Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Navy Seals trial


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Navy Seals trial Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/21/2010 5:47:53 PM   
VideoAdminZeta


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/26/2008
From: the darkest recesses of your twisted minds
Status: offline 		Navy Seals, military vs. civilian laws, freedom of troop operation vs. war crimes treaties.  These are examples of something called "on topic."

"Fuck you, you ugly motherfucker who has no friends," is an example of something called "not on topic."

Let's get back on topic, please.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/21/2010 6:10:34 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Dammit Zeta,there goes all my meterial!
Now in an effort to avoid a gold bordered letter,allow me to ask this question on topic.
Is the Seal in question to be afforded all of the protections he is entitled to under the UCMJ.....allow me to field my own question ....of course he is.
So than what is the problem...he is not being "railroaded" nor being made a "scapegoat" he is being prosecuted for the charges of which he has been charged....he has competent representation and all that...it's called justice,albeit the military version...but justice all the same.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to VideoAdminZeta)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/21/2010 6:27:38 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Oh sheesh Mike!  Go read Starship Troopers, already!

quote:

No thanks,I'm actually quite selective in what I choose to read.....hell if I was going to read bad sci fi I might as well read the Gor books....lol.


Starship troopers is not bad sci fi...it won the Hugo award.  If you want a really good read you might look into Heinlein's work.
His early stuff was written for Boy's Life Magazine but starting with "Stranger in a Strange Land" (another Hugo award winner)they have been written for the adult audience.
I think you would particularly his use of the medium of science fiction to make political commentary.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 3/21/2010 6:32:27 PM >

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/21/2010 6:31:21 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Oh sheesh Mike!  Go read Starship Troopers, already!

quote:

No thanks,I'm actually quite selective in what I choose to read.....hell if I was going to read bad sci fi I might as well read the Gor books....lol.


Starship troopers is not bad sci fi...it won the Hugo award.  If you want a really good read you might look into Hinelien's work.
His early stuff was written for Boy's Life Magazine but starting with "Stranger in a Strange Land" (another Hugo award winner)they have been written for the adult audience.
I think you would particularly use of the medium of science fiction to make political commentary.




I figured that he had see that atrocity of a movie based on the same title. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/21/2010 6:34:38 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		It was pretty bad...hard to even equate it to the book.  Sometimes hollywood just fails.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/21/2010 6:34:55 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Did you miss the trials against Marines that happened back in the Bush administration?  The ones where everyone was killed, but first a 14 year old was raped, murdered, then set on fire?

They weren't the only trials; trials have been held for a variety of service members since about 2004.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Whats antiAmerican are these Democrat witch hunts against our elite forces who are trying to fight a war.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Right  you are Sanity,as long as their is a no good Democrat sitting in the Oval Ofiice reecting everything else you believe in...is well duh a no brainer!
What a fucking American you are


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/21/2010 6:49:20 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

It was pretty bad...hard to even equate it to the book.  Sometimes hollywood just fails.


Did you know that Paul Verhoeven did not even READ the novel?  No wonder the movie sucked.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/21/2010 7:02:01 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Thompson,so as not to derail....you have mail.
My apologies AdminZeta for the interruption.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/21/2010 9:50:10 PM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Well, it seems the Navy Seals who are being charged for hurting a prisoner are going to have the trail in Iraq.  The injuries where a fat lip and bruises from  allegedly  being pushed down.  The charges have been dropped against all but 1 Seal, and if they are convicted it will be a dishonorable discharge and prison time. 

This story is close to me because I have a relative who is a Navy Seal.  The person who was captured if you are not aware was the master mind behind the 4 contractors who where kidnapped, killed burned and one of the bodies was hung from a bridge and pulled apart.

Things have changed in war, now when units go out, there is an observer who watches and if they feel the US units did anything wrong they can have charges filed against people in the unit.  To bad the same does not apply to the people trying to kill everyone.

and people wonder why no one wants to join the military anymore

http://blog.taragana.com/politics/2010/01/11/judge-moves-military-trial-of-navy-seal-accused-of-mistreating-detainee-to-us-base-in-iraq-12560/




If all they've done is their job ... under orders ... then they're in need of support. War is fuck ugly.... it's about time the "conductors" took responsibility for their "theatre" and acknowloged the "lead actors"

That's all ... fuck off.

Jus' coz you'r 'merkin ... doesn't mean we can't all see what we're looking at ...

Pirate

Pirate

(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/21/2010 9:53:48 PM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Sometimes hollywood just fails.


If we're talking "fact" ... hollywood ALWAYS fails.

I'm a good butcher ... not many people would enjoy watching me work ...

Pirate

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/22/2010 6:05:31 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Actually the rules of engagement  where changed during the Bush time because of all the abuses going on, you know the prison thing and others.  So Rice cut a deal with the iraq gov that would not take effect until Bush was out of office, including no longer being able to run night operations on the ground and observers going out with elite troops to make sure no laws are broken (putting every person at risk because the observer is not trained in Seal operations)

you blame Obama, however, 3 out of the 4 people charged had their charges dropped and the forth choose to take the case to court to showcase how political decisions made years ago are putting our troops in harms way.

So you blame Obama, for the 4 being charged, do you give Obama credit for the 3 that had the charges dropped?



< Message edited by housesub4you -- 3/22/2010 6:10:30 AM >

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/22/2010 6:28:36 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

however, 3 out of the 4 people charged had their charges dropped and the forth choose to take the case to court


Thats inaccurate, or perhaps just poorly worded. All four defendants chose not to accept non-judicial punishment. The military dropped charges against three,and decided to court-martial the fourth. Unless you've seen something I haven't (evidence for the prosecution) it's going to be such a short court-martial that it will underscore the political nature of the decision to prosecute (already underscored by a lack of discovery, etc).

