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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/29/2010 8:08:31 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		If the universe is infinite we'll "pass this way again." I think "time" is to prevent everything from happening all at once, nothing says it can't be "circular."

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/29/2010 8:11:00 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Actually, if the universe is infinite, why would we pass this way again?

Space does spend around mass, though--I've always wondered if this would keep us "finitely" inside the universe.

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/29/2010 8:14:04 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Actually, if the universe is infinite, why would we pass this way again?

Space does spend around mass, though--I've always wondered if this would keep us "finitely" inside the universe.


We can, "if" time is circular.

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 6:15:43 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Einstein said that there (was) one exception to the speed of light. It was "The Big Bang" when "everything" moved much faster than the speed of light.


Interesting.

Why?

Tachyons, for example, while "faster than light," aren't truly so, as a matter of definition (quantum field vs. the subliminal universe we normally envision).

Any info?



I have read alot of Einstein, and I don't recall him saying anything on that order, what he said was far more subtle.

That is, NOTHING...NOTHING in the PONDERABLE universe exceeds the speed of light. That is, if there is something that does, we will be absolutely unaware of its workings and many of its effects, because none of our intrumentation (that by its very nature) exploits light, can see something moving faster than it....(and thats where you also run into Heisenberg, because of the limit and the intrusion in that realm).

So, if the big bang exceeded the speed of light at some point in its unfolding, we are shit outta luck to discover what went on during that time period, we have no way of seeing it.

Now, nothing is to say that einstein is 3000% right on this. Spooky action at a distance, (quantum pairing) is a quandry and if einstein is right, it will never be exploited beyond the gee whiz look at that fuckin thing stage.

As I understand and interpret what he said, anyway. I could be wrong too.


Ron

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 6:57:35 AM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

It probably has trillions more.
"The known universe" is only what man can see or "thinks" is out there. Maybe some people think there's a brick wall at the ends of the universe with a sign saying "keep out" or something.
Scientists "estimate" that the universe is some 156 billion light years across. What then, it just "ends?"


Actually yes.  I can remember when I was a kid before many technical advances in telescopes and instruments this being the story.  It was described as just being black beyond a certain point and that was proof that God had a curtain drawn and he and heaven were on the other side.  Gotta love the fundis.

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 7:41:03 AM   
choccywoc


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Status: offline 		An astrologer friend tells me we know about 5% of what is happening in space, i'm surprised it's that much. A 90% under estimation of the univese is'nt really a surprise. Some one once said: "there are as many grains of sand on earth as there are stars in space," and backed this up with a calculation. Yet it was only a calculation of the sand not the stars. All too easy to "miss" 90 per cent of galaxies here or there. Until we revise that figure and discover all the other that were overlooked as well. 

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 7:44:35 AM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		What if, in reality all those distant galaxies the scientists seek to see are in fact a big screen, a spherical screen in fact and everything we are seeing is just painted on, and we are living in a situation similar to Gattaca, everything we have and know and the perhaps the limits our intelligence can evolve is contained inside this sphere. It strikes me as is this what those who pry deeper and deeper into the night wish to see, they are seeking the limits of the science, as it is a human thing to define limits before we are content.

This kind of says it all for me


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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 7:52:55 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Well, there is the (somewhat) mainstream thought out there that the universe is wrapped, like looking in a mirror, looking in a mirror, looking in a mirror, ad infinitum.....(popeye and MM both alluded to it) and if we peer out billions and billions of years, we will see the back of our head.




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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 8:18:40 AM   
Darkmike


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Status: offline 		10 dimensional superstring theory dictates that our universe is but one universe in an infinate sea of energy, with 10 to the power of 500 universes containing similar physical properties. And nothing that has positive mass can exceed the speed of light, however subatomic particles with zero mas have been shown to respond and behave at faster than light speed. In face the equation e=MC2 only applies to objects with mass and the larger an object is the more energy required to take it towards the speed of light and the further from the light threshold this onject can achieve.
Eg the planet earth can theoretically approach 99.997% the speed of light and because of its mass time only travels 99.997% as fast on earth as in deep space.
Therefore the larger something is, the slower it passes through time. Something that exists with enough energy and no mass can theoretically exist across space and time.


