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I got to give up event photography - 3/27/2010 5:53:09 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Tonight I attended a cross cultural dance event, where I went in my capacity as the group photographer to get pics for the group album.Everything was fine untilI tried to video my dance group whilst performing on stage, I was stopped twice. The first time was the official photographer who tried to confiscate my cameras, saying he was the official photographer and no one else is allowed to take photos, with camera flashes going off everywhere in the audience, yet he picked me to have a go at. He only relented when I informed him that if he touched my cameras, he would be trying to extract his camera from up his own ass, I was not in the mood to piss about, I had a job to do, getting the best possible pics of my friends, for my friends.

The second time I got stopped, was from someone else who asked if I had been CRB checked, I said no, I don't need to to do what I am doing, the answer came back, but there are children here, my answer was, so what I am not photographing them they are of no interest, but the person who was part of the event management insisted I put the camera away or I will be removed by security. I did so, but I did ask if he was also going to do the same with the rest of the audience who were taking pictures and using flash, which I was told was prohibited when I gained permission to photograph my dance classes event. Yes, I had authority to photograph, I had been named and described to the event management's team as the group photographer, but still I got hassle.

But what annoyed me the most was the question on whether I had been CRB checked because there was children present. This implies to me, no matter what you are doing, if you do not have a CRB check done, you are a suspected paedophile. I take offense to this and believe the way we are going, this industry that has been created in the so called name of minor protection, is doing nothing more than messing up  normal people, it is creating a guilt where there should be none. So, I am considering quitting as my dance group's photographer, as, it is just not worth the hassle.

All I think now, is thank fuck I am not a parent, but then, maybe that is the problem, because I am a single male, then it stands I must be a threat.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone
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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/27/2010 6:11:55 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Try not to take this the wrong way.

But Alex Jones rants alot about people be stopped from taking pictures.

You really ought to tune in to his shows.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/


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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/27/2010 6:27:30 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I am kind of more bothered about the notion that is pervading our society, no one is to be trusted or respected for being who they are, for it assumed that if you are a male with a camera, then you must be suspicious. To note, when I am asked to take photographs that mean something and are of use to the subjects, I do so with my DSLR and all the knowledge gained over thirty years of being an amateur photographer who once held a LRPS certification as a semi professional photographer. The photographs I take of those who ask, are made available at full resolution in their entirety, as I see my skill, as something to delight others, basically, I photograph in the belief that I am helping others.

I just detest the way our society is going, and we are letting it by listening to the nazis who make industry and politics out of things that are a rare occurrence, Normal people are being demonised because of the few.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/27/2010 6:41:01 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		From what I gather it is worse in the UK.



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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/27/2010 7:00:00 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I am so pissed off tonight, I am drinking homebrew sloe gin, as that is the only alcohol in the house, it has lasted this far, because I positively hate the stuff, too sweet for me, but I had a valid need. Feeling fairly chilled now.

All I see in my chilled state, is this country is going down the pan and it is us that is letting it happen, for we will not, or fear to tackle those that are ruining us. I am not speaking about the pests in society, they have always been there, but I am speaking of those that say much in the right places and inhibit the rest of us. The pests that have always been there, they will continue to be there, and get their kicks where they can, but for the rest of us, we are doomed. Possibly the point will come when normal people will not want children around, so they cannot be used as as a vehicle for the twats in our society who see danger and misuse around every corner.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/27/2010 8:17:21 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Just wondering who is in charge of the group? They should have gotten clearance for you in advance.

That said I do understand your frustration…In my neighborhood you can be arrested for just looking at children while at a stop sign. A good friend of mine is on our sex offender list because when on a float trip he did not see a little boy watching him when he went into the woods to urinate.

But I guess we have to go to the extremes to protect children this day and age…It’s a shame.

Butch


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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/27/2010 9:12:12 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Hey, as a kid who used to wander all over and cycle twenty miles away to the beach, we never had this shit, sure we knew the weirdos were around, we met many, one I even shot in the dick at a close range of about eight feet with a point 22 air rifle, for him showing his dick to us, there was he talking calmy, his clobber out of his kecks, it wavering around and for some unknown reason I squeezed the trigger. The last sight of him as we ran was him doing hedgehog impressions on the floor. Shitting it we all hid and awaited the police, they never came. Later in the forces, I gained the comendation as a marksman and was asked to go for the rifle shooting team. I hated guns, so no way on that. Anyway we saw many with their tackle out, most got laughed at or rocks chucked at them or some evil little bastard with gravel and a catapult, we dealt with them. One of my family out walking the sheepdog was confronted with a flasher and she set the dog on his goolies and laughed about it.

