people who are beginning to explore this 'lifestyle' say, "I've been Dominant all my life.", and call themselves a 'Dom' solely based on this fact without no real experiences or mentoring.  I  bite my tongue to keep from asking, "But . . . does that make you a Dom?"
It's only my opinion, and though I know there are so many individualized facets to this lifestyle, I just don't believe that having a dominant personality = being a 'Dom/Master'.   I have a very dominant personality myself but that doesnt make me emotionally or mentally equipped to take on the responsibility of being a Dom/Master.
In the Leather Community, One's title must be earned. I know someone who will be receiving a capping ceremony next month at SELF and only then will He be officially recognized as a 'Master'.
Again, this only only my opinion based on what my personal preferences/experiences are. What's your opinion?


For myself and in my experience, I have to agree with MasterFireMaam. You're activities do not make who you are. That being said, I think the ability to Dominate someone comes more naturally to some than others. I have known Doms who are brand new to the lifestyle who have a lot of skill in Dominantion. I, myself, have been in the lifestyle for 16 years, give or take...but I've ~always~ been a submissive. Point being that coming 'into' the lifestyle does not negate experiences in other realms of being. I know many 'natural' Dominants who have, in fact been in domestic discipline relationships, power exchange relationships, 1950's households without knowing there was a 'lifestyle' that went along with their natural ways of being. I also know some Dominants who use the 'natural' descriptor to get around having no experience in the lifestyle.
 
Beyond the Leather community, there are other styles of BDSM. For myself and my Dominant, we both were trained 'Old School'. We both have mentors *still*. We both have been trained in the protocols of the lifestyle. We've both been trained in techniques of so-called play and we have both worked to improve our knowledge of the lifestyle that we live, the psychology behind the lifestyle and we constantly strive to improve our skills within the lifestyle.
 
Some pockets of D/s, including the Leather Community and Old School Community have protocols and proceedures that tend to get followed. But I think we need to guard against 'elitism'. Just because I had to read, study, journal, practice, know protocol inside and out and get the blessing of both my Mentors and my trainer before I was allowed to serve doesn't mean that someone who chooses a different path isn't entitled to the titles of the lifestyle. Nor does their use of the titles diminish the use of those titles by others. The terminology of the lifestyle is highly fluid. Now, maybe it wasn't that way in the 'old' days, and they might not be in those forms of BDSM that hold to the 'old' day ways of doing things, but regardless, the this flexibility has come into and become part of the lifestyle that we live.
 
In other words, I don't judge others based on what they say they are or are not. I look at their actions...their conduct and I make my own determination. I don't require anyone else to live the way I choose to live...nor do I allow someone else to place their expectations of what BDSM is on me. I don't force anyone else to go the route I went, nor will I allow someone else to force me off my chosen path.
 
I do agree that it takes more than just saying you are a Dominant or submissive to actually live into those states of being...but I also don't believe I know the ~only~ way to get the skills required to live into those states of being :)

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/1/2006 12:34:12 PM   
enthralled


Posts: 249
Joined: 9/13/2005
From: Nashville, Tn
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starymists wrote:
 
"I know many 'natural' Dominants who have, in fact been in domestic discipline relationships, power exchange relationships, 1950's households without knowing there was a 'lifestyle' that went along with their natural ways of being. I also know some Dominants who use the 'natural' descriptor to get around having no experience in the lifestyle"
 
I do completely agree with you here. I have seen couples that could totally be perceived as a 'D/s' or 'M/s' couple, yet have no idea what either of those terms mean!
Thanks for pointing that out! ~smile~
 
Respectfully,
~enthralled

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/1/2006 12:55:58 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: enthralled

I was wondering what the general opinion is on having a dominant personality vs being a Dominant?
I've been involved in the BDSM-D/s-M/s community for over 10 years. So many times I hear people who are beginning to explore this 'lifestyle' say, "I've been Dominant all my life.", and call themselves a 'Dom' solely based on this fact without no real experiences or mentoring.  I  bite my tongue to keep from asking, "But . . . does that make you a Dom?"
It's only my opinion, and though I know there are so many individualized facets to this lifestyle, I just don't believe that having a dominant personality = being a 'Dom/Master'.   I have a very dominant personality myself but that doesnt make me emotionally or mentally equipped to take on the responsibility of being a Dom/Master.
In the Leather Community, One's title must be earned. I know someone who will be receiving a capping ceremony next month at SELF and only then will He be officially recognized as a 'Master'.
Again, this only only my opinion based on what my personal preferences/experiences are. What's your opinion?