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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 8:39:26 AM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Yeah, I can go with that.

But, to be honest, my concern really is about the planet I live on, I want to know more about that first before I contemplate the possibilities that might exist in places we have not the technology or timescale to see, as we see our own planet. A lot of what we have is just theories, theories that fit and so explain because they fit, the centre of this planet for example, it could be a bunch of hamsters on an exercise wheel rather than a core of iron, we just don't know. The ocean depths, again we do not have the technology to explore much of that, we don't know the limits of our own world yet, so seeking limits out in the void to me, is fruitless at this time. If we want to do something about space, get someone up there to clean up the billions of bits of crap we have sent up there, before it chooses to come back down and cause whatever havoc it might when it returns to mummy.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/30/2010 8:40:50 AM >

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 10:45:51 AM   
takemeforyourown


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Status: offline 		Kind of makes me feel a little insignificant, but in a good way.

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 12:14:38 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		In nature the circle or (oval) is the "perfect" shape. People's heads are oval, planets and stars are oval, even our galaxy is oval.
Why then wouldn't "time" be oval and not linear?
Is "time" so "big" that we just can't see that? And if time is linear it would need to have a beginning and an end. How would "one" end time? Or "begin" it?

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 3/30/2010 12:17:34 PM >

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 12:25:55 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		others may argue that it is a sphere that is perfect, others a buckyball. We know (this is for sure) that the universe is expanding. One then asks into what, and the only answer is the void a nothingness a unponderable, for us there is nothing outside the envelope, no time, no matter, no visibility, no light, no heat, no anything.........

It is fruitless to ponder it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQu_RRLbVDA&feature=fvw

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 12:30:18 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

others may argue that it is a sphere that is perfect, others a buckyball. We know (this is for sure) that the universe is expanding. One then asks into what, and the only answer is the void a nothingness a unponderable, for us there is nothing outside the envelope, no time, no matter, no visibility, no light, no heat, no anything.........

It is fruitless to ponder it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQu_RRLbVDA&feature=fvw


So is that "nothingness" empty space or solid?

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 12:33:09 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		unfathomable, and irrelevant. back to einstein, it is unponderable.

We can make 'tend, but will never know, it is outside of existance.


Ron

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 12:36:33 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

unfathomable, and irrelevant. back to einstein, it is unponderable.

We can make 'tend, but will never know, it is outside of existance.


Ron


Not really. If the universe is expanding is it only in "one direction" or is it expanding in all directions?

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 12:39:59 PM   
Marc2b


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Status: offline 		Damnit, Pahunk!  Quit changing your avatar all the time.  I looked at yours and thought that Level had gotten drunk.

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 12:42:00 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

unfathomable, and irrelevant. back to einstein, it is unponderable.

We can make 'tend, but will never know, it is outside of existance.


Ron


Not really. If the universe is expanding is it only in "one direction" or is it expanding in all directions?



All directions, all the time, just like einstein says at the opening of relativity of light....because dont nothing happen for humans until there is ligh, so plug in that fuckin cord brother.

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 12:44:17 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

I prefer to say GODDESS/GOD, because IMHO it can not be proven by mere mortals
than the GODDESS/GOD is male.

The Supreme Being, could be either or both or neither.

So, I like to think of her as GODDESS/GOD.
I am not sure why so many assume GOD, when surely GODDESS may apply!!
 
Peace, Joy, Blessings and a big smile on my face!
Thank the GODDESS above it is Saturday!


[Emphasis Mine]

It may not be assumption but merely habit.  I too am clueless as to whether the Creator is male, female, both, or neither.  I use terms like God, Him, and He simply because that is what I grew up with.  I suspect many people do that.

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RE: Universe may have billions more stars - 3/30/2010 12:47:39 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Uh, oh.........this may shitcan the whole dark matter theories.


Exactly what I was thinking.  The idea of Dark Matter was not so much a theory but a "fix" to explain a problem with the Big Bang theory (namely, where is all the extra matter the theory says should be there?).  Perhaps now the explantion has been found.  

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 3/30/2010 1:04:11 PM >

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