RE: Health care passes

RE: Health care passes (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> RE: Health care passes (3/22/2010 2:46:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella Is anyone else a bit squicked that such a monumentally important bill passed by such a small margin, and with a significant number of Dems opposing? I say this as someone who is 100% for public healthcare (not with this bill, specifically, but in general) and I think something like this really needs to be a fully bipartisan effort. I'm surprised the bill was passed, because expanding health coverage in the US has been such a graveyard issue, political hot potato, and oppositional rallying cry for the Republicans. Not only did the bill pass with these obstacles, but it also was passed just one year after a full scale economic meltdown -- which bottomed out in March 2009 -- and and it passed while the US still has two endless wars smoldering from the Bush days, wars initiated nine and seven years ago! I'm pessimistic you can expand health care coverage and cut the federal deficit at the same time. That smacks of chicanery to me. At some point, something will have to give. That point will arrive when China stops lending the US money -- then the Congressional wonks will really have to tackle budget issues they've been ignoring since Reagan enshrined borrowing as the US political panacea.

truckinslave -> RE: Health care passes (3/22/2010 3:02:18 PM)
quote: I don't see such a sea change Perhaps you missed Massachusetts. Perhaps you really believe the nation is evenly divided on this, despite the polls. Perhaps you even think the energy is evenly divided (taken a nap at any Coffee Party rallies lately?). To the extent that you do, you're wrong. But you're entirely right about upcoming outrages. My guess is that they will include some sort of shamnesty bill, and a return of crappin' tax. Both of which will also drive up the intensity level on the Republican side, because attempts to pass either one are further attempts to govern against the will of the people. You would be right about the short memories of the American people if this admin wasn't so determined to keep rubbing salt in the wounds. The Obama agenda dies in January.

thompsonx -> RE: Health care passes (3/22/2010 4:47:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 "Democrats to Americans; SCREW YOU!" I did not know that you were authorized to speak for all democrats...sometimes your candor just amazes me.

Musicmystery -> RE: Health care passes (3/22/2010 4:52:00 PM)
quote: Perhaps you really believe the nation is evenly divided on this, despite the polls. Actually, that's exactly what the polls show. The election will turn on the economy. If the economy turns around, business as usual. If it doesn't, voters will turn them out. Of course, that's what they did when they were angry at Republicans, so what this accomplishes is more of the same. It's a self-inflicted wound.

thompsonx -> RE: Health care passes (3/22/2010 5:05:32 PM)
Tim, I agree that statement is an overstatement, but it also shines light on the stated goal, to put the insurance companies out of business. I am not sure how many folks these companies employ but I would guess it is a bunch. It also takes those companies and the salaries they pay out of the tax paying business. I simply wanted to point out some of the other consequences of killing the beast. From the above statement it would seem that you think the federal government has a national insurance company already built and in the wings to take over from private industry just as soon as the ink is dry on the document. A more sober assessment might be that as the government beauracy is built it will be populated by the same employees who now work for private insurance companies. If it goes to single payer with no private insurance companies then what has happened to the money tree. The employees still get paid. There is no disbursment of dividends to stock holders and no Board members with 7 figure salaries. Which would translate to lower premiums/taxes. Oh yes I am sure you will point out that when the government runs something it will be filled with graft unlike their private enterprise counterparts...you and I both know that at least with government there is professional oversight while in private business it is a way of life.

thompsonx -> RE: Health care passes (3/22/2010 5:09:17 PM)
FR: Yesterday all I heard from the rednecks was that if the bill passed there would be rioting in the streets ...I just got back from the COSTCO and it seems I wore my body armor for nothing. Shit not even one gun fight or even anyone with a bullhorn exhorting us to action. OMFG what if come election time people have wised up and recognized that national health care is like as necessary as air and they vote every obstructionist out of office...too kewel[:D]

