M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (Full Version)

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heartfeltsub -> M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 4:21:06 PM)

i hope that i can get out some of the swirling thoughts that arose due to the slave retreat i attended this weekend. At the last slave retreat that i attended, it became clear to me that i reason that i so strongly identify as a submissive and not a slave was fear of being a slave, part of which i have addressed in a previous thread. While i had tried to convince myself for years, that i wouldn't take the title of slave was because i had too much respect for the title and the responsiblities that holding that title demands, the real reason was because of the underlying fear.

Over the weekend, i asked a question of those present, which i would like to ask here of those who are in a obedience based M/s relationship and that question is this, do you (a) have a punishment dynamic, (b) think there has to be some mechanism to deal with mistakes/disobedience, or (c) can a M/s relationship work with no way to deal with mistakes/disobedience. For a long time, i have said that i wouldn't do well in a relationship that has a punishment dynamic. That statement became clearer to me this weekend, when i realized that while yes, physical punishment due to my childhood abuse would not be good for me, other forms of punishment would not have the same mental affect. That being said, there was still an internal fear of having a punishment dynamic even if it wasn't physical because of level of authority i would be given to another to give them the "right" to punish me if i screw up was really the underlying fear, not just the fear of physical repercussions.  So i am looking for some answers to the previous questions and also for any who have a punishment dynamic, did you go into it with a similar fear of the giving of that much authority to someone else?

What also came up this weekend, is my realization, or verbalization of my inability to, of my own volition, end a close emotionally based relationship, which was part of what i was addressing in the Conditioning or Choice thread. So part of what i would like to ask is of Master's who seek to internally enslave their slaves, what kind of thought process went into seeking to do that, what kind of questions did you ask yourself, what kind of questions would you want a potential slave to ask you before entering into such a relationship?

i realize that this is a convoluted thread because i have a lot of thoughts going through my mind, issues that have arisen that i am now seeing clearer and will now be able to deal with better.

Thank you in advance for your replies

heartfelt (potential slave)

*Edited because i hit enter wayyyyyy too early



VaguelyCurious -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 4:28:36 PM)

I think part of your question might have been chopped off, heartfelt (?)

Either that or something's horribly wrong with my browser...



thornhappy -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 4:30:32 PM)

I votes for chopped off.



RavenMuse -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 4:36:21 PM)

a) No... I don't need to fabricate an excuse to beat her ass, I don't need to fuck up My relationship by promoting negative behaviour, rewarding it with play. I maintain DISCIPLINE which is rather different. If there is a fuck up, I find out WHY, then I look for ways I can reduce the possibility of it happening again, This is what is taken forward. Punishment, in the VERY rare event of it ever being needed is where she can't let it go, where she is still beating herself up over it, a cathartic event helps her do so..... And I mean very rare, so far, in the last 2 and a half years, it has been needed twice only, both in the first six months.



heartfeltsub -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 4:43:44 PM)

Yes i hit enter way too early and Thank you RavenMuse for answering my question.



RavenMuse -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 5:01:12 PM)

*G* as it happens My answer to a) also answered b) as in that's the way it works in this household and realism answers c) given there WILL be mistakes and possibly some for of disobedience from time to time, even if not wilful, therefore the relationship has to have some form of problem solving mechanism to deal with them. Even 'nilla's have to have some way to handle problems, even if not negotiated, else the relationship ends at the first major hurdle. Within an M/s Dynamic it is the Masters responsibility to set out clearly the way HE will handle such problems and hopefully that will be a way compatible with what the girl can work within. 



SimplyMichael -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 5:12:24 PM)

That isn't Butchman's you were at was it?

I have a woman who is in service to me, she wants me to beat her to punish her for past crimes in her primary relationship. At first I could sort of see the point, provide closure and all that sort of stuff but it occurred to me that that STILL creates a cycle. First it makes being human and having issues as something "bad" and beating her absolves her of past crimes but it sets her up for failure because she is going to make those mistakes again (in smaller and smaller ways) and we always find other issues to work on and so I decided it was silly to do that.

