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RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 7:13:26 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

You on the left wanted this mess, now you have it.

Me on the left?

I fall more in the center right area of the understood political spectrum, with a very strong leaning towards personal liberties and a libertarian type philosophy.

Like it or not, for now this is the law of the land. As I have no standing to challenge it yet, I have to abide by it, until it can be changed.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 61

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 7:18:10 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ossature

So the Federal Government passes a law by the approved democratic process, and then the next thing that happens is that individual states try to find a way out of complying with it. Makes me wonder whether it is really 1 country or 50 different countries just pretending to be 1.
Presumably the individual states joined the Union of States voluntarily, so if any state does not like the way the Federal system of Government operates, then presumably they are free to cede from the Union as well.

As part of the forming of the Union, the states specifically stated that the centralized government would have limited powers and explicitly laid out what those powers were. Today, and for many years the central government has been attempting to grab more and more power and test the boundaries of what those limits are. For example, the use of the commerce clause has been the main tool for grabbing more and more of this power. The lawsuits filed today are part of that process and will define whether this bill falls into the field of play or if it is a foul ball.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Ossature)

Post #: 62

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 7:24:05 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

forced social security contributions, taxes.

It will pass. Federal trumps state.

Sorry servant. This is a political battle. This is going to be how it is decided.

The servantsforuse lost. You should have been paying more attention over what had transpired over the last eight years to allow this to happen.

At the least this should make you incredibly happy because it will give you something that you can bitch about and be a source of misery for years to come....Rejoice!!!!

You miserable little man.

Hiya Domi,

I think there is no doubt that the taxes are constitutional. However, I am not sure that the commerce clause allows for forcing or penalizing individuals who choose not to participate (not taking part in something that involves interstate commerce). If it is found that the commerce clause does in fact allow for that type of mandate, what is to stop the fed from mandating we all buy or lease a new GM car every 4 years or be penalized?

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 63

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 7:24:27 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Okay really stupid question but for those who have read it -- does it bloody cover dental and vision?

From the bill...

(2) OFFERING OF COVERAGE.—
9 (A) IN GENERAL.—An Exchange shall make
10 available qualified health plans to qualified indi11
viduals and qualified employers.
12 (B) LIMITATION.—
13 (i) IN GENERAL.—An Exchange may
14 not make available any health plan that is
15 not a qualified health plan.
16 (ii) OFFERING OF STAND-ALONE DEN17
TAL BENEFITS.—Each Exchange within a
18 State shall allow an issuer of a plan that
19 only provides limited scope dental benefits
20 meeting the requirements of section
21 9832(c)(2)(A) of the Internal Revenue Code
22 of 1986 to offer the plan through the Ex23
change (either separately or in conjunction
24 with a qualified health plan) if the plan

139

provides pediatric dental benefits meeting
2 the requirements of section 1302(b)(1)(J)).

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 64

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 7:24:31 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

If the Dems havent made this bill constitutional objection proof or rather closed to any constitutional challenge then it deserves to be struck down.

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(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 65

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 7:28:09 PM

Ossature

Posts: 3
Joined: 2/5/2010
Status: offline

Thanks for the explanation. Rather like the European Union then - an association of Sovereign States for certain purposes only.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ossature

So the Federal Government passes a law by the approved democratic process, and then the next thing that happens is that individual states try to find a way out of complying with it. Makes me wonder whether it is really 1 country or 50 different countries just pretending to be 1.
Presumably the individual states joined the Union of States voluntarily, so if any state does not like the way the Federal system of Government operates, then presumably they are free to cede from the Union as well.

As part of the forming of the Union, the states specifically stated that the centralized government would have limited powers and explicitly laid out what those powers were. Today, and for many years the central government has been attempting to grab more and more power and test the boundaries of what those limits are. For example, the use of the commerce clause has been the main tool for grabbing more and more of this power. The lawsuits filed today are part of that process and will define whether this bill falls into the field of play or if it is a foul ball.

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 66

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 7:29:27 PM

takemeforyourown

Posts: 430
Joined: 2/24/2007
Status: offline

I'm a nurse who voted for Obama. Yet, I have since become disillusioned and would like to remove myself from my affiliation- to him or ANY politician. I've seen some crappy shit in my profession related to insurance issues. I'm sure you can imagine. I would like to see a miracle solution. However, I do not think that a healthcare bill that is only unilaterally supported can do us any service in the long run. Ramming it down the throats of half of Americans isn't the way to do it.

