Outcry over the Popes visit.

Outcry over the Popes visit. (Full Version)

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Politesub53 -> Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 12:52:02 PM)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8586255.stm The Orange Order in Northern Ireland are against the Popes visit to England, Wales and Scotland, on the grounds of religious belief. It is shamefull that in this day and age bigotry seems to win out over tolerance. If you are going to be against the Popes visit over anything, make it be about the cover up of child abuse. Not the fact that the Catholic and Protestant faiths differ. The hate filled marches and continued religious violence are a disgrace to all involved.

pahunkboy -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 1:13:44 PM)
that guy gives me the creeps.

LadyEllen -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 1:19:13 PM)
The Orange Orders are against just about anything that doesnt fit with the views of the Orange Orders though, including the very existence of Catholics let alone anything Catholics might think, say or do. Let us not forget that it was the Orange Orders' control of life in Ulster that sparked the Catholics to rise up in the 1960s to ask for civil rights, following the example of the black civil rights movement in the US. And it was that same control that resulted in Catholics facing violence and repression from the state for being so bold - and that then touched off the most recent round of troubles in N Ireland, with the Republican movement taking up violence to defend their people and advance their cause in the face of a province controlled by not just the nominal enemy but people who saw Catholics as subhuman. Thank goodness for the progress of recent years and God damn them who condemn others in His name. E

Aneirin -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 1:34:45 PM)
Yes, nowhere has there been such violence commited in the name of religion in recent years, quite possibly growing up going to school, coming home and catching the news about the continuing troubles in Ireland between the protestants and the catholics quite possibly contributed to the fact that I quit the family religion of Roman Catholic and labelled myself pagan. I remember, I was that fed up with it all, and guess what, the local catholic priest was not too impressed with me leaving the fold and went on to tell me what happened to heathens in the past. Looking back, a religion based upon scare tactics, submit to the control of the church or be damned. As far as I am concerned, Mr Ratzinger can stay away, for he is the head of a bunch of child molesters and bullies, when he does something positive about all those who are known to be paedophiles in the church, and invites the authorities to deal with them as in accordance to the law of the land, I will only then consider having respect for the guy.

pahunkboy -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 1:37:02 PM)
that is so odd to have friction between Catholics and Protestants.

LadyEllen -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 1:42:59 PM)
How so Hunky? It was a painful schism, extremely violent, there was a 30 year war over it (some of which played into our Civil War and what followed from that to influence the US), and the division exists for real even today in places. E

Aneirin -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 1:49:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy that is so odd to have friction between Catholics and Protestants. Why ? I grew up with it, many my age and older grew up hearing about bombings and shootings by catholics and protestants in Ireland, in fact, as far back as I can remember, terrorism was always an issue in Britain, we were under threat from terrorists long before the present fanatical islamic threat, which might go some way to explain why Britons are not so wound up about the situation as it affects us now. Main land England has suffered at the hands of the IRA, we have had shootings and indiscriminate bombings, citizens have been murdered for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time and whilst all that was going on, shoppers being blown to bits on a saturday morning, horse parades bombed, we used to think of the terrorists being funded by our allies.

Politesub53 -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 2:01:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy that is so odd to have friction between Catholics and Protestants. Not if you study the history of Catholics and Protestants going back to Europes middle ages.

pahunkboy -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 4:25:14 PM)
...the 2 groups seem to get along in the US. the 2 groups seem more alike then different. the idea of a clash is pretty rare- to ....well- someone in the US. it is hard to comprehend. racial tension, is more of an issue- then this. (in the US) I guess I should just be happy we dont have that conflict.

pahunkboy -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 4:26:52 PM)
PS- people would object to a pope visit here too.

Moonhead -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 4:31:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy PS- people would object to a pope visit here too. You fuckers object to everything. That's hardly a surprise.

Real0ne -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 4:34:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8586255.stm The Orange Order in Northern Ireland are against the Popes visit to England, Wales and Scotland, on the grounds of religious belief. It is shamefull that in this day and age bigotry seems to win out over tolerance. If you are going to be against the Popes visit over anything, make it be about the cover up of child abuse. Not the fact that the Catholic and Protestant faiths differ. The hate filled marches and continued religious violence are a disgrace to all involved. so is the continued slaughter of the muslims over money and oil but you support that.

slvemike4u -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 4:39:55 PM)
PA less (please take note all potential flames,I said less not none)Religious influence on government...equates to less reason for conflict.

LadyEllen -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 4:41:33 PM)
Oh no RO! If you asked any representative sample of Brits you'd find the vast majority to be at clear variance with our national diplomatic and foreign policies. E

Politesub53 -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:10:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 so is the continued slaughter of the muslims over money and oil but you support that. Show me a post where I have said that you arsehole, or is this another attempt at baiting. Anyone on the right who has argued with me on the issue will know you are spouting crap as per usual. I guess you are still unhappy because I nailed you as a racist.

Elisabella -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:17:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy ...the 2 groups seem to get along in the US. the 2 groups seem more alike then different. the idea of a clash is pretty rare- to ....well- someone in the US. it is hard to comprehend. racial tension, is more of an issue- then this. (in the US) I guess I should just be happy we dont have that conflict. Look up a bit of the history of how Protestantism started in England, and the alternating between a Protestant King who would murder all Catholics, a Catholic Queen that would murder all Protestants, and then another Protestant Queen who would murder all Catholics and you'll see that it's just as much a sore spot for them as slavery is for the US.

DomKen -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:24:00 PM)
Not that I agree with the Orange Order on most things but if you consider the Pope as just the head of state of the Vatican I think a strong case can be made for barring him from civilized nations. 1.opposing the distribution of condoms and so increasing large families in poor countries and the spread of AIDS 2.promoting segregated education 3.denying abortion to even the most vulnerable women 4.opposing equal rights for lesbians, gay, bisexual and transgender people 5.failing to address the many cases of abuse of children within its own organisation. 6.rehabilitating the holocaust denier bishop Richard Williamson and the appeaser of Hitler, the war-time Pope, Pius XII. 7.The state of which the Pope is the head has also resisted signing many major human rights treaties and has formed its own treaties (‘concordats’) with many states which negatively affect the human rights of citizens of those states. http://www.protest-the-pope.org.uk/

Politesub53 -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:24:53 PM)
It isnt even that simple, Henry VIII wanted to remain Catholic, but had burnt his bridges to a degree. There was also the fact that Catholic France and Spain wanted to control Europe. So there are several influences on the whole situation.

pahunkboy -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:26:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy ...the 2 groups seem to get along in the US. the 2 groups seem more alike then different. the idea of a clash is pretty rare- to ....well- someone in the US. it is hard to comprehend. racial tension, is more of an issue- then this. (in the US) I guess I should just be happy we dont have that conflict. Look up a bit of the history of how Protestantism started in England, and the alternating between a Protestant King who would murder all Catholics, a Catholic Queen that would murder all Protestants, and then another Protestant Queen who would murder all Catholics and you'll see that it's just as much a sore spot for them as slavery is for the US. Fair enough. I had not thought of it.

Politesub53 -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:27:42 PM)
Ken, I dont think it is right that you can bar the religious leader of many of our citizens from entering the UK. Even if I agree with several points on your list.

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