RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (Full Version)

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cuckoldmepls -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 4:02:15 PM)

We already tried amnesty once and it resulted in 10 to 15 million more illegals. What part of doesn't work do you not understand. In 10 years they will want another amnesty using the same arguments they are using today. It will never stop unless we stop it now.

Another great reason to stop it is the impact it will have on Obama's health care plan. Illegals are already draining the health care system as it is, with Dallas Parkland hospital having to sue Mexico for their losses. We already know how that will turn out. Well if another amnesty passes, there will be 10 to 15 million more who immediately qualify for free health care, then there will be 30 million more that come in through chain migration over the next decade, then they will all be having babies the whole decade. That means there will be at least 50 million more Illegals on the dole. Most aren't going to show any significant income on paper so they will not have to pay for it.

You just  aren't living in reality. If you want Obama's health care legacy to be successful, you need to join us, and help get the word out. Otherwise it will be another democratic embarassment just like the department of energy which is draining us of billions of dollars while preventing us from becoming energy independent.

www.numbersusa.com
http://babelishere.webs.com/aware.html



domiguy -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 4:15:29 PM)

How has Dallas parkland hospital lost money?  Show me  a news story where they are suing Mexico?

You are dishonest.

Any family members left still on your side?



Real0ne -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 4:37:25 PM)

quote:

new report by the Center for American Progress says it will cost $285 billion to find, apprehend, detain, legally process and transport the almost 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. and maintain current enforcement levels at the border and interior for five years.
http://blogs.chron.com/immigration/archives/2010/03/cost_for_mass_d.html


illegal alien = one who cannot be forced into the social insecurity system to pay for us baby boomers



cuckoldmepls -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 4:42:08 PM)

This story is 3 or 4 years old, so I was only able to find news stories about it on Illegal immigration sites, which you would not trust obviously. Here's a neutral story on how much it has cost parkland hospital though. Here's a key paragraph since I know you were too lazy to look it up yourself.

Parkland officials estimated their cost for nonemergency care for illegal immigrants was $22.4 million in the past year – about halfway between the two Tarrant County estimates.

http://www.uslaw.com/bulletin/hospital-studies-costs-of-treating-illegal-immigrants.php?p=816



cuckoldmepls -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 4:50:16 PM)

Oh geeze, another one who believes the politically correct argument that we only have two choices, deport them all at once or amnesty. Guess why McAmnesty lost the election. Because almost half the conservatives realized McAmnesty's argument was intended to deceive you into believing his cock and bull story that we had no choice. Half the republicans wouldn't vote for him. The other half believed his bullshit.

In reality no one expects them to round them all up and deport them as quickly as possible. What we expect them to do is pass the everify system protecting American jobs, secure the border, and deport the ones we do catch up to in traffic stops or job raids. Eventually they will realize that they won't get away with taking the good paying American jobs, and they will never receive citizenship, and most will self deport.

On top of that we already have a guest worker plan for the growers. So don't give us the excuse that we won't have anyone to pick the crops.



Real0ne -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 5:13:13 PM)



you know you people really need a wake up call.

if the prevention of immigration was an issue the borders would be protected.  Its simply not as important as training americans to live like fucking israelis.

They need them in the SS system its a pay as you go system just like the monetary supply it needs more people at all times to make the motor run or the whole shit mess crashes and burns.

they left the borders open its just not about illegals at all.  how anyone can even go there after they want to make us one big north american union is beyond any realm of reason.



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 5:24:25 PM)

quote:

Eventually they will realize that they won't get away with taking the good paying American jobs, and they will never receive citizenship, and most will self deport.


