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Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and the ugly - 3/26/2010 8:18:23 AM   
Andalusite


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I'm generally very polite and reasonable and analytical and all that. One of the things I love about D/s and BDSM is that it tends to encourage me to live with passionate intensity, sparks intense emotions that are positive, negative, or all roiled together in bittersweetness. In the "one strike" thread, a lot of people expressed that defiance would mean that the relationship was over, and that trust was broken, and in the "should rebellion be punished" thread, rebellion was also explored a bit.

I haven't generally felt either of those two emotions, and can usually discuss my feelings after the fact, but I think of both rebellion and defiance as fairly normal possible reactions to some of the deep, difficult things we get into, the ones that scare us or are linked to bad experiences we've had. To me, threatening to break up with someone for having a short term (during the scene or experience, possibly extending a day or two like sub drop) very negative emotion is like threatening to break up with someone if they get accidentally burned during fireplay. It's a known, possible risk of that sort of order, of that sort of play, and should be handled with reassurance and care, just as with fireplay, you keep water and a fire extinguisher handy just in case.

I feel a little awkward about making this comparison, but my relationship with my Master, in doing the things that he wants me to that I'm scared of, reminds me of this passage. "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies" Even when I am going into those dark places, that scare me, that I've been terrified by before, I feel reassured by his guidance, and yes, even by knowing that he will punish me if necessary. I know that he will support me and encourage me as I face the things I fear, and be proud of me as I triumph over them.

I've felt a lot of different emotions over the years associated with BDSM and D/s, at different times. I've been lost in primal, animalistic, feral scenes with aggression and fear and anger, I've been playful and silly and bubbling with laughter, I've hung on with grim determination and toughness, and revelled in a golden glow where *nothing* hurt, even hitting my head hard enough to get a knot that hurt for a week afterward. If I did respond in a really bad way, emotionally, to something my Master wants of me, we'd sort it out once I was coherent and able to think straight again, not in the heat of the moment. We'd then work together to figure out what was the bad trigger, and how I can give him what he wants, maybe take some baby steps to get there.

I've had adrenaline overload hit and reacted in ways I didn't expect and didn't have much conscious control over at the time - reacting on reflex. Most were vanilla, and years ago, but I do try to warn anyone I get involved with, or play with, that it's *possible* for me to respond that way. One time, someone scared me so badly that I ran straight up him (with him standing up) like a cat, leaving footprints from just above his knee to his collarbone, tucked into a ball, and landed in a martial arts stance, ready to fight. No way I could do that move deliberately! I hit someone in the head with something heavy, when I was enraged by him being physically abusive to an animal. I kicked someone in the crotch when he pinched my bottom - not aiming, but that's where my foot happened to land. I've run through a crowd, missing people by inches, and run out of an apartment barefoot, leaving my keys and purse behind. In a class where I stunt-bottomed once, I almost got frightened badly enough to pull away and run across the room, but barely managed to control it.

When I get tickled, I can't always control my body. I haven't done anything violent, but I've fallen out of bed, thwacked my head or limbs on the wall, and discovered that vampire gloves and sharp knives tickle me to the point where it's difficult not to thrash around in hysterical giggles, which wasn't exactly the effect they were going for.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that one of the reasons I do BDSM and D/s is that it gives me a relatively safe way to experience and express all of these emotions, even the negative ones. I thought it was a little strange that some people feel that a brief negative reaction to something that really pushes their buttons is considered so unacceptable or surprising! So, how do you stay able to talk rationally and analytically when you can barely speak, how do you handle the emotions when they are boiling over, how do you handle being so scared that the adrenaline coursing through your body practically puts you on autopilot briefly?
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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/26/2010 8:50:08 AM   
DesFIP


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I'm not expected to be rational and logical and calm when I'm overwhelmed by emotion. The time for that is after. Usually a day or two later when I've had some time to consider everything.

As he isn't interested in having me terrified, he stops pushing if that's the response he gets. I get comfort and again, we discuss it once I can think again.

I also don't understand people who want to evoke primal emotions and then punish the person who has one. You play with fire, you expect to get burned. Rebellion, resistance here are signs that I'm afraid. His response is to drop it for several months while he works on something else and we go back to it after I've hopefully had some sort of epiphany. And if he gets the same response, he drops it again. But I don't get punished for having emotions.


