Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 5:28:22 AM)

This came up in another recent thread. Thought people may want to see what it would actually cost to round up and deport all the illegal immigrants. i am in no way an advocate to amnesty, but, i do believe it would be a huge windfall for the coffers to offer them the ability to do it right, pay the money, and become legal... after all, we are taking their tax money, giving many very little in the way of benefits, and i really dont want to spend almost 300 billion dollars rounding them all up.

A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money.

Some politician once famously said that. Today, President Obama signed the historic health care reform law that's supposed to cost about $900 billion over 10 years.

That's a lot of money. And so are the costs for deporting all of the illegal immigrants in the U.S.

A new report by the Center for American Progress says it will cost $285 billion to find, apprehend, detain, legally process and transport the almost 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. and maintain current enforcement levels at the border and interior for five years.

CAP says deportation alone would cost $200 billion. Then you have to figure in the $85 billion needed to maintain the current enforcement strategy for five years.

That total figure is triple what the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement estimated it would cost in 2007 to deport the 12 million people estimated to be in the U.S. illegally. The ICE chief told a Senate committee that the deportation price tag would be $94 billion.

From the report:

When viewed through this most narrow but most telling fiscal lens, it should be clear that a deportation-only strategy is highly irresponsible. In these challenging economic times, spending a king's ransom to tackle a symptom of our immigration crisis without addressing root causes would be a massive waste of taxpayer dollars. Spending $285 billion would require $922 in new taxes for every man, woman, and child in this country.

If this kind of money were raised, it could provide every public and private school student from prekindergarten to the 12th grade an extra $5,100 for their education. Or more frivolously, that $285 billion would pay for about 26,146 trips in the private space travel rocket


http://blogs.chron.com/immigration/archives/2010/03/cost_for_mass_d.html




Elisabella -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 5:46:57 AM)

$10k for temporary residency (double what it took me to migrate) plus they have to pass the standard medical/background checks, 2 years later if all is good they can apply for permanent residency, and after 5 years as a legal resident they can take a citizenship test that includes English proficiency.

In other words exactly what it took me to migrate legally, but double the cost. They should be able to legally work with residency but be ineligible for social welfare programs.

The problem is not with immigration, in general, but rather with the type of people who immigrate illegally - poor unskilled labor. We have plenty of poor unskilled labor as it is, the only reason to encourage illegals to come is so the already-wealthy can pay their exploited labor even less than before.




Moonhead -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 5:51:11 AM)

True, Elisabella, but don't a lot of Americans turn their noses up at doing unskilled labour for minimum wage? That's how the current wave of illegal immigration got going in the first place, after all.




Elisabella -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 5:54:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

True, Elisabella, but don't a lot of Americans turn their noses up at doing unskilled labour for minimum wage? That's how the current wave of illegal immigration got going in the first place, after all.


Australian minimum wage is $14.31 per hour
US minimum wage is $7.25

The exchange rate has been hovering around .90 for some time now and for minimum wage, income taxes would be the same in both countries - none.

So long as there are people willing to work for US minimum wage or below, those jobs won't provide a living wage.




tazzygirl -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 6:04:42 AM)

Exactly, Elisabella. But they are kept at a sub-par wage because they cannot complain to any official. Legalizing who is here, along with preventative and punitive means to keep others from following, is our best chance at dealing with many, many issues.




Elisabella -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 6:39:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Exactly, Elisabella. But they are kept at a sub-par wage because they cannot complain to any official. Legalizing who is here, along with preventative and punitive means to keep others from following, is our best chance at dealing with many, many issues.


Strangely, both those tactics have been tried in the past, yet people still keep coming.




Elisabella -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 6:45:17 AM)

Actually, you know what, I take that back...so long as the punitive measures were strong enough, I'd support a retroactive amnesty. And I mean seriously strong - steep fines, minimum 1 year jail term followed by deportation and being blacklisted and prevented from ever legally immigrating here...10 years in jail for repeat offenders.

