RE: Which America?

RE: Which America? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

Sanity -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 4:09:50 AM)
Actually, the Medicare issue is legitimate even if some in the left wing media (such as Katie Couric) try to divert attention away from it by interviewing select old people who say it poorly and make all elderly people seem afflicted with dementia. The reason the issue is legitimate is that the health care "reform" is being partially paid for by taking five hundred billion dollars from the medicare program. Thats billion, with a B. You know how much that is? That could fill a lot of piggy banks. quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened See, I'm confused because the Tea-Party wants "government" to keep its hands off "their" Medicare and that makes as much sense as saying "We demand all ham to be pork-free!!" Okay. Let's get rid of Medicare altogether and that will keep "the government" out of healthcare! What are they doing to make this a reality?

eyesopened -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 4:15:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Actually, the Medicare issue is legitimate even though the leftwing media tries to divert attention away from it by interviewing old people who say it in a way thats perhaps unflattering and makes all old people seem afflicted with dementia. The reason the issue is legitimate is that the health care "reform" is being partially paid for by taking five hundred billion dollars from the medicaid program. Thats billion, with a B. Medicare and Medicaid are two different things. If we want "government" out of healthcare, just get rid of the whole damn thing. Why wouldn't everybody be behind this? If it saves the taxpayers billions with a B cuz I'm too stupid to spell billions, then what is the problem? Don't say keep government out of healthcare but we want government healthcare. That spells incongruous... that's with an I.

Sanity -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 4:17:59 AM)
Its the massive expansion that people are against, at a time that we can't afford it. Why would they have to be against medicare to be against cutting medicare? That doesn't make any sense.

Sanity -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 4:25:05 AM)
Be careful. Some of the trolls around here are trying to suggest that if you climb up to my level and start discussing the actual issues rather than their red herrings - that will make you dumber. Scary!

eyesopened -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 4:30:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Its the massive expansion that people are against, at a time that we can't afford it. Why would they have to be against medicare to be against cutting medicare? That doesn't make any sense. I understand what you are saying. But it doesn't make sense to me to shout slogans about keeping governement out of healthcare but let's not touch government healthcare. That's illogical. My question was... what do they want? Are you saying, Republicans want less government and few or no social programs...as long as they stay popular? Is it really just about popularity? Does anyone really care about anything anymore other than money and popularity? Have we really just become a celebrity-based society? It's what it's starting to feel like. So what are the Republicans doing? Other than shouting? What does the Tea-Party want? Other than to get rid of Obama? What then? They really would prefer Biden? Or do we have real revolution and just go to a one-party system? I'm serious? What do they want? What are they doing to get it?

Sanity -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 5:32:53 AM)
They want the deficit reduced, primarily. The only reason Obama's a focal point is that he seems to be deliberately trying to make the deficits so high that they destroy us. Wether its deliberate or not is hard to say but thats the way we are headed, to deficits that are so bad that there will be no choice other than to default on our debt, much like Greece. All the partisan hype you're hearing from the left about how hateful they are or how radical they are is pure bull. This is all about the deficits, first and foremost.

eyesopened -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 5:48:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity They want the deficit reduced, primarily. The only reason Obama's a focal point is that he seems to be deliberately trying to make the deficits so high that they destroy us. Wether its deliberate or not is hard to say but thats the way we are headed, to deficits that are so bad that there will be no choice other than to default on our debt, much like Greece. How did the Republican party decrease deficits in the 8 years prior to Obama? What are they doing to decrease deficits now? How did the bank bailout help the deficit? How does the Faith-Based Initiative reduce the deficit? How did gifting money to 9/11 victim/families reduce the deficit? Okay... that's in the past but what is happening right now to reduce deficit? How will decreasing revenue decrease deficit? I admit to my stupidity. There must be some accounting that says if we reduce our income, we can have more money. Please!!!!! Tell me how that is done. What I think is being said is if we lower (why not just get rid of) taxes on business, they will want to hire more people here in the United States. The only thing preventing a business from hiring and bringing jobs back to the US is taxes. The vast majority of businesses would never use that savings in tax to just beef up the bottom line to increase their stock value. Or pay out bonuses to top executives. They will of course use that savings to hire more people. More people working will increase the tax revenue over and above anything the business was paying previously so that's how we lower deficit? That's the way the trickle-down economics worked before, right? It did work didn't it? I mean I don't remember it working but it must have, right?