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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/26/2010 9:18:53 AM   
windchymes


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYV-JSjpyU

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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/26/2010 9:39:21 AM   
UniqueRaven


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i will say that the over-arching difference between what you post here and the way some others behave is this: emotional maturity.

You are mature enough to understand and accept and verbalize that you will have emotions at times that will cause you to behave in instinctive, impulsive, and sometimes rebellious ways - and you are able to discuss and deal with those behaviors in a positive, constructive fashion after-the-fact with the support of your caring Master.

Not everyone is able to be that mature. Blame, doubt, fear, anger, sadness, guilt - these are all emotions that can kill a relationship. And if someone isn't mature enough to internalize, accept, and express those emotions in a mature fashion, and be responsible for their outcome and work in a constructive fashion with his/her partner - in whatever works for them - then they're going to have a tough time maintaining a favourable place in the relationship.

i tend to fall into the "feel the fear and do it anyway" camp of obedience - i have faced a LOT in my life, and have learned that most things that people are afraid of are really insignificant when you view the big picture. But can i lose it and flip out and outright rebel in a situation that pushes me to that point? Absolutely. We all have those triggers. The key for me when faced with such rebellion is being absolutely honest with my Owner about my thoughts and feelings - even when it's hard - and then working through them with him, and submitting to his desires for a solution.

i can't paint with a broad brush and say "yes, one strike of rebellion and she's out" or "all rebellion requires understanding, not punishment" or anything else so categorical. It's just not accurate, or right - these are case-by-case discussions we're having here. i will say, though, that both parties in the relationship (Dom and sub) deserve respect, and care, and understanding - and forgiveness.

Beyond that i can't contribute any more, other than positive thoughts and kindness and hopes that everyone can figure out where they are on their individual life's journey with D/s, and that they're happy doing so.

_____________________________

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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/26/2010 10:14:27 AM   
HisSweetElysium


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One of the things that set my Master apart from the other men I considered was His ability, no DEMAND that I share all my emotions with Him, the good, the bad and the ugly. My fears, doubts, insecurities, everything.  He does not want me to push a single thing down, and He will not leave me, that much He has made very clear. 

This is a HUGE thing to me; my exhusband used to threaten divorce about once a month, any time he didn't get his way, pretty much.  I warned him time and time again he was undermining the security of the relationship, but to no avail.  As a result, I have a VERY hard time articulating my feelings and emotions, for fear of judgment, condemnation, rejection or abandonment.  I know this intellectually, but in practice, when I'm hurt, scared or upset, I can't just "let it go".  It's taken the patience and support of my Master to allow myself to trust Him.  Different occasions of Him patiently talking it out of me, whatever is wrong, and, even if it seems like a criticism or complaint in it's nature, He doesn't get angry, He doesn't judge, He doesn't withdraw, and most of all, He doesn't leave. 

Each time He "weathered the storm" of my emotions and was still there, holding me, I trusted Him more.  Now it's easier for me to express myself, because I KNOW He will not reject me, I KNOW He will help and take care of me. 

No, I'm not looking for Him to solve all my problems, I really don't have many, actually, I just happen to be pretty self aware, and have the desire to improve.  I don't think that if you have a question in your heart, or a doubt, a situation where your Master expects you to just sublimate that is a healthy thing at ALL.  You may not want to have them, but wanting something doesn't make it so if you're honest.

And perhaps it possible over time to get to the point where you NEVER EVER question or doubt, but honestly going into a relationship I'd be lying to myself if I adopted that stance, and I think a lot of other people would be doing the same.  

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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/26/2010 12:26:08 PM   
CreativeDominant


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Some good words so far in this thread.  Let me, just for a bit, go over some things that can create problems...