Those assholes were dealt with, we all knew about them, we knew they could be found on farmland tracks and woodland, but pity them when they came up against a bunch of seen it all before wise kids, they were dead meat straight away, they got ridiculed so much they scurried away.

Now we have kids educated that potentially everyone is a weirdo, any lone male is a threat, and it is made clear  to us that going near a minor for whatever is not worth our while.

I was recently asked if I would consider helping out with the local scout troop, the askee knowing full well I was a qualified mountain leader, potholing, climbing and canoeing instructor, I said straight away, no, I am not getting involved with that to become scrutinised as a potential paedophile for using my skills to give young people a better insight on life. I long ago left scouting for the reason social workers tried to recruit us to snitch on people. I got a lot out of scouting, it taught me many of my skills, skills I would like to repay, but in this day and age, forget it, no way, I will not subject myself to that, not the kids, but the assholes who think they know better.This country has screwed itself for allowing the twats in society to speak unchallenged.

Regards this evening's photography, the  dance group leader asked if their photographer could record the event, to which they said yes, but no flash photography. This evening they asked who was the photographer, I was described to the organisers, what I was wearing and such, which is hardly mistakeable as I tend to wear my taste in clothing, which is er, individual.So, the organisers knew about me, but I received no instruction from them as to where I may point my camera. It appears the one who challenged me was a minion, not party to organisers knowledge, a busy body perhaps, or even  someone charged up by the so called official photographer I ran across earlier. I intend to complain about the official photographer, for he was rude and aggressive, not something I would hope be welcome at a charity event for cross cultural respect.

But what these people did for me, was ruin my evening, they made me feel like crap, as is common when I come against anyone who is proud to wear their jobs worth hat. I can be kind of aggressive, but that leads to things I don't like in myself, so I try to practise and think non violence, but by doing so, I lack the skills to deal with people who are making my life a problem.I think slowly but accurately, I cannot quickly counter a verbal attack, and that with me leads to self anger, through my inability to say what I feel for fear it is the wrong thing to say.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/27/2010 9:43:04 PM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/27/2010 9:50:01 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		well I doubt that their wonderful vista is worth the film- at all.   who want to remember a shitty memory?

No one.

at the rate you are going the UK wont have any tourists just like the US.  Because people - especially those over 30- don't want the hassle.

anytime there is a large barrier one needs to ask himself- , "did I fence them out, or did I fence myself in".   therein lies the nagging riddle.


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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/28/2010 12:00:32 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Is CRB some sort of criminal background check?

I advise talking to the event organizers and making sure everything is straightened out if they ask you to photograph future events. They should give you an official photographer's badge that you can wear while working.

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/28/2010 6:33:50 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Then you need a written apology.
CRB checks aren't compulsory.  That's media hype.  The only people who are required to have them are people who teach or care for children.  It was completely the managements discretion of the venue to decide whether checks needed to be done one external people.  That's purely down to in-house rules, which should have been arranged prior to the event and changing it midway through the event was incorrect procedure.  There are only a handful of organisations and business' that are allowed by law to view CRB checks and so you need to get confirmation they have this anyway.

When you attend an event, you get a press pass from the management organisers, if you didn't do that then you don't have much of a leg to stand on though.  If you are working at an event, you introduce yourself first and talk to the management.

the.dark.

< Message edited by RCdc -- 3/28/2010 6:42:15 AM >

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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/28/2010 9:27:18 AM   
Sanity


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Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
I gave up on event photography a long time ago. The pay can be good but there are too many problems. People who hire you to do the professional group photo arrangements then get upset when you won't allow their uncle Joe to shoot over your shoulder so they don't have to buy your prints, neurotic brides who demand full control then decry the results. Drunks who refuse to listen... I have all kinds of horror stories (and a few good ones too ) but in all I finally decided I'm not the type to put up with everything that a good photographer must.


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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/28/2010 12:08:51 PM   
ShoreBound149


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Joined: 7/2/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I am drinking homebrew sloe gin.



Nothing good can come from that.

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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/28/2010 3:05:45 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Next time call the manager of the venue a week before to arrange to be allowed to take pics of your group. Better yet, have the head of the group call for you.

As far as protecting children, I've had to threaten to call the cops a few times. My oldest rides, most barns are filled with girls from ages 8 through majority and then. On  more than one occasion I've shown up to pick her up, and found a strange man wandering around hassling the girls. I've pointed out the phone number on the sign at the entrance, informed them they must call and get permission to be on the property and told them either they leave immediately or I'm calling 911. Unfortunately it's always the shyest child who gets cornered and is afraid to be rude to a stranger.


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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/28/2010 6:44:46 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Next time call the manager of the venue a week before to arrange to be allowed to take pics of your group. Better yet, have the head of the group call for you.