Sanity -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 6:49:29 AM)
There are a lot of separate issues there that probably belong in their own threads, and its as though you're deliberately obfuscating the argument, its as if you're throwing out as many red herrings as you possibly can to try to divert attention away from the subject. quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened How did the Republican party decrease deficits in the 8 years prior to Obama? What are they doing to decrease deficits now? How did the bank bailout help the deficit? How does the Faith-Based Initiative reduce the deficit? How did gifting money to 9/11 victim/families reduce the deficit? Okay... that's in the past but what is happening right now to reduce deficit? How will decreasing revenue decrease deficit? I admit to my stupidity. There must be some accounting that says if we reduce our income, we can have more money. Please!!!!! Tell me how that is done. What I think is being said is if we lower (why not just get rid of) taxes on business, they will want to hire more people here in the United States. The only thing preventing a business from hiring and bringing jobs back to the US is taxes. The vast majority of businesses would never use that savings in tax to just beef up the bottom line to increase their stock value. Or pay out bonuses to top executives. They will of course use that savings to hire more people. More people working will increase the tax revenue over and above anything the business was paying previously so that's how we lower deficit? That's the way the trickle-down economics worked before, right? It did work didn't it? I mean I don't remember it working but it must have, right?

tazzygirl -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 6:54:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u No actually its your post that is bullshit...tell us Subrob,what happened in 1965...what changed? Kennedy increased Green Beret activity in Vietnam In 1965? Really? Read what I wrote, I didn't type 1965, Mike did. I know my history. mike asked you what happened in 1965, your response was green beret activity increase by a dead President. quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 What they want is an America that's the leader in innovation, manufactures the best affordable products in the world, a strong working middle class, baseball, hot dogs, & apple pie. They want city, county, state & federal government to stop trying to regulate and tax to death what they buy, eat, smoke, or drink. Basically they want 1948-1965 back. Everything else you've read in this thread so far is bullshit, with Merc being the exception. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3139474 And, yes, you did type 1965.

mnottertail -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 6:55:48 AM)
If the subject is rising deficits and she is asking how those that are saying as a party or a coalition tha we need to lower them have demonstrated their domain of this in the past, so as to judge how they might fare in the future, it is hardly red herring, it is decidedly on topic. Ron

flcouple2009 -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 6:55:52 AM)
How about more like she actually wants you to say something meaningful, which you never do.

slvemike4u -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 7:14:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity They want the deficit reduced, primarily. The only reason Obama's a focal point is that he seems to be deliberately trying to make the deficits so high that they destroy us. Wether its deliberate or not is hard to say but thats the way we are headed, to deficits that are so bad that there will be no choice other than to default on our debt, much like Greece. All the partisan hype you're hearing from the left about how hateful they are or how radical they are is pure bull. This is all about the deficits, first and foremost. And all the partisan hype you are hearing from the right has to do with a Democrat being in the White House....where were all of these idiots when their boy Bush was running up deficits waging war? This is all about who is spending the money and what he is and isn't spending the money on!

Musicmystery -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 7:18:25 AM)
quote: there will be no choice other than to default on our debt, much like Greece. Not at all like Greece. Greece isn't 1/5 of the world's economy, for one thing. Bring the deficit and debt down, yes. But we are ages away from default. Long before that would happen, we'd have trouble borrowing money, and interest rates would soar. Instead, interest rates are still quite low.

slvemike4u -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 7:19:38 AM)
You noticed all of that did you tazzy...and he still hasn't come back.Perhaps he feels he has already revealed far too much in the area of "Which America" he,personally wants back? Was it the separate water fountains that made America great.....or the segregated bathrooms?