Exactly which well-paying jobs are these that illegals are stealing?  I'd love to see proof....babelshit and Foxnews links don't count



cloudboy -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 5:50:17 PM)


Keep shootin, partner. You're hitting the targets dead center!



mstrj69 -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 7:28:51 PM)

Taking the OP's statement that to cover the 285 billion for illegal immigrants legal enforcement and deportation, we can see that is about 1 third as much as it will be for the health care system at a cost of 900 billion. And if they are here illegally, why worry about legally deporting them. Still, $922 in new taxes for every man woman and child for the illegal problem works out to $2766 per every man woman and child for healthcare. If he used the total number of people in the country to determine that amount versus the number actually paying taxes, you are going to have to at least double it as most of the children do not pay taxes and a majority of the illegals do not pay taxes as they do not have a social security card and pay into it. And then there is everybody else on the public system that do not make enough to pay taxes or have tax shelters to keep them from paying taxes. On secind thought you will have to tripple or quadruple those numbers.



Marc2b -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 8:52:50 PM)

quote:

Marc, I was listening to The Howie Carr Show in Boston (WRKO-680) earlier and some of the callers were talking about establishing "sanctuary cities" against this new healthcare bill!
One caller said that the govt. doesn't enforce the laws against illegal aliens so "screw them!"
See what happens when we have laws that aren't enforced?


Nullification lives!




Marc2b -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 9:08:58 PM)

quote:

Only if you don't consider it to be worth it, and like someone else said, rather than trying to get them all at once, just deport them as found. I'm all for putting a minimum jail term too, a year in jail before deportation will make it harder for the people who come right back, and someone coming here primarily to send money home to their family as a primary breadwinner might hesitate before risking a year without any wages at all.


Deport them as found is pretty much the policy we have now – when people bother to enforce it. It hasn’t really been working to well.

quote:

Illegal immigrants working here often send a large portion of their pay back home to their home country. Americans would keep it in our economy.


A person’s contribution to the economy isn’t just how much they spend but also how much they produce and for how much.

quote:

Again, only if you do it all at once, and if fear of rioting would prevent a government from taking right action, it's no wonder that we're getting trampled on by people who think it's their right to work illegally in the US.


It is a question of: is the result worth the price? I don’t think it is.

quote:

In comparison to US citizens, illegal aliens detract from the economy, because they take capital out of the US and transfer it to another nation.


Covered.

quote:

As far as culture goes, let's just say I believe English should be the national language of the US. My immigrant ancestors all learned English very quickly and it's no harder to learn it from German or Czech than it is to learn it from Spanish. Living in a country with total immersion it should not take more than a few years to have a workable knowledge of the language.


Culture is not just language. It is also music and food and entertainment and more.


quote:

And as far as treating them badly...that depends on what we're doing. Would you say any other criminal is being treated badly if sent to jail? And if they're not sent to jail, and just sent to their country of origin, then we really haven't done anything to them, we've just put them right back where they started.


There is a difference between a guy whose crime is picking cabbage and a guy who is robbing houses.

quote:

Only if we offer amnesty to white illegals but not to non-white illegals. There are plenty of white illegal immigrants, mostly from Eastern Europe.


Plenty, perhaps, but still not the majority. When we talk about illegal immigration to the U.S. we are primarily talking about Mexicans.



Smutmonger -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 9:14:15 PM)

Put em in work camps for a few months after they get brought in....to pay off the taxes they never paid-confiscate thier stuff, and THEN send them south. And six months in jail for people caught paying them under the table. That would put a dent in it.




thornhappy -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 9:34:55 PM)

Those "good paying American jobs" are frequently less than minimum wage in the ag industry, and have very low pay with terrible conditions in the slaughterhouse industry.  Both industries like cheap help that can't complain about safety.
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Oh geeze, another one who believes the politically correct argument that we only have two choices, deport them all at once or amnesty. Guess why McAmnesty lost the election. Because almost half the conservatives realized McAmnesty's argument was intended to deceive you into believing his cock and bull story that we had no choice. Half the republicans wouldn't vote for him. The other half believed his bullshit.

In reality no one expects them to round them all up and deport them as quickly as possible. What we expect them to do is pass the everify system protecting American jobs, secure the border, and deport the ones we do catch up to in traffic stops or job raids. Eventually they will realize that they won't get away with taking the good paying American jobs, and they will never receive citizenship, and most will self deport.