Instead I am working with her to teach her to forgive herself for those past deeds and to simply catch herself when she is doing that sort of stuff, correct it, and get rewards for that.

Part of the problem with punishment is those who want/need it often came from childhoods where they got most of their attention from a negative place and so they acted out to get attention. I want to change that entire paradigm and so punishment just doesn't work like that although it does have its place.

I was in bed with some lovely women the other night and one of them playfully bit me, she has done it a time or two before and I have gently stated how I dislike it. I sat bolt upright and loudly and harshly told her if she ever did that again, I would walk the fuck out. She probably won't do it again, but it was one of those "hot in the moment" things that talking about won't cure...and so a bit of trauma around it will serve to remind her next time she is thinking of biting down.



Aileen1968 -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 5:15:58 PM)

(a)We've never discussed a punishment dynamic, so I don't even know if we have one.
(b)I would assume that we'd deal with a mistake by talking about it.
(c)Our relationship is functional, real, rational and quite happy, so I guess it can work with no way to deal.

That being said...I've expressed my concerns about falling short. I'm always the one to give in first during a beating, etc.
He's told me that it's not a pass/fail relationship. As long as I've tried my absolute best and hardest, then he's happy.
Works for me. Works for him. (We're also not high protocol/rules type of people)



dreamerdreaming -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 5:16:18 PM)

a)
No we do not have a reward/punishment dynamic. The idea bores me. Knowing that I wouldn't want to bother with reward/punishment, I just chose a slaveboy who is obedient, to begin with. He makes honest mistakes. Those need not be punished. Everyone makes mistakes. That's how we learn. He's a grown man. He is not stagnant. He learns, and moves forward.

In other words, if you just choose a slave (or choose to be a slave) who is willingly compliant and obedient to begin with, then the whole reward/punishment dynamic is unnecessary.

We do FUNishment. If I want to have him suffer for our pleasure, it is not tied to his behavior in any way. Its just because we find it YUMMY! [:)]

I will beat his ass, humiliate and objectify him, or whatever else, for our mutual enjoyment. For our white-hot, exquisite pleasure.

If ever I want to induce a situation in which he is guaranteed to fail, as a trumped-up excuse to inflict FUNishment, I will make sure that he knows beforehand, that this is the plan. So that he doesn't feel like he has truly failed me. So he knows in advance that its just a setup for "failure". As long as he knows that its all in fun, and that eventual "failure" is the plan, then we can both enjoy such a scenario. But there's no need to trump up such an excuse. There need not ever be any other reason for yummy FUNishment, than our own rapt enjoyment of it, and of each other.

We are in this for our MUTUAL pleasure, fulfillment and self- actualization, or self-realization. In everything we do, these are the goals. A reward/punishment dynamic just isn't necessary for us to achieve them.



heartfeltsub -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 5:40:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

That isn't Butchman's you were at was it?

I have a woman who is in service to me, she wants me to beat her to punish her for past crimes in her primary relationship. At first I could sort of see the point, provide closure and all that sort of stuff but it occurred to me that that STILL creates a cycle. First it makes being human and having issues as something "bad" and beating her absolves her of past crimes but it sets her up for failure because she is going to make those mistakes again (in smaller and smaller ways) and we always find other issues to work on and so I decided it was silly to do that.

Instead I am working with her to teach her to forgive herself for those past deeds and to simply catch herself when she is doing that sort of stuff, correct it, and get rewards for that.

Part of the problem with punishment is those who want/need it often came from childhoods where they got most of their attention from a negative place and so they acted out to get attention. I want to change that entire paradigm and so punishment just doesn't work like that although it does have its place.

I was in bed with some lovely women the other night and one of them playfully bit me, she has done it a time or two before and I have gently stated how I dislike it. I sat bolt upright and loudly and harshly told her if she ever did that again, I would walk the fuck out. She probably won't do it again, but it was one of those "hot in the moment" things that talking about won't cure...and so a bit of trauma around it will serve to remind her next time she is thinking of biting down.


