RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling Muslim to 'take a camel' as alternative to fly

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RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 5:27:09 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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I think you're splitting hairs, so let's just agree to disagree.

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(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 21

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 5:31:15 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I think you're splitting hairs, so let's just agree to disagree.

That works. To me freedom of speech is something that should be used responsibly, it's not freedom to lie (slander), or freedom to steal (copyright), it's freedom to express an unpopular belief, even freedom to hate, so long as you're not directly encouraging violence.

I might not agree with a racist sexist homophobe but if anyone tries to tell one that he can't express his opinion, I'll fight tooth and nail for him to be able to do so.

It's one of the things I miss most about living in the US, actually...Australia does not have freedom of speech.

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 22

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 5:45:09 PM

RootIsGod666

Posts: 3
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline

The limitations on "Free Speech" in the US is basically when the speech leads to the direct harm of others (and no, your feelings getting hurt does not count as harm). For example: If I was to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater when there was not one, and due to people believing My lie someone was injured in the ensuing stampede to get out of the building , then I am the one held responsible for the harm done to them under the law. On the other hand if I was to yell "Fire" in other contexts, the outcome is likely to be somewhat different. It's not the yelling of "Fire" (in this case) that is the issue. It's what happens as a result of Me yelling it that may matter to the law. Same with defamation of character cases.

It is not the speech it's self that's punishable, but the results of the speech the the law is designed to punish.

FYI: IANAL

(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 23

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 5:49:39 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Threats of violence (terrorism? ) forced the cancellation of Coulter's right to practice free speech in Ottowa, Canada:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOP_kbU7XxA&feature=player_embedded#

If you can call what Canadians have "a right to free speech". Thats entirely debatable.

You obviously seem to think using racist insults in acceptable.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 24

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 5:51:59 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

You obviously seem to think using racist insults in acceptable.

I know you answered for Sanity, but I'll answer this since I support free speech too - I think using racist insults is completely unacceptable. I also very strongly feel that "I don't like it and I disagree" is not a good enough reason to make something illegal.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 25

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 5:52:34 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

Ive never found I have had to worry about the results of the restriction on hate....sooooo I cant say I miss anything ...
now if there was a restriction on "evil sadistic bitch tormenting her pet" wording, I might have an issue with it.
Id like a world with less hate and more desire

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(in reply to RootIsGod666)

Post #: 26

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 5:54:03 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Ive never found I have had to worry about the results of the restriction on hate....sooooo I cant say I miss anything ...
now if there was a restriction on "evil sadistic bitch tormenting her pet" wording, I might have an issue with it.
Id like a world with less hate and more desire

IMO, your reaction to free speech only matters when the speech is something you disagree with. It doesn't take an activist to think that something they agree with should be legal.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 27

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 5:55:50 PM

zephyroftheNorth

Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Threats of violence (terrorism? ) forced the cancellation of Coulter's right to practice free speech in Ottowa, Canada:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOP_kbU7XxA&feature=player_embedded#

If you can call what Canadians have "a right to free speech". Thats entirely debatable.

You obviously seem to think using racist insults in acceptable.

Ps.....sweetie.....look who you're talking to

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(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 28

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 6:02:11 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

It's all good: America basks in the glow of its First Amendment, and the rest of the uncivilised world puts restrictions on hate speech. Coming from a place where skinheads ran rampant within the confines of my university (eventually, I left and crossed over the pond to my other country, where it was far more peaceful), and targeted me as a person to direct their antisemitic shit at, I actually quite like restrictions on spewing hateful bullshit and calls for racial violence - certainly, in Europe, where democracy demolishers used the platform of democracy to build the most anti-democratic regimes ever, it's been a necessary thing.

Each country to its own, however, keep this in mind... the First Amendment does not make America morally superior to any other nation.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 3/25/2010 6:07:47 PM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 6:04:47 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

I think people need to take chill pills. If I had a Muslim in my face demanding to know how to get somewhere if they can't fly then I might tell him to take a camel as well. How is that worse than calling Ann Coulter "Mann Coulter" or George Bush "monkey boy".

Who can forget the term "Caribou Barbie"? Not exactly a term of endearment, is it.

Its not. In fact I've seen a lot worse on these boards directed at me and I just shrug it off.

They're words. Man up, dry your eyes and get over it. If we're going to allow others to dictate who may or may not speak because you don't like their tone or their politics or their stance on Islamic fundamentalists then pretty soon we won't be able to exchange ideas at all, and thats not the kind of world that anyone in their right mind would want to live in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
You obviously seem to think using racist insults in acceptable.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/25/2010 6:08:27 PM >

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(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 30

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 6:06:52 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

winks at Mike
I havent been to LI since a L.I.F.E event about seven years ago, sighs.

High time you return....the quality of slaves has improved so very much!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 31

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 6:07:06 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I think people need to take chill pills. If I had a Muslim in my face demanding to know how to get somewhere if they can't fly then I might tell him to take a camel as well. How is that worse than calling Ann Coulter "Mann Coulter" or George Bush "monkey boy".