Respectfully,
~enthralled
 

I have a few different thoughts.  I think that if someone has a dominant personality and is a dominant, they won’t need or care about official community recognition and need to get capped, titled, or earn leather.  I know that the concept of earning leather and earning titles is a tradition that’s been around for a while in the leather community, and I think it’s a nice one (heck my owner got one from the leather club he’s been involved with for some time).  But I don’t think that is what makes someone a master (or whatever title they are given).  

I don’t think that dominant personality = BDSM dominant, but I do think it’s a nice mix to have together.  But I think alpha/dominant personality is one of those things becoming very popular, but I think that percentage wise few people are actually a dominant personality.  To me a dominant/alpha personality is the person who would be in charge after a couple of weeks of being on an island with ten people.  I think a lot of times our personality shifts depending on who we are with and so sometimes we have a dominant or submissive personality.  I think the type of personality who is always dominant with people is pretty rare (if you threw them in any situation they’d be the one telling people what to do) and I’m not convinced that having a dominant personality is an ideal state, but somehow it seems to have been made into one as of late.  

To me what makes someone a master is that they own someone.  Personally I would probably only consider someone an owner if they actually owned someone for an appreciable amount of time (years).  I do think there is something horribly awkward and dorky about calling oneself a slave or master (i.e. if your name is Betty, calling oneself Slave Betty), and I can’t for the life of me understand why its becoming so popular.  But either way even if I consider someone an owner they wouldn’t get any special treatment because of that, to me they are still a peer and get treated just like everyone.  

C~

< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 4/1/2006 12:56:44 PM >


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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/1/2006 1:07:40 PM   
LadySeraphina


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Starymists, I have to respect your attitude and approach.  For me, I 'fell' into D/s almost by accident, though I was subconciously searching for it for a very long time.  I started out as a switch, and gradually reached a point where, although I enjoy being Topped once in a while, I am exclusively Dominant.  I like to read and research, and to improve my skills.  If you have any reading list suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them.

Be well.
Lady S

< Message edited by LadySeraphina -- 4/1/2006 1:08:10 PM >

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/2/2006 10:07:38 AM   
ImpGrrl


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First, I agree with the below 150% - enough to quote it in its entirety.

But I had to respond specifically to one thing:

quote:

I do think there is something horribly awkward and dorky about calling oneself a slave or master (i.e. if your name is Betty, calling oneself Slave Betty), and I can’t for the life of me understand why its becoming so popular.


It's popular because that means they're "part of the club" - and despite the "rebel" image people who do BDSM like to cultivate, most people are so desperate to belong, they'll make up silly rules so that they can belong to this club. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs
I have a few different thoughts.  I think that if someone has a dominant personality and is a dominant, they won’t need or care about official community recognition and need to get capped, titled, or earn leather.  I know that the concept of earning leather and earning titles is a tradition that’s been around for a while in the leather community, and I think it’s a nice one (heck my owner got one from the leather club he’s been involved with for some time).  But I don’t think that is what makes someone a master (or whatever title they are given).  

I don’t think that dominant personality = BDSM dominant, but I do think it’s a nice mix to have together.  But I think alpha/dominant personality is one of those things becoming very popular, but I think that percentage wise few people are actually a dominant personality.  To me a dominant/alpha personality is the person who would be in charge after a couple of weeks of being on an island with ten people.  I think a lot of times our personality shifts depending on who we are with and so sometimes we have a dominant or submissive personality.  I think the type of personality who is always dominant with people is pretty rare (if you threw them in any situation they’d be the one telling people what to do) and I’m not convinced that having a dominant personality is an ideal state, but somehow it seems to have been made into one as of late.  