It was I who previously alluded to the fact that Obama changed the rules of engagement in Afghanistan.

(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/22/2010 6:40:56 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Starship troopers is not bad sci fi...it won the Hugo award.  If you want a really good read you might look into Heinlein's work.
His early stuff was written for Boy's Life Magazine but starting with "Stranger in a Strange Land" (another Hugo award winner)they have been written for the adult audience.
I think you would particularly his use of the medium of science fiction to make political commentary.

It depends who you ask. A lot of SF pundits thought it was very bad sci fi indeed (Brian Aldiss, who unlike Robert Heinlein actually had served in his country's army during the second world war gave it a particularly vicious kicking and Joe Haldeman obviously wasn't a fan). As for the Hugo award, that's been given to an awful lot of terrible nonsense over the years, sadly.

The kiddilit thing you have wrong as well: he started off writing for the adult SF audience in the pulps. He did have a contract to write children's SF novels for one publisher, but he'd published book length SF before that, and Starship Troopers was actually the book that led to his arrangement with the children's publisher ending. (Though I think he published a couple more later.) That one was published about ten years before Stranger In A Strange Land.

Finally, Heinlein's use of SF to make a political commentary was deeply hamfisted and did his SF no favours at all. His best work is his short stories, where he didn't have the space to let a mouthpiece character blather at great and tedious length about how evil taxation is and why people who haven't served in the military shouldn't be allowed to vote.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/22/2010 7:07:23 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline 		I thought the movie was cool, but then I read somewhere that the point was to make us feel sympathy for the bugs instead of for the soldiers?

That guy was cute and ten times cuter in uniform.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/22/2010 7:19:51 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

It depends who you ask. A lot of SF pundits thought it was very bad sci fi indeed (Brian Aldiss, who unlike Robert Heinlein actually had served in his country's army during the second world war gave it a particularly vicious kicking and Joe Haldeman obviously wasn't a fan). As for the Hugo award, that's been given to an awful lot of terrible nonsense over the years, sadly.

For one, there were not a lot of sci fi pundits at the time.  For two, yes they did discharge him from the Navy because he had TB.  Funny how that works.

quote:

The kiddilit thing you have wrong as well: he started off writing for the adult SF audience in the pulps. He did have a contract to write children's SF novels for one publisher, but he'd published book length SF before that,

No, his first published novel was Rocket Ship Galieo.  I think that Time-Line was his first short published. 
quote:

 and Starship Troopers was actually the book that led to his arrangement with the children's publisher ending. (Though I think he published a couple more later.) That one was published about ten years before Stranger In A Strange Land.
There was a two year difference. 
quote:

Finally, Heinlein's use of SF to make a political commentary was deeply hamfisted and did his SF no favours at all.

You have got to be kidding me. 
quote:

His best work is his short stories, where he didn't have the space to let a mouthpiece character blather at great and tedious length about how evil taxation is and why people who haven't served in the military shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Heinlein was an active socialist at one point.  He did not think taxation was evil.  And no where does he posit that you should only vote if you served in the military.  (He does suggest having to solve a quadratic equation before voting in one non-fiction work.) 

And different people disagree on what his best works were. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/22/2010 9:32:41 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		I'm a good butcher ... not many people would enjoy watching me work ...

An exellent butcher is called a surgeon...I enjoy watching any journeyman apply their craft.

(in reply to JonnieBoy)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/22/2010 9:37:49 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

And different people disagree on what his best works were.


I vote for Time Enough for Love.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/22/2010 9:44:26 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Starship troopers is not bad sci fi...it won the Hugo award.  If you want a really good read you might look into Heinlein's work.
His early stuff was written for Boy's Life Magazine but starting with "Stranger in a Strange Land" (another Hugo award winner)they have been written for the adult audience.
I think you would particularly his use of the medium of science fiction to make political commentary.

It depends who you ask. A lot of SF pundits thought it was very bad sci fi indeed (Brian Aldiss, who unlike Robert Heinlein actually had served in his country's army during the second world war gave it a particularly vicious kicking and Joe Haldeman obviously wasn't a fan).

Heinlein was a graduate of the naval acdemy and served on active duty until he was discharged for having TB.  During WW II he was called back into the navy and did extensive "black ops"  He is a graduate of the War College and has authored numerous papers for the War College.



As for the Hugo award, that's been given to an awful lot of terrible nonsense over the years, sadly.

Really...could you name them and tell us what percentage that would represent out of all that have been awarded and then please compare and contrast that with the pulitzer.

The kiddilit thing you have wrong as well: he started off writing for the adult SF audience in the pulps. He did have a contract to write children's SF novels for one publisher, but he'd published book length SF before that, and Starship Troopers was actually the book that led to his arrangement with the children's publisher ending. (Though I think he published a couple more later.) That one was published about ten years before Stranger In A Strange Land.

Finally, Heinlein's use of SF to make a political commentary was deeply hamfisted and did his SF no favours at all. His best work is his short stories, where he didn't have the space to let a mouthpiece character blather at great and tedious length about how evil taxation is and why people who haven't served in the military shouldn't be allowed to vote.


Your memories of his work differ from mine.  Perhaps you might want to revisit some of his work.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/22/2010 9:47:27 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

I thought the movie was cool, but then I read somewhere that the point was to make us feel sympathy for the bugs instead of for the soldiers?

That guy was cute and ten times cuter in uniform.


In Heinlein's book the bugs were bad and the soldiers good.
In Camerons "Avitar" the soldiers are bad and the blue people are good.

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Navy Seals trial - 3/22/2010 9:49:37 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

And different people disagree on what his best works were.


I vote for Time Enough for Love.


In his fiction I like "Friday" but his last work about his trip to Russia was quite informative.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Navy Seals trial Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.090