Communication issues:  There are some people that talk in short paragraphs.  There are others...I am one of the first I think of (no surprise to anyone who knows Me)...who lay things out from all angles.  There are others who fall somewhere along this spectrum.  One of the most difficult things to learn to do is change your way of communication.  One reason I talk about issues from so many angles is because it gives me a chance, in stating them, to stop my own mind from running around itself in circles.  Additionally, I was trained as a doctor to be open to more than one diagnosis for a problem, whether it be a physical or mental or emotional problem.  I tend to do the same with my relationships...sometimes to the point of others saying "Just let it flow".  While I am beginning to recognize the need to shorten things up sometimes and I am beginning to recognize the fact that some things do NOT need to be examined from every angle, it is hard to break through years of doing things in a certain way.  I've gotten better...but not there yet.  The important thing, to ME anyway?  I've made the effort and have, at least partially, begun to succeed.  My point?  Tis difficult when you deal with people who want things done a different way than you are used to, especially when their own emotions are simmering BUT...in my mind, anyway...there has to be a recognition that this is what the other person does sometimes---whether short or long or a mix--- and determine which is more important:  the fact that they are communicating or the irritation you feel at the way they do so.  Also, whether their way of communicating addresses the issue or something that has nothing to do with what is going on.

Emotional issues:  Again, people run the gamut.  Some people block their emotions, some people overly emote, some people just do not allow themselves to feel deeply of their emotional landscape and others just do not HAVE a deeply emotional landscape.  Many times, people do not feel the same about something as their partner does...example:  what pisses me off might not raise anything more than a shrug from my partner whereas what makes her go into a rant and rage session might make me just shake my head and laugh disgustedly.  Another example:  there are things that create various levels of happiness/sadness/anger/hurt/etc. in me but might not in another person...not because they are the wrong triggers but because that person's emotions are, while not shallow, within a much narrower band.  Finally:  I might come up against a person who would think I was shallow or within a narrow band because their emotions are all over the board in terms of levels of feeling.  How do you deal with this?  Again...one of the best ways is communication about these differences and being willing to compromise to a certain extent on the level of emotion expressed by both parties.

My final point is this:  Doesn't a lot of this come down, once more, to being able to recognize our differences and accept and embrace them?  That is not to say you have to accept everyone...sometimes there is just too much difference in too many areas...looks, social/financial status, maturity, etc., etc..  But I am a believer in the idea that I don't want a "clone" of me:  I enjoy the differences even as they frustrate me, I savor the differences even as they anger or sadden or hurt me.  Why?  Because I know that with work...a word disliked by many in relationships and yet something that most folks, from therapists to ministers to friends,  realize comes with a relationship...and empathy for the other (being able to take what you know about someone and guage how they might feel/think/react to your actions) and acceptance that not everything can or should be perfect, many times what seems wrecked can be salvaged.

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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/26/2010 12:42:47 PM   
dreamerdreaming


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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYV-JSjpyU



Thank you! 

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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/26/2010 2:01:31 PM   
Justme696


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emotions in the lifestyle are the same as outside...because I am the same person
( sorry..bit of a short answer)

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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/26/2010 7:54:19 PM   
Andalusite


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
I also don't understand people who want to evoke primal emotions and then punish the person who has one.

That's exactly what I was trying to express.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven
You are mature enough to understand and accept and verbalize that you will have emotions at times that will cause you to behave in instinctive, impulsive, and sometimes rebellious ways - and you are able to discuss and deal with those behaviors in a positive, constructive fashion after-the-fact with the support of your caring Master.

Thank you! I really put a lot of effort into D/s - I don't think it can work well without a reasonable amount of emotional maturity and self-awareness. Honestly, though, I don't think that a "one strike and you're out" rule would solve a basic problem of Peter Pan/brat syndrome, or make communication automatically more effective.

For the most part, even if I'm scared or uncomfortable, I do try to do it anyway. Actually, that's a fairly big chunk of what I tend to think of as actual submission, vs. being cooperative and obedient - how I respond to a request or order that is difficult for me. Back when my Master and I were first dating, maybe the 4th or 5th date, I specifically requested that he come up with something to test my response to this, because I was concerned that if I didn't find that I wanted to push my self and please him, that I could not give him what he needed. There's a huge difference between being a cooperative bottom and a slave or a submissive, at least to me.

Elysium, you obviously have a very wise and caring Master! The more you've shared about him, the more impressed I am.

CD, I agree a certain amount of compromise on both communication and expression of emotions is essential, though hopefully the people involved will be reasonably compatible to begin with.