To me what makes someone a master is that they own someone.  Personally I would probably only consider someone an owner if they actually owned someone for an appreciable amount of time (years).  I do think there is something horribly awkward and dorky about calling oneself a slave or master (i.e. if your name is Betty, calling oneself Slave Betty), and I can’t for the life of me understand why its becoming so popular.  But either way even if I consider someone an owner they wouldn’t get any special treatment because of that, to me they are still a peer and get treated just like everyone.  

C~

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/2/2006 4:47:12 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: enthralled

I was wondering what the general opinion is on having a dominant personality vs being a Dominant?
I've been involved in the BDSM-D/s-M/s community for over 10 years. So many times I hear people who are beginning to explore this 'lifestyle' say, "I've been Dominant all my life.", and call themselves a 'Dom' solely based on this fact without no real experiences or mentoring. I bite my tongue to keep from asking, "But . . . does that make you a Dom?"
It's only my opinion, and though I know there are so many individualized facets to this lifestyle, I just don't believe that having a dominant personality = being a 'Dom/Master'. I have a very dominant personality myself but that doesnt make me emotionally or mentally equipped to take on the responsibility of being a Dom/Master.
In the Leather Community, One's title must be earned. I know someone who will be receiving a capping ceremony next month at SELF and only then will He be officially recognized as a 'Master'.
Again, this only only my opinion based on what my personal preferences/experiences are. What's your opinion?

Respectfully,
~enthralled


I believe personality and role are two different things.

Personality is probably rather obvious.

Role, in my opinion, requires a partner or a group -- hard to have a role to what, the air, afterall.

Personality and Role can match but they need not do so. A person might need to fulfill a certain role at work that doesn't match their personality for instance. Other people might see BDSM roles as a break from their daily routines. For others they have various facets of personality that get played out in different roles.

I'd say Top, Dom, and Master/Mistress or Owner are all Role terms -- with various degrees of responsibility and dynamics. One need not be good at all of them. Think about it, you can have someone who is good spouse but a bad parent; a good student but poor teacher; etc.

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And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/4/2006 6:05:21 PM   
dogobedience


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 I agree with you, I am alpha and dom , however it is very rare to be so in both your professional life and this lifestyle.An ex slave of mine( who I meet years ago HERE) said " he looks dom , soo agressive, demanding, etc" but just because you an agressive side does NOT MAKE YOU DOM IN THIS WORLD WITHOUT TRAINING!!!!!
Prior to the internet, I thought i was very good at owning girls, they had few complaints. When I finally got to meet and become involved  with others in groups did I see where I was good or could do it a better way( good and bad is relative though).
To assume that you are DOM without training is like assuming you can fly a plane, since you can drive a car fast........good luck and please crash and die soon!!!!!!! 

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/4/2006 6:21:39 PM   
SweetEscravo


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Having a dominant personality definitly does not make you a dom.  I for one, as a submissive, have a dominant personality in my professional life...I take charge, I don't take crap from people, and I get everything done.  However, this definitly does not make me a "dom" because I have no interest in taking my professional personality into my personal life.  Having dominant or commanding tendencies doesn't make someone a dom/me.  Rather, IMO, it seems that many doms have these personalities, but just because you have this personality doesn't make you dom/me. 

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/4/2006 6:31:38 PM   
cocoon


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I did not read the entire string.. however, I can say that I have experienced just this in my own life.  I am married to someone who has a dominant personality.  In fact, that is what I was attracted to.. or so i thought.  I can attest to the idea that just b/c One has a dominant personality..it definitley does not make the Dom..  training or no..
please be well,
just a girl's thoughts.

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/4/2006 11:05:40 PM   
EvilGeoff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: enthralled
....
In the Leather Community, One's title must be earned. I know someone who will be receiving a capping ceremony next month at SELF and only then will He be officially recognized as a 'Master'...


*smiles softly*
I have to ask, which leather community?  There are a LOT of them.  Most of them have absolutely no steps to take, no training to complete, no recognition of achievement or excellence, let alone mere competence to be a "Master" or "Mistress".  Most don't even require that you hang around for a specific period of time.  You walk in and announce you're a dominant and if you have someone in collar, bang!  You are a Master, capped nick and all.

