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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

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ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

Personally, I think the entire issue of abortion is temporary, and secondary:

1. Premature babies are viable earlier and earlier, as we come up with better and better "incubator" technology.
2. In vitro fertilization can be done later and later, as we come up with better and better ways of keeping embryos viable for transplant.
3. Cryopreservation of embryos can be done at later and later stages, as we come up with better and better cryotechnology.

The problem is going to solve itself soon enough. Eventually, there will be no need for abortions - if you don't want a baby and you manage to get pregnant despite whatever contraceptive technology you were using, we can simply surgically remove the embryo at whatever stage it's at when we discover the pregnancy, freeze it, and wait until someone who does want a child agrees to take care of it.

Problem solved.

Well one would think that given that sort of advancements in medical technology.....they might have come across with a foolproof and harmless contraception method?
I mean as long as we are moving forward lets do so in the right direction....your medical advancements would in no way address the issue of whether or not a given person wants their off-spring sitting around waiting for someone else to want a child.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm hoping what you think is a good way to spend our time and energies is a better contraceptive...and not Ialdabaoth's scary futuristic baby bank....that's just creepy.

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ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

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You're right, it is a very imperfect analogy

I admitted it was.

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I didn't do anything to cause the child to need the kidney.

What if it was your child, given up for adoption at birth years before, or kept by the mother against your wishes? Should you be forced to cough up a kidney against your will, then? General question, btw, which I am VERY interested in your answer to.

That said, you most likely weren't involved in the conception of a fetus that might be aborted either, but you still judge it as wrong and want to impose your morals on something that has nothing to do with you personally.

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It is almost for certain that the woman did not use protection, or insist the man do so (which she shouldn't need to do). Yes, accidents happen, but generally, no protection was used. So, am I wanting her "punished" for having sex? Nope. But there are consequences to our actions. It is tragic, it is sad.

How is it "almost certain"? Do women submbitting pics/dna from broken condoms get a break? Apparently not. She's screwed.

As for the whole idea of forcing women to have babies they don't want, that worked pretty well before Roe vs Wade, didn't it? Unless you advocate locking them up, the ones who want to abort will not capitulate to your morals, and many will die. But hey, you didn't get them pregnant.

Apologies for the snark, but this issue just pisses me off to no end. 

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ORIGINAL: barelynangel

juliaoceania, your deal about poverty is one of the most stupidest arguments around. This thread is about abortion -- not finding a cure for every problem in the WORLD. And i hope if abortion ever becomes illegal you are prosecuted because it doesn't sound like its the WOMAN you care about at all but your agenda. To me people like you are what is dangerous when you are willing to risk the lives of these women if its illegal abortion just to prove your agenda. I can hear you now, "ohh come on i can get you an abortion, aren't sure you really want one, ohh come on get one its your body you have a right to have an abortion, you really do want one so you can prove you have a right to do with your body what you will." Yeah -- dangerous.

I doubt you even understand what the concept of NO RIGHTS is, and it seems you are willing to take RIGHTS away from the fathers in order to justify abortions. Even now you bring in deadbeat dad concepts when you believe its ONLY THE RIGHT of the MOTHER TO DETERMINE if she is having an abortion. Funny, why should a Man have to pay for a child he didn't want and the mother decides she does? You are a hypocrit because you want to give the woman a choice and her choice alone but stamp your foot and say hey the responsibility is the fathers because the father doesn't get a choice.

SECONDLY, have you even bothered TO READ MOST OF THE REPLIES IN THIS THREAD? VERY FEW are anti-choice. But i guess for you to actually acknowledge that you would lose a lot of your argument because MANY of the posts are pro-choice but they are also based upon conditions. But that wouldn't suit your argument.

You have no concept of what right to privacy is as you have been expounding upon, as i said your right to privacy. To me, its people like you who are way over dramatic who cause this lack of cooperation when coming to a decision on abortion. The fact you call this an anti-choice thread when MOST OF THE POSTS are about pro-choice -- shows how irrational you are.

As i stated earlier -- you are off on what you believe the Constitution states. It gives you a right to privacy as to your records but it does not give the right to do whatever you want with your own body. And secondly, the product of sex the woman carries is NOT only hers -- it is the 50/50 combination of two people. It utterly amazes me you are sitting here whining about deadbeat dads but don't believe the Man has a right to say whether the fetus should be aborted or not. Seems you want to PUNISH MEN, not fight for rights of women.