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 67

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 7:29:59 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Does this mean we are going to have to file our income taxes monthly now? And what about going to court to get their fine? Oh yeah it can only go to court if your refuse to pay it and then you will be a potential multicount fellon

Fella, I understand that you're unhappy, but the last thing we need is more misinformation. That's gotten us to the point where damn near everyone is confused about this bill.

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Post #: 68

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 7:34:29 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: takemeforyourown

I'm a nurse who voted for Obama. Yet, I have since become disillusioned and would like to remove myself from my affiliation- to him or ANY politician. I've seen some crappy shit in my profession related to insurance issues. I'm sure you can imagine. I would like to see a miracle solution. However, I do not think that a healthcare bill that is only unilaterally supported can do us any service in the long run. Ramming it down the throats of half of Americans isn't the way to do it.

Very well put.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to takemeforyourown)

Post #: 69

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 7:47:01 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: takemeforyourown

I'm a nurse who voted for Obama. Yet, I have since become disillusioned and would like to remove myself from my affiliation- to him or ANY politician. I've seen some crappy shit in my profession related to insurance issues. I'm sure you can imagine. I would like to see a miracle solution. However, I do not think that a healthcare bill that is only unilaterally supported can do us any service in the long run. Ramming it down the throats of half of Americans isn't the way to do it.

Have you read the bill?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to takemeforyourown)

Post #: 70

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 8:03:50 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

Actually, it might have been a shrewd move. By delaying the major parts of the reform until 2014,....

To me, the major parts of the reform are that insurers can no longer deny or drop coverage, which will be immediate.

(in reply to cadenas)

Post #: 71

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 8:17:35 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Mike, i hear ya. I am surprised with all the connection between diseases and such and rising in like heart things and strokes that can occur DUE TO dental issues that they don't make dental part of the health care.

Okay sorry for the tangent lol.

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 72

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 8:23:07 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

some people just cant read.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 73

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 8:26:13 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

quote:

some people just cant read.

tazzy is that directed toward me?

I presume you aren't directing that towards me so you may want to clarify who it is directed towards.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 3/23/2010 8:27:22 PM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 74

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 8:31:17 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

actually, i was towards a whole bunch of people, including you. the bill, as it stands at this point, does not deny dental coverage, but will allow each state "marketplace" to offer it up as a stand-alone policy, as long as it also covers children. which is what i posted earlier from the bill itself.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 75

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 8:47:33 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Well then tazzy, perhaps you should read my FIRST post regarding dental as i said "for those of you who have READ the bill -- does it provide dental and vision? I have not read it in detail or even in a serious mode, which is why i asked the question.

But you can rest assured when i do get around to reading it, i am quite capable of doing so and probably better than you as reading law documents is something i do for a living. Its also why i haven't discussed it in all seriousness because i actually haven't chosen to read it yet.

You really should think before you post stuff like that in general instead of just presuming its can't instead of simply have not yet.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 3/23/2010 8:49:12 PM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 76

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 8:50:11 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

I did think, angel. and i even read it for you, and posted that section on this very thread. and yet you still cant seem to read what you are seeking. but, rest assured, you are not the only one here.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 77

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 9:01:16 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Thanks to those who responded to my quick question, i will leave you to go back to the regular program and will duck out -- i didn't want to start a new thread for my question so thanks for tolerating my tangent into dental and hopefully you all will help tazzy feel all warm and fuzzy by actually reading her posts as i usualy do not read her posts but she thinks when people choose not to --it means they can't

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 78

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 9:20:34 PM

InvisibleBlack

Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ossature
Presumably the individual states joined the Union of States voluntarily, so if any state does not like the way the Federal system of Government operates, then presumably they are free to cede from the Union as well.

The Civil War pretty much definitively settled that States, once joining Union, are not free to leave whenever they wish.

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

(in reply to Ossature)

Post #: 79

RE: Thanks a whole lot, Republicans. - 3/23/2010 9:24:18 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Oh they are free to try.....but there will be a Federal reaction.....and that can be a bitch.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

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(in reply to InvisibleBlack)

Post #: 80

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