As far as protecting children, I've had to threaten to call the cops a few times. My oldest rides, most barns are filled with girls from ages 8 through majority and then. On  more than one occasion I've shown up to pick her up, and found a strange man wandering around hassling the girls. I've pointed out the phone number on the sign at the entrance, informed them they must call and get permission to be on the property and told them either they leave immediately or I'm calling 911. Unfortunately it's always the shyest child who gets cornered and is afraid to be rude to a stranger.



I did , and the assurances were there, each group of dancers performing were permitted to take both still and video footage of their group performing. To note each group that performed, did so for free, in the name of charity. The pro official photographer who initially hassled me, told me he and he only was permitted to take photos as he was CRB checked. I pointed out no one in our group of dancers was younger than 18, so CRB is not necessary, and I had all their permission to photograph, which is something he did not have. I am launching a complaint about this guy, because I suspect he was also involved with the second challenge to my photography. I did at the time demand his name, but he would not give it.

Wherever my dance group performs, I record the event, everything I take I give away, I make nothing from what I do, except the pleasure of doing my best to make people happy, ( it also prevents me from dancing in public, a valid excuse, for I lack the confidence to perform at this time, although I am told I am good) it seems we are in an age where making people happy is wrong unless they pay for it.

Although maybe I know what it is, use a compact camera or prosumer camera you seem to be ok, but if you tote a DSLR, it is assumed one is up to no good, and in the case of the pro wanker I came across perhaps he knows that having a DSLR means I know how to use it, and I do, perhaps he thought I was limiting his chances of making money as a sideline from the fee he had for being there, if that was the case, he can fuck off, for he had his fee, he had no right to use his official status to gain extra money for himself.

As for children, I am getting to the point of disliking them, for what society demands. I don't have kids, I can't have them, it was a source of sorrow and frustration for many years, but I am over that now, but now see where there are childrenn present, adults are forced to be inhibited.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/28/2010 7:08:20 PM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/28/2010 8:05:40 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		so what you are saying is those who were photographed were so ugly it broke the camera.  

hence pics are not possible.

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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/28/2010 11:24:56 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Unfortunately it's always the shyest child who gets cornered and is afraid to be rude to a stranger. "

It sounds like you have a story to tell.

Things do happen sometimes, but the cost to society is immeasurable. A perfectly normal hug given to a teenage female student by an older male teacher is viewed with such suspicion that it's better off not happening. But maybe the kid needed a hug, maybe she was having tough times, it does happen y'know. Now we are at a point where even if the genders of the teacher and student were reversed there is a jaundiced eye cast upon the whole "affair".

This is mainly because of the acceptance of Freudian concepts, the Man is first and foremost into sex, possibly because of the natural drive for reproduction. This may have been true of Sigmund and everyone he ever met but it is not true of everyone. But the assumption is there and that Man did more to promote it than anyone in history. He, like the others who don't really understand, fell into the trap of thinking that everone was like him. I am well beyond that thinking and I think it's a damn shame that an adult can't hug a kid out in the street, for example who just fell and skinned their knee. If I, as a grown Man hug the little girl before going finding out where her Mommy is I might have twelve shotguns pointed at me in a matter of seconds. People are the suspicious. It divides us and conquers us every day.

And this is not based so much on law, of course people are protective of their children, I would not expect nor do less myself I guess. But the distrust and fear generated has been way more effective at keeping us separated than any terrorist act ever could.

[terminator mode on] Shit happens, in perspective that cannot be ignored. But you can install 99 security systems, certify everyone who comes in contact with your kids, have them on camera almost 24 hours a day, and it can still happen. The only workable solution is to take people who do this shit outside, shoot them and get some good friends to help you bury the body somewhere. It is over. Don't send the guy to a place where he will get free rent, electric, heat, cable TV and food all on our dime, WHACK the motherfucker. If I had kids and someone abused them, I would not even think of calling the cops. And to make it a bit more clear, I would instruct my neighbors to not call the cops, that I was handling this. I don't want the cops called because one day they might just find that body. Get it ?
[Terminator mode off]

However I have to keep in mind that everybody can't just do that.

It's a tricky balance because if you shield the kids from all danger they don't learn. But you can't just let "things happen" either. It's a tough call really.

T

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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/29/2010 12:01:38 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I'll ask you again.  Did you get a press pass?  Did you go up to the management before hand and introduce yourself to the person who you spoke to over the phone?

If I had been the official, I would have been pissed off if some amature with any proof was taking images and he or she hadn't had the decency to introduce themselves to me or even got in my way when taking images.  We only have one side of the story here after all.

quote:

As for children, I am getting to the point of disliking them, for what society demands. I don't have kids, I can't have them, it was a source of sorrow and frustration for many years, but I am over that now, but now see where there are childrenn present, adults are forced to be inhibited.