TreasureKY -> RE: Health care passes (3/22/2010 5:14:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: Perhaps you really believe the nation is evenly divided on this, despite the polls. Actually, that's exactly what the polls show. I'm not so sure about calling it "evenly"... quote: The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone poll, taken Friday and Saturday nights, shows that 41% of likely voters favor the health care plan. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed. These figures have barely budged in recent months. Another finding that has remained constant is that the intensity is stronger among those who oppose the plan. The latest findings include 26% who Strongly Favor the plan and 45% who Strongly Oppose it. The partisan divide remains constant as well. Seventy-four percent (74%) of Democrats favor the plan, while 87% of Republicans are opposed. As for those not affiliated with either major party, 34% are in favor, and 59% are opposed. Still, 50% of all voters say they’re less likely to vote this November to reelect a member of Congress who votes for the health care plan. Fifty-seven percent (57%) believe that if the plan passes, the cost of health care will go up. Only 17% believe the plan will achieve the stated goal of reducing the cost of care. At the same time, most voters (54%) believe that passage of the plan will hurt the quality of care. And what I considered a most interesting bit of that poll... quote: The disconnect between sustained public opposition to the health care plan and the belief it may pass may be one reason that just 21% of voters believe the federal government has the consent of the governed. Another recent poll... quote: A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll found that 59 percent of those surveyed opposed the bill, and 39 percent favored it. All of the interviews were conducted before the House voted Sunday night, but the contents of the bill were widely known. In addition, 56 percent said the bill gives the government too much involvement in health care; 28 percent said it gives the government the proper role and 16 percent said it leaves Washington with an inadequate role. On the question of costs, 62 percent said the bill increases the amount of money they personally spend on health care; 21 percent said their costs would remain the same and 16 percent said they would decrease. How close does close have to be in order to claim the divide is equal? [sm=dunno.gif]

Thadius -> RE: Health care passes (3/22/2010 5:16:43 PM)
Where is the offset in revenue in to the government once it is no longer receiving the proposed additional capital gains taxes oh and those taxes on the 7 figure incomes and their bonuses? I can't wait to see how they score the benefits packages for all the new govt employees, oh and don't forget the pensions. As far as the complete takeover by government, I don't think it will ever be allowed to happen, but if it does, just think 15 or so years down the road perhaps they can cut costs by only allowing service 3 days a week... Just a suggestion.[8\|] (note the sarcasm)

Musicmystery -> RE: Health care passes (3/22/2010 5:25:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: Perhaps you really believe the nation is evenly divided on this, despite the polls. Actually, that's exactly what the polls show. I'm not so sure about calling it "evenly"... quote: The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone poll, taken Friday and Saturday nights, shows that 41% of likely voters favor the health care plan. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed. These figures have barely budged in recent months. Another finding that has remained constant is that the intensity is stronger among those who oppose the plan. The latest findings include 26% who Strongly Favor the plan and 45% who Strongly Oppose it. The partisan divide remains constant as well. Seventy-four percent (74%) of Democrats favor the plan, while 87% of Republicans are opposed. As for those not affiliated with either major party, 34% are in favor, and 59% are opposed. Still, 50% of all voters say they’re less likely to vote this November to reelect a member of Congress who votes for the health care plan. Fifty-seven percent (57%) believe that if the plan passes, the cost of health care will go up. Only 17% believe the plan will achieve the stated goal of reducing the cost of care. At the same time, most voters (54%) believe that passage of the plan will hurt the quality of care. And what I considered a most interesting bit of that poll... quote: The disconnect between sustained public opposition to the health care plan and the belief it may pass may be one reason that just 21% of voters believe the federal government has the consent of the governed. Another recent poll... quote: A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll found that 59 percent of those surveyed opposed the bill, and 39 percent favored it. All of the interviews were conducted before the House voted Sunday night, but the contents of the bill were widely known. In addition, 56 percent said the bill gives the government too much involvement in health care; 28 percent said it gives the government the proper role and 16 percent said it leaves Washington with an inadequate role. On the question of costs, 62 percent said the bill increases the amount of money they personally spend on health care; 21 percent said their costs would remain the same and 16 percent said they would decrease. How close does close have to be in order to claim the divide is equal? [sm=dunno.gif] Ultimately, TKY, I don't think it matters. The numbers I heard while driving around were something like 42/46 opposed/for and 38/28 strongly opposed/for. At this point, it's a bill, and the strategies for opposing it are in motion. Polls will change continually as we travel toward November. So whatever. Enjoy the ride.

thompsonx -> RE: Health care passes (3/22/2010 6:18:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Where is the offset in revenue in to the government once it is no longer receiving the proposed additional capital gains taxes oh and those taxes on the 7 figure incomes and their bonuses? I can't wait to see how they score the benefits packages for all the new govt employees, oh and don't forget the pensions. Let me see if I understand you correctly. The government gets to keep the fictional 7 digit salary or it can have the tax on that fictional 7 digit salary? You seem to think that the tax which is a fractional portion of the whole is somehow more than the whole...perhaps that works in your mindset but somehow it defies logic to me. As far as the complete takeover by government, I don't think it will ever be allowed to happen, but if it does, just think 15 or so years down the road perhaps they can cut costs by only allowing service 3 days a week... Perhaps one day you might come to grips with the difference between a government service and a for profit business. Just a suggestion.[8\|] (note the sarcasm)

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