At the same time the government could consider making it easier to legally immigrate.




Moonhead -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 8:26:45 AM)

Taking punitive measures against employers who use illegal workforces, rather than the wetbacks themselves, would be a lot more effective than anything that's been tried so far.
Sadly the Republicans like the situation a lot more than they admit (just look at Bush's Texan approach to the problem) and the Democrats don't have the balls to do anything about it.




kdsub -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 8:32:55 AM)

We need a consumer tax... then the illegal... and drug dealers would pay.

But to stop illegal immigration there is but one solution…Severely penalize employers who hire them…About 20 years in prison without parole should do it.

Without jobs illegal immigration would stop overnight and cost $0 dollars.

Too simple I guess.

Butch




popeye1250 -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 11:44:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We need a consumer tax... then the illegal... and drug dealers would pay.

But to stop illegal immigration there is but one solution…Severely penalize employers who hire them…About 20 years in prison without parole should do it.

Without jobs illegal immigration would stop overnight and cost $0 dollars.

Too simple I guess.

Butch



Butch, correct! I find it amazing that people in Washington keep comming up with all kinds of fantastic notions for *not* doing their jobs!
I mean *we're paying those people to do a job* and they're cashing their checks every week and telling us that they "can't" do the job!
Common sense eludes them!
You do that in the dreaded private sector just *once* and out the door you go!
It's a federal felony to hire illegals already. Just start prosecuting those who do with huge fines and jail sentences and it'll stop.
My condo assoc. is letting go a lawncare business who does this. With 14%-16% unemployment in this area there's no shortage of workers that these companies can hire! Everyone's looking for work!
It's rediculous when we hear (some) people say that the immigration system is "broken."
Yes, it is "broken" it's broken on the enforcement side!




Musicmystery -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 11:49:42 AM)

We already penalize employers who hire illegals. They're even on the hook for validating documents.

Better enforcement will take---more agents and more dollars.




popeye1250 -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 12:00:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

We already penalize employers who hire illegals. They're even on the hook for validating documents.

Better enforcement will take---more agents and more dollars.


Music, correct. Currently we only have about 4,400 ICE Agents for internal enforcement of *the whole country!*
Local and state police arrest more illegals during traffic stops than ICE does! We need 50,000 or more ICE Agents!
Again, the system is "broken" on the enforcement end.




kdsub -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 1:16:37 PM)

I don't think it would if you made the penalty sever enough... If I was an employer of illegal workers and I saw a fellow illegal employer go to jail for twenty years...I would hire locals for minimum wage...I would not take the chance.

But now it is mostly only a fine...a fine that I make up in illegal hiring in a short time.

Butch




Fellow -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 1:27:59 PM)

quote:

it will cost $285 billion to find, apprehend, detain, legally process and transport the almost 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S.


28 000 per person is hard to believe, train ticket to Mexico does not cost so much. Finding most of illegals is very simple; just look where the jobs are. Can't they outsource the job to Mexicans?

The US government has no intention whatsoever to deport 11 million illegal immigrants. Even suggesting something like this by an official would end their career. We will see an another push for amnesty very soon.




jlf1961 -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 1:58:23 PM)

Summary of HR4321 Immigration Bill

quote:

12/15/2009--Introduced.Comprehensive Immigration Reform for America's Security and Prosperity Act of 2009, the Comprehensive Immigration Reform ASAP Act of 2009, or the CIR ASAP Act of 2009 - Directs the Secretary of Homeland Security (DHS) (Secretary) to:
(1) develop and submit to Congress a National Strategy for Border Security;
(2) increase the number of Customs and Border Protection officers, agriculture specialists, and border security support personnel, and enhance related equipment, assets, and technology;
(3) develop a comprehensive land and maritime border surveillance plan, including aerial and integrated surveillance demonstration programs;
(4) issue a rule for electronic device searches and related agent training;
(5) improve coordination efforts to combat human smuggling;
(6) establish a Border Communities Liaison Office in every Border Patrol sector at the southern and northern borders;
(7) carry out a ports of entry technology demonstration program; and
(8) establish a Southern Border Security Task Force.Authorizes appropriations for border security improvements at U.S. ports of entry. Authorizes border relief grants for tribal, state, or local law enforcement and related agencies in proximity to the border or in a designated High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area. Provides reimbursement for state and county prosecutors in border states for prosecuting federally initiated and referred drug cases. Suspends the Operation Streamline program pending an evaluation of its viability. Expands resources for Project Gunrunner and for Operation Armas Cruzadas along the U.S.-Mexico border. Establishes the United States-Mexico Border Enforcement Commission. Prohibits the U.S. Armed Forces, including the National Guard, from assisting in non-emergency federal, state, local, and civilian law enforcement of immigration laws. Directs the Secretaries of DHS, Interior, Agriculture, Defense, and Commerce to develop:
(1) a land border protection strategy; and
(2) a borderlands environmental monitoring plan. Provides for:
(1) enhanced border cooperation with Mexico; and
(2) expansion of Customs-Trade Partnership Against Terrorism programs. Sets forth detention conditions. Directs the Secretary to appoint an Immigration Detention Commission. Sets forth provisions regarding:
(1) immigration enforcement protections;
(2) unlawful detentions;
(3) protections for vulnerable populations;
(4) apprehension procedures for families and family detention;
(5) welfare requirements for children separated from detained or removed parents;
(6) unaccompanied alien children; and
(7) female detainees. Provides a stay of removal and work authorization for detained alien workers who are witnesses or necessary for workplace prosecution claims. Eliminates, with specified exceptions, DHS authority to enter into agreements with state and local law enforcement agencies to perform immigration law enforcement functions. Establishes in DHS an Immigration and Customs Enforcement Ombudsman. Eliminates the one-year asylun filing requirement. Provides for federal court review of DHS orders of removal currently exempt from such review. Establishes an alien employment verification system which requires employers to comply with:
(1) document verification requirements; and
(2) a phased-in electronic employment verification system. Sets forth backlog reduction provisions respecting family-sponsored and employment-based immigrant levels. Revises the definition of "immediate relative" to:
(1) include the spouse and child of a lawful permanent resident; and
(2) permit a qualifying widow/widower and the child or parent of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident to maintain such status while filing for permanent resident status. Increases:
(1) per-country limits for family-sponsored and employment-based immigrants; and
(2) specified family-unity exceptions to unlawful presence-based inadmissibility. Prohibits the removal from the United States of an individual who:
(1) fled his or her homeland while under the age of 12 years old; and
(2) was later admitted to the United States as a refugee, parolee, or asylee. Exempts the sons and daughters of certain naturalized Filipino World War II veterans from worldwide or numerical immigrant visa limits. Makes a minor child of an alien fiancee/fiance or of an alien spouse of a U.S. citizen eligible for derivative K-visa status under specified circumstances. Redefines "child" to include a stepchild under 21 years old. Amends the Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act of 1998 to:
(1) require determinations with respect to children to be made using the age and status of an individual on October 21, 1998; and
(2) permit an application based upon child status to be filed by a parent or guardian if the child is present in the United States on such filing date. Permits new status adjustment applications to be filed for a limited time period. Reduces the required support level for immigrant sponsorship. Establishes the Prevent Unauthorized Migration Visa (PUM Visa) program which shall provide for:
(1) 100,000 PUM conditional permanent resident visas annually, for three years, to persons from countries (transitional visa admission states) which represent at least 5% of the total unauthorized migration population to the United States for the past five years; and