And this is just fucked up.  Dislike children because of the actions of adults?  I'll remember to keep mine away from you then in case they piss you off.

the.dark.

< Message edited by RCdc -- 3/29/2010 12:02:31 AM >

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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/29/2010 5:36:12 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Nope I did'nt, as I was told it was not necessary, for I was permitted to do, just like everyone else there with their flash video recorders, compact cameras and mobile phones. I am not a professional, I am an amateur, I am qualified as a professional, my LRPS status gives me that, but I long ago decided photography is for pleasure, not for making money. But because there is a professional photographer paid to be there, that is not to say that barrs everyone else from taking photos, if it was, it would make it a closed event, where money making was seen as the motive, let's screw as much money out of the families who came to watch as possible. The event would become less about raising awareness about cultural diversity and more about how we can use this issue to make money for ourselves. The pro that caused me problems, did not introduce himself, he was on the first instance rude and aggressive to me, because someone might have official status, it does not make them above any one else and they need to remember that when approaching people. Furthermore, the pro when I asked for his name for the purpose of putting in a complaint, would not give me it. Now, that says to me, he knows he has done wrong, else why withold that information, when it is by action of  someone who makes money from what they do, they want their name  to be circulated.

So I ask this question, because someone has been awarded 'official' status, does that make them better than everyone else, are they entitled to do and say as they please because they have that status ? Or is it they have no elevated status above any other person and so must treat other people with the same respect they would want themselves. One does not approach a person with rudeness and aggression otherwise, so why does a person with an 'official' badge think they are able to do so. Could it be even when a person gains a badge of officialdom, it goes to their head ?

Professional only implies one makes money from what they do, it is not a badge to say  they are better than everyone else, and that goes for the subject matter too.If it is a case people who make money from what they do, in this case photography feel threatened by the march of time, tough basically, move with the times, just like every other profession has to.There has been leaps and bounds with photography over the digital age, it has advanced so far that I can see why pros might feel threatened, but, it's a job, find another if that one is not working, for there should be no protectionism for these people, especially if found to be rude and aggressive when they come into contact with others.

This so called professional who failed to act in a professional manner, his first words to me, was, 'right, lets have your cameras,' he made a grab for them and said he was confiscating them, as he was the official photographer.  I restrained the use of violence to defend my property and ate my own anger as usual, but I did say to this chap is he going to confiscate all the other cameras being used, or is it taking on the majority of the audience is too big for him. Nowhere in this event was it stated that private photography is not permitted, that says to me one can photograph and my dance group organiser had on my request asked if it was ok to photograph my dance group, to which the reply was yes.

Either the so called pro did not know private photography was permitted, or he felt threatened enough to act on his personal anger and used CRB notions as a means to augment himself into higher status.

As for the issue of children around, I like children, I believe I have lots I would like to teach them, but I feel threatened by my thought that wanting to help children is seen as impure. I am a single guy, I am very aware of how society might view me, so I keep away, even if I did undergo the voluntary CRB checks, I will always be under suspicion for wanting to help children, it is why I will not go back into scouting, and I am not the only male that thinks this, it is a common thought in this day and age. The result of course is youth groups are being starved of people who would otherwise be glad to help out for the betterment of the upcoming generation.In this day and age, males have to protect themselves first and foremost at all times, for all it will take, is a suggestion made in passing or more directly for all hell to break loose, as when suspicion is created, it never stops.

You have to see this from the point of view of a single childless male, who might feel they have a lot to offer children, how they know present society perceives them because of past public negativity.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/29/2010 5:54:59 AM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/29/2010 5:52:50 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Attempted theft, common assault and battery - though the police are unlikely to be too interested I suspect and he might get nothing more than a stern word about his conduct in future if they took it on.

He had no right whatever to act the way he did, regardless of whether he was the official photographer, regardless of whether he has CRB approval and regardless of whether you or anyone else had permission to take pictures, with or without a CRB check. If he had a problem and wished to raise it he should have gone to the organisers and/or if he had suspicions of criminal activity called the police; it wasnt as if anyone was about to flee the scene after all.

E

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RE: I got to give up event photography - 3/29/2010 9:31:05 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		At the same time, different venues have different rules. My daughter shows horses, and parents are not allowed into the middle of the ring to take pictures. We are permitted to stand at the gate to get shots. But the official photographer pays money to the venue to be the official photographer and they make money by selling the close ups as well as other posed shots.

It sounds like the venue the op was at was not making it clear to their photographer that as this was a charity event, the individual groups were being allowed in. And therefore the rules were different for this one time. Next time the op will hopefully remember to check in with the office about this when they arrive, and not when the performance starts.


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