Thank you Michael for your reply, no it wasn't Butchman's, it was a slave retreat hosted at my friend's home. Part of the reason that i asked the question, was when i asked in at the retreat, i was met with, how can you have an obedience based M/s relationship with out a punishment dynamic. i was repeatedly told, well if he sets up a rule that he wants me to follow and i forget repeatedly and there is no consequence, then i lose trust in that the rules have meaning. And while i follow that line of thinking, the impression that it left was that an obedience based M/s relationship has to have a punishment dynamic, instead of it just being the case for those who were in attendance at the retreat, which is why i wanted to ask a wider audience so to speak.

i also wanted to deal with the idea or fear of giving someone that much authority in my life that they had the "right" to punish me for any misdeeds (although given who i am) they would be few. i think, as i am coming to grips with the fact that the desire to be a slave lies within me, that giving someone that much authority in my life is a enticing but scary proposition and i am gathering information to try to deal with the scary part of the equation.

i don't desire punishment, i just don't want to be afraid of it, if the person i end up with sees that as part of an M/s relationship.

Thank you again for your reply,
heartfelt



heartfeltsub -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 5:41:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

(a)We've never discussed a punishment dynamic, so I don't even know if we have one.
(b)I would assume that we'd deal with a mistake by talking about it.
(c)Our relationship is functional, real, rational and quite happy, so I guess it can work with no way to deal.

That being said...I've expressed my concerns about falling short. I'm always the one to give in first during a beating, etc.
He's told me that it's not a pass/fail relationship. As long as I've tried my absolute best and hardest, then he's happy.
Works for me. Works for him. (We're also not high protocol/rules type of people)


That may have been the difference in answers that i got, most of the people at the retreat were high protocol rule people. Thank you Aileen for your reply.

heartfelt



heartfeltsub -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 5:49:42 PM)

Thank you Dreamer for your reply.

quote:


In other words, if you just choose a slave (or choose to be a slave) who is willingly compliant and obedient to begin with, then the whole reward/punishment dynamic is unnecessary.


That is the kind of person that i am, willingly compliant and obedient, but then so was at least one the other people at the retreat, and probably all of them were, i just know one of them very well. And she comes at a punishment dynamic from the position of it lets her know that the rules that her Master has set in place are important enough for him to notice if she failed to do them, not from deliberately failing to do them, but rather (because of ADD) forgot to do them. And him punishing her, helps reassure her that he sees her as important enough to notice her behavior. i get that idea and while i would still rather not be in a relationship with a punishment dynamic to it, i get where she is coming from.

All of the people who were at the retreat this weekend, with the exception of myself are in a complete authority transfer type of M/s relationship, is the relationship with you and your boy similar?

Thank you again for your reply,
heartfelt



osf -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 5:51:27 PM)

To me punishment is a concept not an act and should be proportional

I hope that makes sense



Dominasola -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 6:05:06 PM)

I wouldn't  be able to be a slave if a punishment dynamic existed in my relationship.  I'm not wired in a way that would allow punishment to improve a relationship; it would only destroy it.  I'm hard enough on myself even when I make non-mistakes (things that I think I messed up on, but not perceived that way by my Master). I linger over these "non-mistakes," chastising myself over and over and over again until I get so anxious that I nearly break down (something that I'm working on).  I have discovered over the past few months that I am inherently submissive and obedient.  The fear that something I might do will displease my Master is enough of a punishment for me to have even have the thought pop into my head. I've been this way my whole life - never once had I gotten into trouble when I was young... neither at school nor at home.  I wasn't good because I didn't want to do the things that would get other children in trouble. I was good because I had the inherent need to please those who were in a position of authority.

I suppose I may be different than some in my "slave-ness"  in that I didn't see myself as a slave - nor even as a submissive - when I met my Master. I had no idea what the D/s or M/s dynamic involved; when I encountered discussions on punishment dynamics on the boards here, one thought kept going through my head: how can a relationship work when there HAS to be punishment?  I suppose I'm a bit narrow-minded in this way, but I honestly think that a relationship where punishment has to be administered for incorrect behaviour is not a good relationship at all. Those in the s-type position have to have a fair amount of integrity, and when I encounter s-types saying they've been bad because they disobeyed their D-type by doing x instead of y intentionally, I just have to shake my head.  If true punishment for intentionally incorrect behaviour is appreciated somehow by both parties, then rock on - more power to you. But when I hear about punishment dynamics, I can only think about how the D-type is somehow setting expectations much too high, or the s-type just doesn't give a rat's ass about obedience.