Exactly - if "hate speech" weren't limited to "hating someone's gender, race, or religion" and actually extended to ALL forms of HATE speech, I don't think anyone would support the laws.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 32

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 6:09:37 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Ive never found I have had to worry about the results of the restriction on hate....sooooo I cant say I miss anything ...
now if there was a restriction on "evil sadistic bitch tormenting her pet" wording, I might have an issue with it.
Id like a world with less hate and more desire

IMO, your reaction to free speech only matters when the speech is something you disagree with. It doesn't take an activist to think that something they agree with should be legal.

meh.. I dislike hate..take from it what you will. it isnt going to affect me any.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 33

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 6:11:10 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's all good: America basks in the glow of its First Amendment, and the rest of the uncivilised world puts restrictions on hate speech. Coming from a place where skinheads ran rampant within the confines of my university (eventually, I left and crossed over the pond to my other country, where it was far more peaceful), and targeted me as a person to direct their antisemitic shit at, I actually quite like restrictions on spewing hateful bullshit and calls for racial violence - certainly, in Europe, where democracy demolishers used the platform of democracy to build the most anti-democratic regimes ever, it's been a necessary thing.

Each country to its own, however, keep this in mind... the First Amendment does not make America morally superior to any other nation.

Actuall Kittin calls to incite violence,whether racial or otherwise is against the law here.Free speech stops at the point where it's consequences are violent acts.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 34

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 6:11:27 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
If I had a Muslim in my face demanding to know how to get somewhere if they can't fly then I might tell him to take a camel as well.

Can you imagine how low you've sunk rofl? You no longer think in terms of individuals, but in terms of "Muslims" and "the rest of us". It's truly very, very sad - perhaps it's Coulteritis, but whatever it is... there must be a cure of it...

A little bit of love, perhaps?

_____________________________

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 35

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 6:11:39 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

You dislike hate? You obviously mean, when you're not the one who's spewing it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

meh.. I dislike hate..take from it what you will. it isnt going to affect me any.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/25/2010 6:12:01 PM >

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(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 36

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 6:13:57 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I think people need to take chill pills. If I had a Muslim in my face demanding to know how to get somewhere if they can't fly then I might tell him to take a camel as well. How is that worse than calling Ann Coulter "Mann Coulter" or George Bush "monkey boy".

Exactly - if "hate speech" weren't limited to "hating someone's gender, race, or religion" and actually extended to ALL forms of HATE speech, I don't think anyone would support the laws.

If it works for you two then feel free. Personally I am glad we have laws against hate speech.

(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 37

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 6:14:58 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I think people need to take chill pills. If I had a Muslim in my face demanding to know how to get somewhere if they can't fly then I might tell him to take a camel as well. How is that worse than calling Ann Coulter "Mann Coulter" or George Bush "monkey boy".

Who can forget the term "Caribou Barbie"? Not exactly a term of endearment, is it.

Its not. In fact I've seen a lot worse on these boards directed at me and I just shrug it off.

They're words. Man up, dry your eyes and get over it. If we're going to allow others to dictate who may or may not speak because you don't like their tone or their politics or their stance on Islamic fundamentalists then pretty soon we won't be able to exchange ideas at all, and thats not the kind of world that anyone in their right mind would want to live in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
You obviously seem to think using racist insults in acceptable.

Your comparisons just don't hold water Sanity(big suprise there,heh) on the one hand you have generic insults,perhaps inspired by ideology or some other motivation...and on the other you have racial and cultural inspiration for the insult.That is quite simply referred to as hate speech and it's origins are rooted in bigotry.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 3/25/2010 6:15:32 PM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 38

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 6:16:03 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Actuall Kittin calls to incite violence,whether racial or otherwise is against the law here.Free speech stops at the point where it's consequences are violent acts.

Saying "all Muslims are terrorists", "Jews are thieves and murder Christian babies", and "the Holocaust didn't happen", are actually calls to violence and racial hatred. It's just that in the States, it's accepted. In other places, it isn't. I don't see why it's always Americans that go up in arms over how speech is supposedly restricted elsewhere: if they're happy with their first amendment, why do they give a flying fuck :-) ? Oh, hold on... it's when their Michael Savage and Ann Coulter get their "speech restricted" by evil Canada, France and England that they start whining

.

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(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 39

RE: Ann Coulter causes firestorm in Canada by telling M... - 3/25/2010 6:17:05 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Don't try to feed me that garbage, I've seen your best buds bashing Christians, some of them (not you obviously) bashing Jews...

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Can you imagine how low you've sunk rofl? You no longer think in terms of individuals, but in terms of "Muslims" and "the rest of us". It's truly very, very sad - perhaps it's Coulteritis, but whatever it is... there must be a cure of it...

A little bit of love, perhaps?

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 40

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