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RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 9:07:13 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Why do I have a hunch that when an individual mandate was a Repub. idea, the Dems hated it? What was the spin of the day from the pundits?

Remember the Clinton years? The Republicans were screaming "He's stealing our issues!"

It's just nuts. If anyone wants to steal my issues and get them done---you have my blessing. Good luck!




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/27/2010 9:08:15 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 9:09:32 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Come on Ron, neither party was in that room for a bipartisan efforts.

Look how they laid out their speakers and what the speakers said. Neither party was there to do anything but to win support for their agenda.

What makes me sick is when we the people sit out here and defend the political theatrics of all these self righteous clowns as justified on our behalf. Unless your plan is to serve your government, I doubt they give much of a shit about you personally.

I think Kennedy said it best, Ask not what your Government can do for you, but rather what you can do for your Government. It's all about the Government, right?

He nailed the agenda quite well it seems.




quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Uh, that is bullshit as well, I remember Obama at a meeting with the republicans and democrats about healthcare trying to get bipartisan collaboration working, several times, before he finally said fuck them clowns, it is going to have to be democratic only.


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I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 9:12:18 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Don't be to sure.

Often enough the best moves are the ones your advisory doesn't recognize until after you own his land and he is held within your employee................or worse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I agree the Republicans haven't done shit.


_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 9:13:17 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

I think Kennedy said it best, Ask not what your Government can do for you, but rather what you can do for your Government. It's all about the Government, right?

He nailed the agenda quite well it seems.

The trouble, Bull, is that since that speech, one party has come out as "government is the problem," and since people liked the sound of that, and missing the irony, elected those people to government.

We now have builders and smashers.

I would like to go back to co-builders. But that's not going to happen when the smashers are determined to carry the day.


quote:


Don't be to sure.

Often enough the best moves are the ones your advisory doesn't recognize until after you own his land and he is held within your employee................or worse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
I agree the Republicans haven't done shit.


Oh I'm confident they're busy.

But they're busy with regrasping power, so they can sit on it, spending on their ambitions, cutting taxes to pretend to pay for it while borrowing more money.

But an agenda for the country? Nowhere to be seen.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/27/2010 9:17:29 AM >

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 9:16:00 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		I've lost sight of any builders Tim...

But maybe you have a speach in mind with reference that will help me with understanding.

The parties and not the Government are the problem. Neither has supported the other with anything unless it fits their agenda, and that agenda often enough has little to do with common good.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The trouble, Bull, is that since that speech, one party has come out as "government is the problem," and since people liked the sound of that, and missing the irony, elected those people to government.

We now have builders and smashers.

I would like to go back to co-builders. But that's not going to happen when the smashers are determined to carry the day.





Edited to add...............we need campaign finance reform...............

< Message edited by xBullx -- 3/27/2010 9:20:44 AM >

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 9:17:54 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Which even conservative lawyers and groups say is nothing more then political theater.  Not one of the lawsuits are expect to go anywhere, other than give GOP SA who are also all up for re-election something to scream about while running


From Kentucky Attorney General Jack Conway

"I think this is an important point. The 13 or so attorneys general who are suing the government to exempt their states from the health law’s individual requirement and Medicaid expansion provisions are doing so in their capacity as elected politicians, not lawyers and the sooner we all stop pretending that their lawsuits are grounded in a serious legal interpretation of the constitution, the better. At least 4 of the 13 AGs are running for higher office (either Governor or Senator) and the rest are up for re-election. Their suits are designed to rally political support, not lay down new legal doctrine."



http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2010/03/conway_refuses.php

Let's assume that you and Jack Conway are correct and these AGs are only doing so based on their reelection bids. The only way that can work is for there to be a plurality of support for their arguments or a plurality that are against the bill. Which lends credence to the argument that the majority of Americans oppose the bill that has become law. For if those pluralities are not there, then what political gains could they be trying to garner? Obviously it's not their base voters.

By the way, isn't Jack Conway a Dem running for the Senate this fall? Glass houses and all that.

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RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 10:31:31 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

And now...The rest of the story...
quote:

Republicans say Obama and the Democrats co-opted their original concept, minus a mechanism they proposed for controlling costs. More than a dozen GOP attorneys general are determined to challenge the requirement in federal court as unconstitutional.



Rob… what does controlling cost have to do with unconstitutional? If the plans were the same except for cost controlling...controlling or not it would be unconstitutional...The Republicans can't have it both ways... their plan was unconstitutional too or the Democratic plan is not...Which is it?

Butch


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RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 10:39:00 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Uh, that is bullshit as well, I remember Obama at a meeting with the republicans and democrats about healthcare trying to get bipartisan collaboration working, several times, before he finally said fuck them clowns, it is going to have to be democratic only.

Hey Ron, ain't that the same meeting that closed with the Pres saying you guys have 6 weeks to cobble something together or we are gonna do it our way anyways? Oh and then within the next 2 to 3 days leaders of both houses announced they were doing it their way that Repubs had their chance?