And finally, abortion as it stands right now is legal in most cases, the woman doesn't have to even consult the father and yet all of your social issues still exist EVEN MORE SO than it did prior to abortions being legal.


angel

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As i stated earlier -- you are off on what you believe the Constitution states. It gives you a right to privacy as to your records but it does not give the right to do whatever you want with your own body. And secondly, the product of sex the woman carries is NOT only hers -- it is the 50/50 combination of two people. It utterly amazes me you are sitting here whining about deadbeat dads but don't believe the Man has a right to say whether the fetus should be aborted or not. Seems you want to PUNISH MEN, not fight for rights of women.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm hoping what you think is a good way to spend our time and energies is a better contraceptive...and not Ialdabaoth's scary futuristic baby bank....that's just creepy.

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ORIGINAL: Elisabella

-FR-

You know, I was just thinking about this thread, and it amazes me that both sides are saying the same thing.

Government doesn't have the right to prevent me from having an abortion.

Government doesn't have the right to force me to pay tax that supports abortion.

Now I know there's not a distinct line drawn, there are people who feel that abortion should be legal but not taxpayer funded, but in general that's how it goes. Both sides are all about "government stay out of it" unless government is supporting their side, in which case they're all for government being involved.

It's kinda mind blowing, really.

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ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19


A man should not have the right to say that a fetus should or shouldnt be aborted. What he SHOULD have done is taken half the responsibility of birth control. Until he does this he has no rights over the body carrying the fetus. And just because he doesnt want the resulting baby and didnt have a say doesnt mean he shouldnt be responsible for the product.

It utterly amazes me that you expect men to have rights when the ability to protect themselves through putting a condom on or vasectomy but they shirk that responsibility. Where are all the drugs for men to prevent pregnancy?

Men have plenty of rights and control.

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A man should not have the right to say that a fetus should or shouldnt be aborted. What he SHOULD have done is taken half the responsibility of birth control.

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ORIGINAL: Elisabella

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ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19


A man should not have the right to say that a fetus should or shouldnt be aborted. What he SHOULD have done is taken half the responsibility of birth control. Until he does this he has no rights over the body carrying the fetus. And just because he doesnt want the resulting baby and didnt have a say doesnt mean he shouldnt be responsible for the product.

It utterly amazes me that you expect men to have rights when the ability to protect themselves through putting a condom on or vasectomy but they shirk that responsibility. Where are all the drugs for men to prevent pregnancy?

Men have plenty of rights and control.

A woman should not have the right to say that a fetus should or shouldnt be aborted. What she SHOULD have done is taken half the responsibility of birthcontrol. Until she does this she has no rights over the fetus. And just because she doesnt want the resulting baby and didnt have a say in whether or not she was able to abort doesnt mean she shouldnt be responsible for the product.

It utterly amazes me that you expect woman to have rights when the ability to protect themselves through taking the pill or tubal ligation but they shirk that responsibility. Where are all the drugs for women to prevent pregnancy?

Women have plenty of rights and control.

--

I do agree that men shouldn't be able to force or prevent an abortion but as far as the rest goes, it's pure and simple sexism. If a woman has the right to abdicate motherhood, a man should have the equal right to abdicate fatherhood, and saying "s/he should have used birth control" just doesn't cut it.

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ORIGINAL: barelynangel

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A man should not have the right to say that a fetus should or shouldnt be aborted. What he SHOULD have done is taken half the responsibility of birth control.

So let's be clear, you believe that because a pregnancy occurs during sex a MAN shouldn't have a say whether the fetus is aborted because the accident of such may have been his. BUT a woman SHOULD have sole say in aborting or having the fetus because she was irresponsible in HER HALF of the birth control? Are you for real?

I mean you have just give pro-lifer's the PERFECT tag line -- the woman should have taken taking HER HALF of responsibility in birth control.

I love women who blame men for everything and then say they have no say in the results. Yeah, we all know WOMEN always take the pill dead on accurately, we know women always say hey put this condom on before we have sex. Unfucking believable that people here actually are implying that the MAN should have NO SAY in abortion due to his opps, but a woman should have ALL SAY due to hers?

angel

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Half of men are in arrears on their child support at any given time in the USA, and there is very little consistent child support enforcement in this country and it even gets even harder to enforce across state lines. Men will do things like work under the table to hide assets, etc, to get out of paying for their children.... often these children were born in the context of marriage. So, you see, there are a lot of fathers out there that are abdicating their responsibilities in this country... the child pays for it.

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This is the deal, in debates like this I have very little patience for people who bring up parental rights... it isn't about the parents... it is about the kids. Life ain't fair to either gender. It is unfair to women and it is unfair to men... just in different ways.