On top of that we already have a guest worker plan for the growers. So don't give us the excuse that we won't have anyone to pick the crops.



Elisabella -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 9:37:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b


Deport them as found is pretty much the policy we have now – when people bother to enforce it. It hasn’t really been working to well.


True which is why I would be in favor of jail time as well.

quote:

A person’s contribution to the economy isn’t just how much they spend but also how much they produce and for how much.


This is true - generally speaking, the more a person earns, the more the economy is stimulated...people who are willing to work for less than minimum wage when minimum wage is already so low aren't helping, IMO. And someone who is willing to work at a job like agriculture or domestic labor, if paid a fair wage, will never get the chance to do so when employers are readily able to hire someone and pay them an unfair wage.

quote:

It is a question of: is the result worth the price? I don’t think it is.


Fair enough.

quote:

Culture is not just language. It is also music and food and entertainment and more.


This is true, but at the same time those things are also brought by legal immigrants who make an effort to bring them into US culture rather than remaining in enclaves of people from their home country.

quote:

There is a difference between a guy whose crime is picking cabbage and a guy who is robbing houses.


The only way to solve that would be to make every form of immigration legal, whether it goes through government channels or not. Saying something is a crime, but it should not be punished as a crime, makes no sense to me.
quote:


Plenty, perhaps, but still not the majority. When we talk about illegal immigration to the U.S. we are primarily talking about Mexicans.



Mexicans and Cubans are most likely to "sneak in" but there is also a large group of illegal immigrants that overstay a student or tourist visa, and they come from Europe, Africa and Asia. But either way it's still legal for people from Mexico to immigrate to the US - the problem isn't a race issue.



popeye1250 -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/25/2010 11:40:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b


Deport them as found is pretty much the policy we have now – when people bother to enforce it. It hasn’t really been working to well.


True which is why I would be in favor of jail time as well.

quote:

A person’s contribution to the economy isn’t just how much they spend but also how much they produce and for how much.


This is true - generally speaking, the more a person earns, the more the economy is stimulated...people who are willing to work for less than minimum wage when minimum wage is already so low aren't helping, IMO. And someone who is willing to work at a job like agriculture or domestic labor, if paid a fair wage, will never get the chance to do so when employers are readily able to hire someone and pay them an unfair wage.

quote:

It is a question of: is the result worth the price? I don’t think it is.


Fair enough.

quote:

Culture is not just language. It is also music and food and entertainment and more.


This is true, but at the same time those things are also brought by legal immigrants who make an effort to bring them into US culture rather than remaining in enclaves of people from their home country.

quote:

There is a difference between a guy whose crime is picking cabbage and a guy who is robbing houses.


The only way to solve that would be to make every form of immigration legal, whether it goes through government channels or not. Saying something is a crime, but it should not be punished as a crime, makes no sense to me.
quote:


Plenty, perhaps, but still not the majority. When we talk about illegal immigration to the U.S. we are primarily talking about Mexicans.



Mexicans and Cubans are most likely to "sneak in" but there is also a large group of illegal immigrants that overstay a student or tourist visa, and they come from Europe, Africa and Asia. But either way it's still legal for people from Mexico to immigrate to the US - the problem isn't a race issue.


And "Mexican" or "Hispanic" aren't "races." One is a nationality and the other is an ethnic group.
There's only three "races", "Negroid," "Mongoloid," and "Caucasoid."



Vendaval -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/26/2010 12:14:54 AM)

Fast Reply -

One reason for the declining enforcement of employer sanctions is the focus on security rather than labor laws since 9/11. INS is now part of the Dept. of Homeland Security.



Declining Enforcement, Competing Missions

"Throughout the 1990s and early 2000s, employer sanctions enforcement has been one of many missions competing for resources of staff and funding. Shifting priorities within the INS/ICE may explain the declining levels of sanction enforcement.