(2) a process to adjust to permanent resident status. Exempts specified categories of U.S.-educated aliens from employment-based immigration limits. Permits a nonimmigrant alien whose employer has petitioned for an employment-based green card for such alien to file an application for adjustment of status regardless of whether an immigrant visa is immediately available. (Requires visa availability before such application may be approved.) Return of Talent Act - Establishes the Return of Talent Program to permit an eligible alien (and certain family members) to return to the alien's country of citizenship for up to two years in order to contribute to such country's postconflict or natural disaster reconstruction activities. (During such absence the alien and family members shall be considered to be continuously present and residing in the United States for naturalization purposes.) Establishes a conditional nonimmigrant status for qualifying aliens and their dependents who are illegally present or out of status in the United States and who register and meet the requirements for such status. Authorizes:
(1) adjustment from conditional to permanent resident status at the earlier of six years after enactment of this Act or 30 days after specified immigrant visas become available (with exceptions to such time frame for certain students, military personnel, and employed individuals); and
(2) naturalization three years after permanent resident status adjustment. Agricultural Job Opportunities, Benefits, and Security Act of 2009 or the AgJOBS Act of 2009 - Confers "blue card status" upon an alien who:
(1) during the 24-month period ending on December 31, 2008, has performed specified lengths of, or earned a specified amount from, agricultural employment in the United States;
(2) applied for such status during the 18-month application period;
(3) is otherwise admissible to the United States; and
(4) has not been convicted of specified felonies or misdemeanors. Limits the number of blue cards that may be issued during the five-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this Act. Provides for adjustment of blue card status to permanent resident status based upon completed periods of agricultural employment. Revises H-2A visa (agricultural labor or temporary or seasonal services) provisions. Replaces the existing labor certification requirement with a labor attestation requirement containing:
(1) a description of the nature and location of the job;
(2) the job's expected beginning and ending dates;
(3) the number of jobs; and
(4) specified labor assurances respecting job opportunities covered by collective bargaining agreements and non-covered job opportunities. Establishes:
(1) the Commission on Immigration and Labor Markets; and
(2) the Security and Prosperity Account in the Treasury. Requires each State Workforce Agency (SWA) to establish an Internet-based American Worker Recruit and Match program. Requires employers and foreign labor contractors to provide workers recruited abroad with specified employment-related information. Amends H-1B visa (specialty occupation) employer application requirements to:
(1) revise wage determination requirements;
(2) require Internet posting and description of employment positions;
(3) lengthen U.S. worker displacement protection;
(4) apply certain requirements to all H-1B employers rather than only to H-1B dependent employers;
(5) prohibit employer advertising that makes a position available only to, or gives priority to, H-1B nonimmigrants; and
(6) limit the number of H-1B and L-1 visa (intracompany transfer) employees that an employer of 50 or more workers in the United States may hire. Authorizes the Department of Labor (DOL) to:
(1) investigate applications for fraud; and
(2) conduct H-1B compliance audits. Prohibits an employer from hiring an L-1 nonimmigrant for more than one year who will:
(1) serve in a capacity involving specialized knowledge; and
(2) be stationed primarily at the worksite of another employer. Specifies L-1:
(1) employer petition requirements for employment at a new office;
(2) wage rates and working conditions; and
(3) employer penalties. Authorizes:
(1) DOL to enforce federal labor laws with respect to employers of H-2B nonagricultural temporary workers; and
(2) a private right of action against such employers. Specifies employer actions to recruit U.S. workers prior to filing for H-2B admissions. Sets forth H-2B and U.S. Worker protections. Amends EB-5 visa (alien investor) provisions to:
(1) increase EB-5 eligibility;
(2) make the regional center program permanent;
(3) establish $2,500 regional center designation and premium processing fees;
(4) permit concurrent filing for EB-5 petitions and status adjustment applications;
(5) establish in the Treasury the Immigrant Entrepreneur Regional Center Account; and
(6) increase employment creation-related visas. Revises provisions regarding:
(1) immigration service fees;
(2) the naturalization age-based English language proficiency exemption; and
(3) citizenship application background checks. Establishes the New Americans Initiative grants program to to assist lawful permanent resident aliens to become citizens. Authorizes grants for:
(1) public education and community training regarding the provisions of this Act;
(2) community-based organizations to assist naturalization applicants (initial entry, adjustment, and citizenship assistance grants); and
(3) states to form New American Councils. Provides for the naturalization of certain graduates of U.S. high schools who are under 25 years of age on the date of application for naturalization. Establishes:
(1) a tax credit and a deduction for certification expenses for teachers of English language learners; and
(2) a tax credit for employer-provided adult English literacy and basic education programs. Makes funds available for oath of allegiance ceremonies.




