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brainiacsub -> RE: New Poll! Is Obama the Antichrist! (3/26/2010 2:21:32 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
quote:
ORIGINAL: brainiacsub
Although we are each entitled to our own opinions, we are not entitled to our own facts. I presented some facts that support a "theory" that is far more plausible than yours, given those facts. I didn't disregard any part of a "prophecy" you mentioned, it's just that there is nothing stated in the book of Revelation that cannot be better explained when taken in the context of the theory I presented above. Your interpretation requires a HUGE stretch of imagination to believe that anything written in Revelation has any relevance beyond the audience and events of that time.
Thus endeth the lesson [;)]
Bullshit, Brainia. Your facts about Rome and Nero are sufficient to form a theory around, and it's a theory that has been embraced by many within some branches of the faith, but it ignores, as you have continued to do, every bit of the prophecy that doesn't fit. That amounts to most of the book. I addressed this before you ever chimed in, and you just keep pretending it isn't there.
I understand the desire of many Christians to just make all this dark stuff go away, but don't you fucking DARE try to call it a "fact" and dismiss the opinions of millions of others who don't embrace the new, improved doctrine.
Please though, unless you'll find it easier to just admit you fucking lied about what you ignored, and spouted bullshit you heard in whatever Laodicean church you find your answers in, explain to me how the mark of the beast was applied under Nero, and how none could buy or sell without it? Who were the vocal critics that the whole world saw die, and what methodology made that possible? Geology is a hobby of mine, and while I know about the hypothesis of an astronomical impact about 10,000 years ago, into the icepack, I've completely missed anything wiping out 1/3 of the planet's population in the last 1,900. Got anything on that?
The Horsemen are off the table, so no distractions. War, disease, famine and disaster are constants. Go for the biggies. (Though a case would be made from the other side that modern communications make us aware of them in ways undreamed of by previous generations.)
Have you ever even tried reading Revelation for yourself? Get a King Jimmy translation, read it like poetry. That's some fun, scary shit in there. Much better than the Omen.
Rich, I'm not even sure how to address this, so let me just point out a few things:
First, it is considered a fact by most scholars that the Book of Revelation was written to the seven churches of Asia Minor during the reign of Nero and possibly Domitian. Any interpretation of the writing should include the historical context in which it's written. Although it is quite symbolic and difficult to understand sometimes (as were all apocalyses) it does make perfect sense when taken in historical context. Did you read my response to Elisabella? When you understand historically that the book is an apocalypse, modern interpretations seem silly and a bit narcissistic. Do you really think that the entire course of human history has now culminated with us? I will continue to "DARE" to acknowledge facts and the opinions of scholars and dismiss the opinions "of the millions of others" who frankly are not qualified to have opinions in matters of ancient history and theology. I am not dismissive of your faith. You are entitled to believe what you want, but any interpretation of the scriptures that comes soley from reading it as poetry or from the lessens learned in Sunday school is hardly a qualified interpretation.
Second, you accuse me of ignoring - in favor of my Nero theory - any parts of the prophecy that don't fit. No, and I have already addressed this. Revelation is not a book of prophecy but a historical writing of apocalypse. Please reread my response to Elisabella. Also, let me point out that aren't you doing exactly what you accuse me of? Any modern interpretation of the "prophecy" only rings true if you ignore certain features of the text that don't fit. An example would be your mark of the beast statement. Any learned student of ancient Roman history would know that the emperors routinely restricted commerce - the ability to buy, sell and trade freely - among the Jews and Christians as part of a campaign of terror, isolation and oppression. Nero was particularly brutal in this regard, so keeping in mind that Revelation was written during the reign of Nero, doesn't it make more sense to assume that the authors reference to the "mark of the beast" was actually a "prediction" of the inability of the faithful to buy and sell without the approval of Nero as opposed to concocting some elaborate scheme of modern day banking, ATM cards, microchips, or some other farfetched interpretation? I can go on and on debunking all of the so called "prophesies", but I won't. My nerd status will forever be burned in the minds of CMer's if I were to proceed.
Lastly, I have read the Book of Revelation many times. I was raised in a fundamentalist Southern Baptist home so I know the scriptures well. As geology may be a hobby of yours, Theology and ancient history are mine. I have many more books on these topics in my library than I have on sex (of which I'll admit I only have one). Understanding of the Bible cannot come from reading the Bible in a vacuum.
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