In 1994, the INS announced its southwest border strategy, which included the well-known "Operation Gatekeeper" in San Diego as well as a number of similar operations in other Border Patrol districts. By 1996, the INS had shifted Border Patrol agents previously assigned to interior enforcement (including employer sanctions) to border enforcement.

Then, in 1999, the INS adopted a new interior enforcement strategy that listed "block and remove employers' access to undocumented workers" as the last of five interior enforcement priorities. The strategy called for focusing resources on those cases with a "clear nexus between alien smuggling and the employment of unauthorized workers," which implies a loss of resources for investigations at worksites not implicated in alien smuggling (another of the five priorities).

Most recently, after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, worksite enforcement took on a "National Security Focus," meaning that it was overwhelmingly directed at employers (especially subcontractors) placing workers at sites such as airports ("Operation Tarmac"), nuclear power plants ("Operation Glowworm"), and military bases.

Again, such a focus meant a loss of resources for enforcement at workplaces without national security significance, such as restaurants, hotels, garment factories, and farms. As one might imagine, after the reorganization of the INS into the Department of Homeland Security, worksite enforcement has continued to be heavily focused on national security. "

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1999/gg99033.pdf


(format editing)



tazzygirl -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/26/2010 2:11:33 AM)

quote:

They need them in the SS system its a pay as you go system just like the monetary supply it needs more people at all times to make the motor run or the whole shit mess crashes and burns.


If previous administrations hadnt borrowed from SS, we may not need illegals to pay into it now.



eyesopened -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/26/2010 4:34:02 AM)

FR-

First, I'd like to know which jobs US citizens won't do for minimum wage?  Picking lettuce?  Yeah, there are plenty of US workers who will do that.  Most of the people I work with work two minimum wage jobs and feel lucky to have them. 

Second, if my neighbor needs a place to stay because her house burned down and she's waiting to get it rebuild, she is welcome at my house and I'll do everything I can to help her.  But what if she decides my house is nicer than the one she had and figures she'll just stay? 

My opinion is... don't break and enter my home, don't break and enter my country.

What if I came home to find my bathroom window slit and some guy sitting in my livingroom?  He tells me it's okay because he mowed the lawn and cleaned the litter box, jobs I won't do.  But wait, I gave those jobs to my kids to earn their allowance.  Now my kids aren't doing those jobs but they still have expenses.  I tell my neighbor about this guy who just broke into my house.  Should I call the cops?  All he did was do some needed chores.  My kids are complaining that they aren't getting their allowance anymore.  She calls me a racist.

At home, the guy tells me he has a home in another subdivision but their homeowner's association is for crap and my house is nicer.  He's gonna stay and then bring his wife and kids as soon as he earns enough from the kids' allowances to move them over.  As it is, he's using the money I'm paying him to pay for the wife and kids in his other house.  Yesterday I got a hospital bill for when he cut his finger on the hedge-clipper.  He listed me as the responsible party.  I gotta pay that now.  I got mad and called the cops and they just sent him to his house but today he's back.  My neighbor told me I was mean-spirited.

Now I've got the whole family living in my house.  The guys still does the chores and frankly he's really good at them but his wife and kids don't do any chores and it's really getting me depressed.  I found out that a lot of homes in my subdivision have had the same home invasions but our homeowner's assocation said it wasn't worth calling the cops about it because it would raise our taxes and they'd also have to up our association fees.

What do I do?



popeye1250 -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/26/2010 12:17:44 PM)

Eyes, and Obama wants us to have "more" of that kind of thing?
When do bankrobbers and rapists get "de-criminalised?" If we don't enforce our laws we'll go back to the "wild west days"
Let's see here, we have a president who's a lawyer who doesn't want to enforce our laws,.....does that make sense to anyone?



Vendaval -> RE: Cost of immigration enforcement and deportation. (3/26/2010 4:04:30 PM)

Popeye, you are not doing yourself a service by comparing illegal immigrants to violent criminals. I know you feel very strongly about this issue. I am being pragmatic here.



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