As for dealing with mistakes or disobedience...I don't think that disobedience will ever come into the equation in my present relationship. He is such a powerful presence in my life - even when we are apart - that I would never, ever, want to disobey him.  I couldn't hurt him like that.  He puts his trust in me to be good.  I could never break that trust. Mistakes - well, I suppose it depends on the mistake. Miscommunications have happened, and I have freaked out when I realized what I had done.  Issues are resolved through communicating - making me aware of what I have done.  This awareness is good enough for me to ensure that similar mistakes will not occur in the future.

And, if I may add something I have begun to notice, heartfelt:

I feel as though this exploration of slave-ness is causing some anxiety in you.  Every time I see another wonderful thread started by you, I wonder why you seem to be so focused on why you feel as though you can't be a slave...but wanting to be at the same time.  As much as becoming more self-aware and overcoming obstacles (like the various fears of loss of control, punishment, etc...) help in this quest, I really think that someone who IS so aware of her surroundings and of herself can really only be a slave if coupled with the right person to be a slave to.   Although I, for example, am not necessarily naturally "wired" like others to always need an M/s relationship, I discovered that I COULD open myself up to my Master and that I COULD give him the level of submission and obedience that he feels he needs from a partner.  I truly don't think that I could do it with anyone I felt compatible with...even anyone I have trusted and been in relationships with before. I am not a slave on my own...he brings it out in me. Even with all of these fears, I do think that if you find the level of commitment and trust in a relationship you need, you will - without fear - be able to be what you want for a special someone. [:)]

(I'm sorry if any of this doesn't make sense.  I tried to read it over, but sometimes it's hard to notice confusion when it all makes sense in your head! [:D])



dreamerdreaming -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 6:12:20 PM)

Yes, exactly. 24/7. The relationship depends on his obedience. If he were the kind of slave who required a reward/punishment dynamic, we just wouldn't be compatible. I really have no interest in it, at all.



Edited to add: Anytime, girlfriend! I came from your side of the slash. [:)]



LadyPact -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 6:15:17 PM)

(a) Yes, I do.

(b)  Again, yes, but I think it's important to mention through this discussion that a dynamic that involves punishments doesn't mean that it's a black and white issue.  What I use is more of a disciplinary way of handling situations, very much the same as way as some would find at their work or school.  More of a progressive steps kind of thing.  Step one of course being the discussion of does the boy understand the behavior is not desired, why I don't want it, etc.  If it's repeated, we start looking at underlying issues, reasons it might be continuing, etc.  When I know none of that applies and it still continues, I have to start looking at if this is an area of incompatibility and is it to the degree that the dynamic has met an area where it can not be successful.  Is whatever is happening occurring due to willful disobedience? 

Punishment usually falls in at that last stage.  I either have the authority in the dynamic or I don't.  If I don't there's no point in the boy being collared to Me to begin with.  Punishment is one of the methods of conveying  that.  (Please note that it's not the only one.) 

It's important to mention here that I don't punish for mistakes.  I don't punish for situational issues that weren't under the boys control.  (For example, I don't punish him for being late if there was traffic and the time he allowed to get to where he's supposed to be would have been sufficient under normal circumstances.)  If something happened that was so severe that I skipped the usual steps to address it, we're talking about an issue so extreme that I'm immediately looking at whether this is a functioning dynamic or not.  Also, I don't use corporal punishment the way most people would think of it.

(c)  Is it in the realm of possibilities?  I'm sure it is.  I'm sure that someone out there is doing it.  I just don't happen to be that person.  I'm not especially sure that something can be considered a punishment dynamic up until a punishment has actually been carried out.  It's possible that the dynamic has been structured that way, but the actual punishment has never been needed.  All things are possible.



