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RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 2:41:04 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


Here's the implication, though...

Are you under the impression the FBI, Bureau of Homeland Security and Joint Terrorism Task Force routinely pick a Sunday to bash a militia without reasonable suspicious of wrong-doing?





I think that they should have some reasonable purpose for doing so, and since there was mention of search warrants I would assume that a judge thought so as well. Whether that actually lead to there being something actually unlawful being uncovered or that there was something illegal that occured I think more information is necessary.

I also know of a few instances back in the '90s during the so-called "jack booted thug" days, where many militias were harrassed simply because of them being a militia. So I try to keep an open mind, until some proof of wrong doing (by either side) is released. I would even go so far as to say that the conspiracy types will try to tie this to some sort of plan to incite some violence, or some other craziness.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 2:42:01 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Well, this should heat things up---it's a Christian militia group that threatened Islamic groups....

Seven arrested in FBI raids linked to Christian militia group
Jennifer Chambers / The Detroit News

At least seven people, including some from Michigan, have been arrested in raids by a FBI-led Joint Terrorism Task Force in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana as part of an investigation into an Adrian-based Christian militia group, a person familiar with the matter said.

The suspects are expected to make an initial appearance in U.S. District Court in Detroit on Monday.

On Sunday, the FBI confirmed that federal law enforcement agents were conducting activities in Washtenaw and Lenawee counties over the weekend in connection to Hutaree, a Christian militia group. FBI Special Agent Sandra Berchtold told The Detroit News the federal warrants in the case are under court seal and declined further comment.

Sources have said the FBI was in the second day of raids around the southeastern Michigan city of Adrian that are connected to a militia group, known as the Hutaree, an Adrian-based group whose members describe themselves as Christian soldiers preparing for the arrival and battle with the anti-Christ.

WXYZ-TV reports that helicopters were spotted in the sky for much of Saturday night, and agents set up checkpoints throughout the area. Witnesses told the station that it was like a small army had descended on the area. The Department of Homeland Security and the Joint Terrorism Task Force are also involved in the raids.

Mike Lackomar, of Michiganmilitia.com, said both The Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia and the Michiganmilitia.com were not a part of the raid.

Lackomar said he heard from other militia members that the FBI targeted the Hutaree after its members made threats of violence against Islamic organizations.

"Last night and into today the FBI conducted a raid against homes belonging to the Hutaree. They are a religious cult. They are not part of our militia community," he said.

Lackomar said he was told there were five arrests Saturday and another five early Sunday. The FBI declined to comment.

One of the Hutaree members called a Michigan militia leader for assistance Saturday after federal agents had already began their raid, Lackomar said, but the militia member -- who is of Islamic decent and had heard about the threats -- declined to offer help. That Michigan militia leader is now working with federal officials to provide information on the Hutaree member for the investigation, Lackomar said Sunday.

"They are more of survivalist group and in an emergency they withdraw and stand their ground. They are actively training to be alongside Jesus," he said.

Sources from the Michigan militia community said one of the FBI raids took place Saturday during a wake for a Hutaree member who had died of natural causes. A Hutaree leader was arrested during the wake while at the same time agents were conducting raids at other locations.

The Associated Press is reporting that FBI spokesman Scott Wilson in Cleveland said agents arrested two people Saturday in northwest Ohio. A third arrest was made in Illinois on Sunday, a day after raids in northwest Indiana.

Dawud Walid, executive director of the Council on Islamic-American Relations of Michigan, made an announcement Sunday during the group's 10th anniversary banquet about receiving a call from a network journalist about the alleged threat against Muslims.

"Don't allow this news to scare you away from practicing your faith," said Walid.

Audible gaps were heard throughout the banquet hall when the news was announced. Walid said he will call local authorities about more information on the allegations. He urged local Muslims to recommitt themselves to their faith in light of the accusations.

David Shepardson and Oralandar Brand-Williams contributed to this report.


From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100328/METRO/3280313/1361/Seven-arrested-in-FBI-raids-linked-to-Christian-militia-group#ixzz0jVg8Hzfa

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 2:47:08 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		And with that, if they are responsible for threatening anybody, they needed to be rounded up.

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RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 2:57:54 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyak-E5gTAY&feature=player_embedded

_____________________________

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Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 3:12:26 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

And with that, if they are responsible for threatening anybody, they needed to be rounded up.


where is the injured party?

lots of people and groups make lots of threats and never carry them out.

They bombed afghanastan and iraq because of a "perceived" or "assumed" threat and now its on our back porch and they violate the rights of americans over an assumed threat. 


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 3:29:33 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/cbabb3addc/bailout-rejected-please-help-the-rich-from-fod-team?rel=exclusive&rel_pos=4

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 3:33:44 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

And with that, if they are responsible for threatening anybody, they needed to be rounded up.


where is the injured party?

lots of people and groups make lots of threats and never carry them out.

They bombed afghanastan and iraq because of a "perceived" or "assumed" threat and now its on our back porch and they violate the rights of americans over an assumed threat. 



You don't think threatening to kill people should be against the law?


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 3:39:13 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Panda, realone doesnt think that anything should be against the law, at least as far as I can tell

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 3:41:22 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Panda, realone doesnt think that anything should be against the law, at least as far as I can tell


Yeah, I guess I hardly needed to ask. I just had this foolish curiosity...


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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 3:50:29 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Every time we have a democratic administration, they abuse their constitutional authority unless it is a hippie cult living on a commune with marijuana as their money crop. Then they give them an award. Waco was a prime example. From what I remember, their justification for raiding Waco was that they owned automatic weapons which at the time were illegal I think. I remember Bush legalized them and although I am firmly against gun control myself, I myself thought that went a little too far. As far as I'm concerned assault weapons are just that, for offensive purposes, not defensive, although I don't have a problem with militias owning automatic weapons, including armed humvees, and even helicoptor support if it is a militia of the majority.