Justme, I agree that most of the emotions are the same, but they tend to be handled differently in a D/s relationship than in an egalitarian kinky relationship, for example. I haven't had a vanilla relationship in over 15 years, so it's hard to make a direct comparison. If I'm uncomfortable or scared by something when there isn't D/s involved, unless it completely takes me by surprise in the moment, I generally don't have to deal with it in my relationships. Obviously, life still throws things at everyone that we'd rather not do, but that's different from actively embracing them.

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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/26/2010 8:13:19 PM   
takemeforyourown


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So much of D/s and BDSM are completely new to me that I expect to have feelings of discomfort, unease, even fear and distaste (not to mention pain). If I ever shared myself with someone who couldn't accept my spectrum of reactions, that would be the last time I ever played with him.

(in reply to Andalusite)
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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/26/2010 10:02:27 PM   
kyraofMists


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Still waters run deep would be an extremely accurate description for mine and Alandra's emotions. We feel things very deeply and have extremely strong emotions. However, the expression of our emotions is very subtle. His expectations of how we express our emotions is very strict.

The one place that we are free to express ourselves is in play. The only rule during play is that we are to just let go and react. If he doesn't like the reaction then he will do what he needs to to control it or channel it in a direction that he does want to go.

Outside of play is a whole different set of rules. However, it doesn't mean I can't have a bad day, being upset, get angry, cry.... I just have to express those emotions in a way that is constructive to our relationship and not destructive to it.

Today, I had a really crappy day at work and knew that this evening was going to be very draining for me. I knew I needed to get out the negative emotions from work as quickly as possible and get in the right head space for the rest of the evening. In the five minutes from work to home, I vented to Alandra. When we pulled up in the driveway, he was outside and he could see from the look on my face that I was upset. "What's wrong" were the words out of his mouth before I even shut the car off. I told him... he let me vent a little bit and then he let me know that I needed to let it go and move on. He interacted with me in a way that he knew could put me in a different mindset if I was willing to follow his lead and I did. I moved on and didn't allow the day to have a negative impact on my evening with the family.

For us, it is about what is best for our relationship. Do I express my emotions in a way that is constructive or desctructive to our relationship? Do I express emotions that are not valid or based on an accurate perception on the events? Do I allow my emotions to control my behavior or do I use my behavior to control my emotions? What is my motivation for expressing my emotions? These are the questions that I ask myself when my emotions are reaching the boiling point.

In play... I don't think; I just react. That is how he wants it.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/26/2010 11:14:02 PM   
MasterXMagnum


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Being a Master, for me, has been about knowing your slave. I'm a good listener, I suppose, and very curious about the places inside my slave; what her past holds, how she came to be drawn to surrender and giving of control, the good, bad, and ugly of her past relationships.

To paraphrase what has been noted quite eruditely by more than a few here, when someone has the wheel, he better have a map to know what roads he's on. If he gets on a bad one, he has only himself to blame <gender chosen but of course applies across genders>.

I love going to the edges. It is, indeed, where the id meets the ego, where our primal natures run against our rational one. And it's where real surrender can happen. And a horrible crash as well! It's tough management, but if you want to be in charge, then you'd best know what you're dealing with. I've role-played out childhood bogeys, worked through squidges and paranoias, it IS delicate work, but with proper preparation and honest caring about what you're putting on your slave/property/sub/other-identification-inserted-here, and some good communication regarding where and what you have in mind (again as previously noted), that you actually listen to, then some REALLY great results can happen. Pre-care, after-care, especially when the going is going to be heavy and deep, is hopefully a given, with honest and open give-and-take on fear vs desires vs goals.

A lot of people, I believe, concern themselves a bit much about staying "in character" while engrossed in a journey. I think you can still be Masterful while being compassionate to a hard rush of negative reaction. A calming hush, a gentling hand, an embrace that conveys real love and concern. It's doable. You just have to keep in mind what your slave needs you to be at that moment.

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Criticizing is easy, art is difficult.

The only time you run out of chances is when you stop taking them.

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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/27/2010 12:08:18 AM   
Justme696


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quote:

A lot of people, I believe, concern themselves a bit much about staying "in character" while engrossed in a journey


I noticed that too.
I don't get why some people change as person suddenly when they are with their sub/slave. Are you who you are...in and outside the bdsm thingy?
Meaningit is not a job or role that you switch off.