DesFIP -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 6:16:06 PM)

We're not a m/s obedience based dynamic. With that said I usually do what he says, the only area of disagreement is how I raise my teen aged son. I'm not as harsh as he thinks I ought to be, but this isn't an area where he can have control because my son hasn't consented to obey him.

I tend to obey him because he makes good decisions. If he made bad ones, I wouldn't be with him.

But just as I don't hit my kids, he doesn't hit me. We talk things over and attempt to solve the problem. I couldn't agree to be punished for making mistakes. I'm human, I'm fallible and I do make mistakes. Being punished for that would be setting me up for failure because I know I couldn't ever do everything right, so I wouldn't even try. I'd give up in the beginning. 

Since he's smart, he doesn't go by some rule book that says every s type needs to be beaten regularly. He sees what works with me and what doesn't.



lally2 -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 6:26:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
.. i was repeatedly told, well if he sets up a rule that he wants me to follow and i forget repeatedly and there is no consequence, then i lose trust in that the rules have meaning. And while i follow that line of thinking, the impression that it left was that an obedience based M/s relationship has to have a punishment dynamic, instead of it just being the case for those who were in attendance at the retreat, which is why i wanted to ask a wider audience so to speak.
.
i don't desire punishment, i just don't want to be afraid of it, if the person i end up with sees that as part of an M/s relationship.

Thank you again for your reply,
heartfelt


green bit:  what sort of Ms dynamic would that be though - for the slave to 'repeatedly' forget?? - hearty [:)] - you have to remember that there are subs and Dominants who like the whole punishment dynamic - a slave that 'repeatedly' forgets is doing that for some reason, wouldnt you say -

you are not the disobedient type, youre yearning to be brave enough to give into an Ms relationship is entirely because you wish to be able to safely hand youreself over to someone who will value youre obedience and desire to please and serve them.

having been a slave to someone, wilfull and scatty as i am, the fabric of Ms made it near impossible for me to disobey or flout rules - because to do so would have felt too much like i was undermining the very thing i valued so much and would have been deeply disrespectful to the Master i was with.

people who repeatedly or capably flout rules and/or expectations are in a punishment dynamic because they want/need/respond to being punished.  a strong statement i know, but i think im right.

so.... for you to be afraid of punishment goes a bit deeper than just the actual act of it.  its the whole failing to live up to the standards laid down.  but youre not that sort of person and personally i dont think you should find youreself a Master who believes in punishment as the first and last resort for lots of reasons, but mainly because youre not the disobedient type but also because of the trauma attached to the whole idea of it.

in the end there are no hard and fast rules on how an Ms relationship should be arranged.  its about two adults working out together how theyre adult relationship is going to go down for their mutual benefit and pleasure.

there doesnt have to be punishment but there does have to be repurcussions if the TPE dynamic is undermined by the slave, otherwise the TPE starts to unravel.  for some, having a Master who'll punish them for basically undermining the TPE is reassuring - it provides a boundary fence over which they cannot climb - it gives them firm parameters to work within - some need that focal point to keep them ticking along.  you dont.  everyone is different, every relationship is different according to the personalities involved.



heartfeltsub -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 6:36:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

To me punishment is a concept not an act and should be proportional

I hope that makes sense


Not entirely, are you saying with the punishment is a concept, that it would be part of your relationship in "theory" but not in practice? Or that you would have a punishment dynamic and punishments would be proportional to the "offense" so to speak.



heartfeltsub -> RE: M/s, a Punishment Dynamic, Internal Enslavement and a Master's Perspective (3/21/2010 6:49:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dominasola

I wouldn't  be able to be a slave if a punishment dynamic existed in my relationship.  I'm not wired in a way that would allow punishment to improve a relationship; it would only destroy it.  I'm hard enough on myself even when I make non-mistakes (things that I think I messed up on, but not perceived that way by my Master). I linger over these "non-mistakes," chastising myself over and over and over again until I get so anxious that I nearly break down (something that I'm working on).  I have discovered over the past few months that I am inherently submissive and obedient.  The fear that something I might do will displease my Master is enough of a punishment for me to have even have the thought pop into my head. I've been this way my whole life - never once had I gotten into trouble when I was young... neither at school nor at home.  I wasn't good because I didn't want to do the things that would get other children in trouble. I was good because I had the inherent need to please those who were in a position of authority.