People don't seem to realize that someday, and someday soon, all hell could break loose, and law enforcement won't stand a chance of maintaining order or protecting your neighborhoods. As always, the police never protect you from crime. They usually only arrive afterwards to investigate it, and then your relatives have to hire someone to clean up the mess. I can't understand why anyone would want to put their faith in law enforcement when the constitution clearly authorizes every American citizen to own a weapon, and join a militia.

http://babelishere.webs.com/guncontrol.html





Actually cuckold, the REPUBLICANS have more of a record raiding and arresting militia members, Ruby Ridge in 1992, Alabama in 2007, Arkansas in 2006.

These were under Bush sr. and Bush jr. You might want to try again.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 3:51:54 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Panda, realone doesnt think that anything should be against the law, at least as far as I can tell


are you an injured party?

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 3:55:36 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

And with that, if they are responsible for threatening anybody, they needed to be rounded up.


where is the injured party?

lots of people and groups make lots of threats and never carry them out.

They bombed afghanastan and iraq because of a "perceived" or "assumed" threat and now its on our back porch and they violate the rights of americans over an assumed threat. 



You don't think threatening to kill people should be against the law?



you got any proof of that?

you got any proof that is what took place with these militia people?

Then lets talk about the government murdering the islams.

thats ok?  they are up to what now 1+++ million?

Barking dogs as a rule dont bite.  Like it or not speech is protected and there is no cause until an action occurs.

The alternative of course is that I can say that you claimed you were gonna kill some jews and come in with a bunch of armed thugs to assault and kidnap you over purely a trumped up charge that the public dumb asses that they are have no clue they were trumped up.

Hell they found the id floating to the ground and went to war with no proof from a government and judicial system that operates purely in fraud.

choose your poison.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 3:58:19 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Like it or not speech is protected and there is no cause until an action occurs.


So you studied law on the back cover of the same comic book that you used to study physics, engineering, and thermodynamics.

Got it.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 3:58:56 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Every time we have a democratic administration, they abuse their constitutional authority unless it is a hippie cult living on a commune with marijuana as their money crop. Then they give them an award. Waco was a prime example. From what I remember, their justification for raiding Waco was that they owned automatic weapons which at the time were illegal I think. I remember Bush legalized them and although I am firmly against gun control myself, I myself thought that went a little too far. As far as I'm concerned assault weapons are just that, for offensive purposes, not defensive, although I don't have a problem with militias owning automatic weapons, including armed humvees, and even helicoptor support if it is a militia of the majority.

People don't seem to realize that someday, and someday soon, all hell could break loose, and law enforcement won't stand a chance of maintaining order or protecting your neighborhoods. As always, the police never protect you from crime. They usually only arrive afterwards to investigate it, and then your relatives have to hire someone to clean up the mess. I can't understand why anyone would want to put their faith in law enforcement when the constitution clearly authorizes every American citizen to own a weapon, and join a militia.

http://babelishere.webs.com/guncontrol.html





Actually cuckold, the REPUBLICANS have more of a record raiding and arresting militia members, Ruby Ridge in 1992, Alabama in 2007, Arkansas in 2006.

These were under Bush sr. and Bush jr. You might want to try again.


yeh and murdering by roasting 168 innocent women and kids at waco was on DEMOCRATIC watch.

so isnt our 2 party dicktatership grand?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 3:59:20 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Panda, realone doesnt think that anything should be against the law, at least as far as I can tell


are you an injured party?


Does she need to be to comment on it? Unless you are taking depositions for the defense, what does it matter if she has legal standing as an injured party? However, to be exact about the law in the case of threats, it occurs from time to time that even the injured party has no idea that they were threatened or in any danger (look at all the stings into folks hiring hitmen to off their spouses). A threat can be deemed credible and sometimes even the threat can be seen as the actual action if the government can prove there was a showing of intent, and sometimes even without a showing of intent (like calling in a bomb threat).

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 3:59:20 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/cbabb3addc/bailout-rejected-please-help-the-rich-from-fod-team?rel=exclusive&rel_pos=4


PaHunk! That's funny as hell!!!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 4:02:26 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Like it or not speech is protected and there is no cause until an action occurs.


So you studied law on the back cover of the same comic book that you used to study physics, engineering, and thermodynamics.

Got it.



well unlike you I had better things to do than get a masters in counting the peanuts in shit turds floating in toilet bowls.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 4:03:26 PM   
takemeforyourown


Posts: 430
Joined: 2/24/2007
Status: offline 		I understand that there are militia "hate" groups. I continue to support the 2nd Amendment, however. Although I am a peace-loving, bleeding-heart liberal, I believe that an organized non-governmental militia could be the last stand and protection against a government that turns against its citizens. At least, I think that's what the Founders had in mind.


Edited to add that I also believe that those who seek to overthrow the government are traitors.

< Message edited by takemeforyourown -- 3/28/2010 4:05:43 PM >

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 4:04:30 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/cbabb3addc/bailout-rejected-please-help-the-rich-from-fod-team?rel=exclusive&rel_pos=4


PaHunk! That's funny as hell!!!


Maybe they have a payment plan.  lol

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: MI militia raided by FBI - 3/28/2010 4:06:50 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I find it amusing that for a number of posters the burden of proof,as far as whether or not they were operating in a legal manner,seems to be on the actual law enforcement entities involved.
Why?



Wow, Mike's speaking out for, "The Man!"

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 60
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