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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/27/2010 12:21:32 AM   
catize


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It is not what you say but how you say it.........and perhaps when you say it.
I have a very stressful job. It is difficult to make people understand what my days are like. I get slammed with numerous crisis (what is the plural of crisis?) people in emotional pain and sometimes dealing with them is literally a matter of life and death. Imagine getting 2 of those type calls in a 5 minute time period at least once a week, while at the same time my other line is ringing and someone is at my door calling my name. So, yes, I need and am allowed to 'decompress' in several chosen ways. One, I can call him during the day; it has become a little joke when I say, 'splain to me again how I'm s'posed to let go of my stress? Another way is that I can talk about it as long as I need to while giving him a foot massage. He gets a great and lengthy massage and I get it out of my system. And other times I don't want to talk about it and I simply lose myself in serving him. That gets me out of myself and I find it soothing to do his will.
But I would never consider striking at him verbally or physically, I would never consider excusing disobedient or recalcitrant behaviors because of my mood. Submitting to his will, abiding by my agreement to give him the authority in our relationship, puts me back in balance and is, in my experience, what I need to alleviate anxiety.

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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/27/2010 12:26:12 AM   
MasterXMagnum


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Oh WELL said. I agree wholeheartedly. If you have to put on some character to be the Master all of a sudden, then it could be it's more of an act than a character trait.

I may be a bit more focused on the particulars when giving it to the slave, but I'm not someone different.

And I probably fumbled around something that stood well on it's own without my further comment. It's late, and I just really liked your response. For what it's worth, Kudos

Magnum

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

A lot of people, I believe, concern themselves a bit much about staying "in character" while engrossed in a journey


I noticed that too.
I don't get why some people change as person suddenly when they are with their sub/slave. Are you who you are...in and outside the bdsm thingy?
Meaningit is not a job or role that you switch off.


_____________________________

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. Mark Twain

Criticizing is easy, art is difficult.

The only time you run out of chances is when you stop taking them.

(in reply to Justme696)
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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/27/2010 12:30:46 AM   
MasterXMagnum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

(what is the plural of crisis?)

Deep kimchi


_____________________________

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. Mark Twain

Criticizing is easy, art is difficult.

The only time you run out of chances is when you stop taking them.

(in reply to catize)
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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/27/2010 12:37:41 AM   
catize


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterXMagnum


quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

(what is the plural of crisis?)

Deep kimchi



~~writes it down~~ !

_____________________________

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Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/27/2010 8:16:59 AM   
beej


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quote:

For the most part, even if I'm scared or uncomfortable, I do try to do it anyway. Actually, that's a fairly big chunk of what I tend to think of as actual submission, vs. being cooperative and obedient - how I respond to a request or order that is difficult for me.


i very much agree with this. i think that submission is a willingness/capacity to be malleable and not a declaration that one is already as soft as aluminum foil. one shouldn't have to be dragged kicking and screaming, but to come cussing and crying and sucking it up can be a sign of true yielding.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/27/2010 8:35:56 AM   
DesFIP


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Only if your relationship is based on obedience. Not everyone's is. Mine isn't. I'm not supposed to obey if I'm afraid or can see a bad outcome. I'm supposed to come tell him how I feel and what I'm worrying about.

The other part of this thread that hasn't been addressed is having a dominant who cares about how you feel. There are lots of poor dominants who don't want to hear anything bad, indeed who will punish the sub for not being happy about the order no matter what. How many threads have we read about the femsub who isn't allowed to orgasm indefinitely or talk to him until she can get her hot friend to fuck her dom? And will also punish the sub for the inevitable fallout when things do hit the deep kimchi. And not be there to take the heat. They don't qualify as good dominants who are competent in relationship skills, but that's not necessary to self identify as dominant unfortunately.


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(in reply to beej)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Emotions in D/s and BDSM - the good, the bad, and t... - 3/27/2010 8:40:12 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

They don't qualify as good dominants who are competent in relationship skills, but that's not necessary to self identify as dominant unfortunately.



yes... self-identification and the ability to actualize it in a meaningful and sucessful way are two seperate things for both d and s types. I make note of those that express their identification... but more importantly I observe their ability to be it successfully.


_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 20
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