I seem to remember something like that...

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 10:41:43 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Ah, were the world so simple.

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 10:48:22 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Let's face it, the televised square table thing was just a political theater so that the President could say "Hey, I tred to work with these asshats", while Pelosi and Reid both came out in the next couple of days and said we don't need to compromise we are doing it our way. Right or wrong that is the way it went down.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 10:50:57 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		No argument there.

But this has become a mantra for you, and if you seriously believe the poor, well-intentioned Republicans were ready to reform health care and would have too if only they hadn't been so handily shut out, you're equally silly.

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 11:01:52 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

No argument there.

But this has become a mantra for you, and if you seriously believe the poor, well-intentioned Republicans were ready to reform health care and would have too if only they hadn't been so handily shut out, you're equally silly.

Actually I believe that both sides had folks with good intentions when it comes to this matter. I also believe that there were plenty on both sides that didn't have those same good intentions when it came to getting a sensible bill passed with a consensus or otherwise. I learned a long while back that if you throw a grenade indoors you should beware of the shrapnel flying back in your direction.

I can't say whether the Repubs would have or could have fixed the problems. I do know that the current legislation probably has made things worse for the economy and for those receiving Medicare and Medicaid. I have given credit to the Dems for some of the things that the law does, but I will not let them off the hook for the other things it does. Seems pretty fair to me, holding those that passed it responsible for their actions. It would then be equally fair for you to hold those that voted against it accountable for not passing it. However, trying to rewrite history isn't going to change the perspective of those that witnessed it go down.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 11:02:36 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

-fast reply-

Personally I believe both parties are for this law that robs us all of more in the way of personal liberty.

I think the only reason either party argues this law is because they want to be the party, that in the end, when there are no more liberties to robs us of, are the ones holding the leash.

This is only the latest in a series of social unjustices that have robbed from Peter to pay Paul and then gave neither the funds or power accosted.

The game of Go continues....


Hi Master Bull,

I'm sorry but I don't see how the HC law takes away Americans' liberties. Could you explain your rationale behind that belief?

zeph


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 11:13:30 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Why do I have a hunch that when an individual mandate was a Repub. idea, the Dems hated it?  What was the spin of the day from the pundits?


You're right.

I didn't like it either from the start and still have my reservations about it, but the reality is you cannot eliminate the abuses of the current system by not requiring full participation.





(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 11:15:22 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

Seems pretty fair to me, holding those that passed it responsible for their actions. It would then be equally fair for you to hold those that voted against it accountable for not passing it. However, trying to rewrite history isn't going to change the perspective of those that witnessed it go down.


Seems fair to me too, Thadius. And rewriting this with helpless Republican victims is indeed a fiction.

Medicare, with or without this bill, is going to have to cost more, because it does in fact cost more and more. Those costs need to be examined as well, and that means people aren't going to get everything they want, and it means not everyone is going to get paid what might be asked. The alternative is to watch it spiral to destruction.

The Republican plan? End it by privatizing it. Give people a choice of carriers and premiums, "just like in Congress." This, of course, is not Medicare at all, but traditional health insurance, with no plan for how seniors will pay the, yes, higher rates.

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 11:18:31 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Why do I have a hunch that when an individual mandate was a Repub. idea, the Dems hated it?  What was the spin of the day from the pundits?


You're right.

I didn't like it either from the start and still have my reservations about it, but the reality is you cannot eliminate the abuses of the current system by not requiring full participation.

No, he's not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Remember the Clinton years? The Republicans were screaming "He's stealing our issues!"

It's just nuts. If anyone wants to steal my issues and get them done---you have my blessing. Good luck!

And want to go back and count the number of Bush initiatives Democrats cooperated with?

Even when they shouldn't have.


(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 11:23:32 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Come on Ron, neither party was in that room for a bipartisan efforts.

Look how they laid out their speakers and what the speakers said. Neither party was there to do anything but to win support for their agenda.

What makes me sick is when we the people sit out here and defend the political theatrics of all these self righteous clowns as justified on our behalf. Unless your plan is to serve your government, I doubt they give much of a shit about you personally.

I think Kennedy said it best, Ask not what your Government can do for you, but rather what you can do for your Government. It's all about the Government, right?


No they were not in there for bi-partisan efforts because the Republicans declared from the start that they would oppose any health care bill.

As far as Kennedy's quote, it was country, not government.  There is a difference.  Country implies for the betterment of the nation as a whole.

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/27/2010 10:37:01 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		See the link for Republican initiatives included in the bill:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/republican-ideas

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Obama's health insurance rule — it was a GOP idea - 3/28/2010 12:42:49 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		The vote against the bill is irrelevant because they lost.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The vote against the bill was bipartisan.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Speaking of laughing.

How in the hell can you claim the Republicans voted in a bipartisan manner when not one single Republican voted for the legislation.



(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 39
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