I suppose I may be different than some in my "slave-ness"  in that I didn't see myself as a slave - nor even as a submissive - when I met my Master. I had no idea what the D/s or M/s dynamic involved; when I encountered discussions on punishment dynamics on the boards here, one thought kept going through my head: how can a relationship work when there HAS to be punishment?  I suppose I'm a bit narrow-minded in this way, but I honestly think that a relationship where punishment has to be administered for incorrect behaviour is not a good relationship at all. Those in the s-type position have to have a fair amount of integrity, and when I encounter s-types saying they've been bad because they disobeyed their D-type by doing x instead of y intentionally, I just have to shake my head.  If true punishment for intentionally incorrect behaviour is appreciated somehow by both parties, then rock on - more power to you. But when I hear about punishment dynamics, I can only think about how the D-type is somehow setting expectations much too high, or the s-type just doesn't give a rat's ass about obedience.

As for dealing with mistakes or disobedience...I don't think that disobedience will ever come into the equation in my present relationship. He is such a powerful presence in my life - even when we are apart - that I would never, ever, want to disobey him.  I couldn't hurt him like that.  He puts his trust in me to be good.  I could never break that trust. Mistakes - well, I suppose it depends on the mistake. Miscommunications have happened, and I have freaked out when I realized what I had done.  Issues are resolved through communicating - making me aware of what I have done.  This awareness is good enough for me to ensure that similar mistakes will not occur in the future.

And, if I may add something I have begun to notice, heartfelt:

I feel as though this exploration of slave-ness is causing some anxiety in you.  Every time I see another wonderful thread started by you, I wonder why you seem to be so focused on why you feel as though you can't be a slave...but wanting to be at the same time.  As much as becoming more self-aware and overcoming obstacles (like the various fears of loss of control, punishment, etc...) help in this quest, I really think that someone who IS so aware of her surroundings and of herself can really only be a slave if coupled with the right person to be a slave to.   Although I, for example, am not necessarily naturally "wired" like others to always need an M/s relationship, I discovered that I COULD open myself up to my Master and that I COULD give him the level of submission and obedience that he feels he needs from a partner.  I truly don't think that I could do it with anyone I felt compatible with...even anyone I have trusted and been in relationships with before. I am not a slave on my own...he brings it out in me. Even with all of these fears, I do think that if you find the level of commitment and trust in a relationship you need, you will - without fear - be able to be what you want for a special someone. [:)]

(I'm sorry if any of this doesn't make sense.  I tried to read it over, but sometimes it's hard to notice confusion when it all makes sense in your head! [:D])



Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for this reply Dominasola, it makes absolute sense and i am coming, maybe sitting on the doorstep of arriving at the same conclusion that you raised in your last pararaph. i can see inside of me the potential to be a slave, with the right person. It is there, there is something in me that needs a relationship in which i give that level of authority to another and one by one i am facing the fears that might keep me from such a relationship.

i am also a person who was always obedient growing up, even as a teenager, i never got in trouble, it was too important to me to be pleasing to those in authority. i know that some have a punishment dynamic to their relationships, not because the s-type is being willfully disobedient, but rather to keep the s-type from beating him or herself up when he or she feels like they have disappointed their Master in some manner. i can see the benefit of it in that regard. i COMPLETELY agree with you on people who call themselves slaves who willfully obey making me shake my head in disbelief.

Yes i have been expressing some anxiety, but it is not in the exploration of my potential slaveness, but rather in peeling back the layers on the fears that would keep me from all i can be from my core. After this weekend, answers are starting to come, some internal things are starting to fall into place and it doesn't freak me out to one day picture myself as a slave, well not as much.

Thank you again so much for your reply Dominasola, on more than one occasion now your words have been the key to unlock something inside of myself.

heartfelt



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