And after capping, this individual will be "officially recognized" by who?  By the members of his own community, who are aware of the training, process, services he's performed, etc, I'm sure.  But outside of his local community that recognition will probably be nothing more than common courtesy unless he becomes regionally active, or a title holder or both. 

Personally I applaud the tradition of "earning your leather", I think it is a process that lends a great deal of credibility to someone wanting to claim the title of "Master" or "Mistress".  Just keep in mind that standards will vary from community to community, even within different groups in the same city or region.  It would be nice to have some kind of standardized testing, some demonstrable level of commitment, of character, of service, of leadership, of skills to be called a Master or Mistress (or slave or submissive for that matter), but until then.... *grins & shrugs*  It's every Dominant for him/herself!

YIK,
- Geoff

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/5/2006 6:05:46 AM   
FirmhandKY


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I like starymists response the best, because it most closely mirrors my own beliefs, but I want to respond to some of the concepts by the other posters.

To me, the first, primary, and main part of being a "dominant" is self-knowledge and confidence in your own abilities, desires, and limits.  Can you be aggressive and not dominant?  Heck yeah.  Aggressiveness by itself is - to me - usually a sign that the person is NOT dominant, because aggressiveness often masks insecurity.  Conversely, I believe you can be dominant, but not aggressive in the normal sense of the word.

ALWAYS taking charge of people and the situation?  Sometimes that seems to be more of a narcissistic problem or a desire for power and control that comes - again - from insecurity.

'True" dominance is often difficult to see in a normal environment, simply because there are enough people with enough insecurities that they will try anything to manipulate the environment to their advantage.  Intimidation is one of the most often techniques, and requires a strong dose of "dominance" to achieve.

I'm ex-military, and I can tell you, being "called" something - isn't "being" the thing.  Being called a leader, doesn't make you a leader.  The military has some great training programs for leaders, and it helps many people.  Some people have all the skills the first day they show up.  Other's have the basic understanding, but benefit from techniques, knowledge and skills they are taught.  Others go through years of training, exposure and experience and couldn't lead a patrol out of a wet paperbag.

And one thing that I've noticed is that sometimes the very people who seek out the most badges, the most qualifications - in other words, the most external reinforcements to their "leadership", are the least comfortable and confident in that role.

Don't take this as any kind of attack on training programs or the abilities of any individual or group in this world, because I am talking in general terms.

The two most accurate measurement of determining how "dominant" someone is can come through one of two methods:

1.  Long observation and interaction with the individual.
2.  Seeing their reactions in a crisis, or under some sort of pressure.

Anything else - is just an educated guess.  Accurate, perhaps, but still a guess.

Another thing that bothers me at times is the seeming confusion between bdsm techniques and "domination".  How many subs here top, occasionally?  Does that make them "Doms"? 

Learning techniques may give a Dom additional avenues of play, and a wider range of sensual control over a sub - but technique (in my opinion) isn't domination.  If a sub is looking for a dominant who has a certain skill set, and doesn't wish to go through the learning process with the Dom, she will often say "I want a  Dom with x years of experience."  In my opinion, this confuses technical skills with what dominantion actually is.  Doesn't mean it isn't a valid criteria, but it's a confusion of the issue.

Oh, I've got plenty more, but I'll hold it for another time.

FH


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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/5/2006 9:23:08 AM   
BitchCat


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What a beautifully valid topic for me, as about 4 people (2 subs and 2 dommes) I've known believe that I've got 'natural' domme finesse yet I've only 'toyed' with the prospect until a few days ago. I'm very much a newbie and don't want to come off as being some hotheaded brat with a chip on my shoulder, but someone who wants to fill a need in my and others' lives... I'd like to think I could be the domme I and others envision, but then I think back to the man who unbeknownst to him brought out the whimpering sub in me. (And to make matters worse, my bitch teased me about it - don't worry, he'll be properly punished) So that, combined with the research I've done, has helped me to understand that just like most things in life, kink isn't THAT black and white in the first place.

Has anyone read the sociologist Bordieu's essays about cultural capital? It talks about the use of language as a form of power within a culture/subculture. I got into a heated debate with fans of yaoi about elitism and jargon, so I certainly think that these issues are valid and deserve to be pondered.