popeye1250 -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 2:03:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

it will cost $285 billion to find, apprehend, detain, legally process and transport the almost 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S.


28 000 per person is hard to believe, train ticket to Mexico does not cost so much. Finding most of illegals is very simple; just look where the jobs are. Can't they outsource the job to Mexicans?

The US government has no intention whatsoever to deport 11 million illegal immigrants. Even suggesting something like this by an official would end their career. We will see an another push for amnesty very soon.



Fellow, then what does that say about our govt? It says to me that they're *corrupt* and that they have no intention of listening to The People!
When someone hires you you don't get to "decide" what you'll do.
And I'm sure there's a lot of repubs in Washington secretly hoping that Obama will try an "amnesty" going right into a midterm election!
The Voters are angry enough, let's throw some gasoline on that fire!




slvemike4u -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 2:08:34 PM)

Pops you owe Tazzy a dinner,or at the least flowers.....admit it this thread and the opportunity it presents to you made your day!




Jack45 -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 4:11:05 PM)

Eisenhower instituted OPERATION WETBACK that sent a few million Mexicans back to Mexico. It is very possible but Obama has effectively ordered ICE to stand down.
There are consequences to the deliberate replacement of the American demographics. The price is very costly in physical safety, environmental degradation and worse. Look at Los Angeles today, it is mainstreet America tomorrow.
"We are the only country in history that ever deliberately changed its ethnic makeup, and history has few examples of 'diversity' creating a stable society."
 - Richard Lamm, former Democratic Governor of Colorado




Marini -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 4:33:08 PM)

I find it very, very interesting that I seldom see how much it will cost the United States IF
many illegal immigrants are given widespread amnesty.
 
Why is that? Aren't there almost always at least 2 sides to every story, if not more?

Center for Immigration Studies

This is one of the best articles I have seen, that explains the impact of illegal immigration and
the federal budget.
{IF that is what people are really concerned about.}

Here is an interesting snippet:

 "From a purely fiscal point of view, the main problem with legalization is that illegals would, for the most part, become unskilled legal immigrants. And unskilled legal immigrants create much larger fiscal costs than unskilled illegal aliens. Legalization will not change the low education levels of illegal aliens or the fact that the American labor market offers very limited opportunities to such workers, whatever their legal status. Nor will it change the basic fact that the United States, like all industrialized democracies, has a well-developed welfare state that provides assistance to low-income workers. Large fiscal costs are simply an unavoidable outcome of unskilled immigration given the economic and fiscal realities of America today."  from Center for Immigration Studies, article " The High Cost of Cheap Labor
Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget Executive Summary".


Making unskilled illegal immigrants, unskilled legal immigrants would create larger fiscal costs, is something most people "don't get".
Of course it would make it easier for them to get welfare, food stamps, and access to more government assistance and government programs.
It would create more government jobs for the rising number of people qualifying for government programs and government assistance.

Personally, I think that many illegal immigrants should be given amnestity, but don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining, when you tell me it will save the United States money.

 Anyway, great article worth reading, because it gives the fiscal cost on both sides of the debate.




Vendaval -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/24/2010 4:43:19 PM)

Fast Reply -

So who benefits from the hiring of illegal workers in this country? Do employers? Do consumers?
Does the tax base in a community? Does the state or federal government?

What is more cost effective, amnesty or deportation?




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