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/5/2006 9:39:16 AM   
zoviet


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A friend once told me that dominant people are most often unusually empathetic.  It is as if our actions are sonar pings that we send out, and only by feeling the way they resonate when they come in contact with someone do we learn what we need to do to move forward.

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/5/2006 9:47:07 AM   
sawneysbeen


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Do we not feel that we analyse too much... just get on with it... some Doms have empathy but then some don't, in much the same way that some limp and some don't!!

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/5/2006 10:16:45 AM   
crouchingtigress


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It is the slave/sub debate in a different form .
 
The problem comes from having cannibalized terms in the English language that for hundreds of years, already have had established definitions.
 
Because the D/s community uses them now does not give them exclusive domain over them.
 
I am of the opinion that had new words been created at the outset to describe levels of play and types of players we would not have spent the hundreds and thousands of hours in chat rooms, munches, forums and dungeons that we all have spent, on this silly topic.

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/5/2006 10:36:58 AM   
Driver1961


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He enters dips His lid to all respectfully.

In Dom/sub my understanding is that the Dom has the 'understanding' of the 'dynamic' whether they have the experience in BDSM or not.   I resisted calling myself Dom 'for years' cos I'd only just started. I have 'Presence' and 'strength' and yes because of this encountered and dealt with (successfully i might add) experiences that many 'so called' Dom/mes of years are/were unable to.  Here I am with only less than 8 months 'club' exposure and being trained to be a Master (with personal approach from a Master of extremely high repute) Any-one can call themselves a Master in BDSM but can anyone call themselves a Doctor in the medical world?

When I am my 'Wild's' Master- I will be akin to a Doctor- trained, experienced in most aspects of BDSM - whether I laud it or hide it- I will be Master yet still carry the same essence of 'Presence and Strength' that I have carried and carry today.

This so - called Lifestyle of Dominence has opened doors to me with other Real time pple that others with 'Years of Experience' have yet to approach.  

It is up to others how they percieve your actions as to what your credibility is with Lifestyle.

P.S.  I read the bible so you can call me Reverend Sir!

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/5/2006 10:42:25 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sawneysbeen

Do we not feel that we analyse too much... just get on with it... some Doms have empathy but then some don't, in much the same way that some limp and some don't!!


Why ... no.

Perhaps you have done all the analyzing you need to in your life, and about this subject, but I think having the deepest understanding of things allows you to better be the person (dom) you can be.  "Stop analyzing" almost seems to me to mean "stop learning."

Certainly, there is a point to act, rather than think ... but not everyone is AT that point.  I think after you have analyzed it enough, and then you set strictures on yourself as a dom, then you are free - and should - "let yourself go" within those bounds that you've set on yourself.

FH

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RE: Identifying as a Dominant - 4/5/2006 10:55:11 AM   
starymists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: sawneysbeen

Do we not feel that we analyse too much... just get on with it... some Doms have empathy but then some don't, in much the same way that some limp and some don't!!


Why ... no.

Perhaps you have done all the analyzing you need to in your life, and about this subject, but I think having the deepest understanding of things allows you to better be the person (dom) you can be.  "Stop analyzing" almost seems to me to mean "stop learning."

Certainly, there is a point to act, rather than think ... but not everyone is AT that point.  I think after you have analyzed it enough, and then you set strictures on yourself as a dom, then you are free - and should - "let yourself go" within those bounds that you've set on yourself.


I would also have to agree. Being in 'charge' of someone else should include periods of self-examination. My Dominant has been in the lifestyle long than I have, and he still looks at his conduct, his motives, his interactions, to ensure that he is living up to ~his~ side of the agreement that we have. It is uncomfortable for a lot of submissives to have to call a Dominant out on something...much better to have the Dominant look at his own stuff and make corrections where they are needed, seek additional information when needed, talk to his/her mentors when needed. I don't think we ever 'arrive' to a place of perfection as either a Dom or sub where we are perfect people that never make mistakes, and as long as we make mistakes, we need to be open to self-analyzing, at least in Tessa's part of the world.

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