Mercnbeth -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 7:19:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub What personal issues does the government now solve? You're kidding right? They try to solve a bunch; usually to the detriment of those it is directed to, but used to implement welfare programs for corporations or other special interest groups. They provide school children meals because parents are too lazy, can't be bothered, or have other priorities more important than providing food for them. They try to solve the problems of people who make the mistake of buying a house they couldn't afford. It's not the business of government to be involved trying to make up for a person's bad planning or bad decisions. quote: Without unions you would have started work when you were 12 and worked 12 hour days 6 days a week. In private industry unions have a valuable place. They must cooperate with management or, as in the case of GM, the union workers are out of work. In the public sector they leach off the public trust and become a sanctimonious voting block supporting any candidate that will raise their benefits and pay structure. They have no 'boss' and no accountability. The public has no option to fire them, reduce their pay scale, and pay additional taxes for individuals who can retire after 20 years with 100% of their salary. No private sector position is similar. None has a limitless source of funds. Public employee unions, their entitlements and their unfunded lifetime pensions, which was the subject of my comment if it wasn't clear, are the most detrimental factor to the economy. quote: Again what personal accountabilities are you taking about...examples please...sounds good but means nothing. You make a decision - you live with the consequence; ranging from the number of children you have, to affording college for them. You buy a house, or commit to any other contract, you live by it's stipulations, understanding it yourself or hiring an attorney to interpret for you. quote: It seems to me the successful are bailed out by the middle class....me. Sorry you feel persecuted and held back, and/or are envious. I can't address those problems or your perspective - it's a YOU problem or one which would be easier resolved without now fully disclosed government goal of "redistributing wealth". I'd agree it is the 'middle class', not working for the government or as a public employee union member, which is incurring the majority of the redistribution. quote: The majority of charity contributions in this country are private. So? quote: Again another repeat what personal choice is being taken away? Many - you just surrender them willingly. You can't drive a car without a seatbelt; you can't drive a motorcycle without a helmet. You MUST send your children to school, or provide home schooling directed to a government sanctioned curriculum. A man can walk down the street without a shirt - a woman can't. You can't build a house without it meeting the local government standards. Drugs you use must meet arbitrary government standards regarding their legality, or access over the counter or through prescription. Under the new Law you must purchase health insurance or be subject to penalties ranging from fines to incarceration. Enough, or do you need more examples? One more that fits into your next point - the government decides who you can and can't marry based on gender. quote: Gays cannot marry now so there is no going back. Interesting - I'd view it as moving forward, but if you think the issue is resolved under current circumstances prohibiting any other 'legal' union except man/woman - we are at an impasse. Contracts replacing the governmental standing would resolve it at all levels. quote: Religions depend on the charity of its congregations for contributions...why should it be taxed... Don’t you claim charity deductions on your income tax? Too bad - businesses rely similarly on their customers, religion shouldn't have any special exemption for whatever it is they are selling. It has nothing to do with the point, however feeling that the vast majority of tax money is wasted and counter productive, I take advantage of as many deductions as possible. quote: What laws are you talking about... Affirmative action for one - a black or woman is 'more equal' in the eyes of many employers because they must have a quota of them employed to qualify for government contracts. quote: damn. Yeah - but cursing the darkness - doesn't make it any lighter.

subrob1967 -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 7:38:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3139474 And, yes, you did type 1965. I did not type Green Beret and 1965 in the same sentence, but you knew that. So let me clarify my position, so even you on the left can understand it. quote: American advisors were present in Vietnam in the Eisenhower era in small numbers. Under Kennedy, that number increased to about 16,000. But it wasn’t until 1965 that President Lyndon Johnson sent hundreds of thousands of American combat troops streaming into the country. source

subrob1967 -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 7:47:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u You noticed all of that did you tazzy...and he still hasn't come back.Perhaps he feels he has already revealed far too much in the area of "Which America" he,personally wants back? Was it the separate water fountains that made America great.....or the segregated bathrooms? Yawn, is that your best? Really... How about I just paint you as a typical ass licking cowardly NY Liberal, who is afraid to even hold a gun, thinks his shit doesn't stink, and would love to suck Chuck Shumer's cock? You have no fucking clue what your typical Tea Party member wants, you're too stuck up to understand what "fly over" country really wants from the government. You can keep your gun bans, high taxes, high crime rates, and filth in NYC, we don't care. Just keep your pussified ideology to yourself.

slvemike4u -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 7:48:45 AM)
Perhaps some will buy that backtrack,but I'm a firm believer in the simplest explanation is often the right explanation...and your placing the timeline of an America you want back at 1965 seems to conincide pretty damm well with Johnson's passing of the Civil Rights Act in '64. No SubRob I'm going to stick to my version of what you meant...it just makes so much more sense....and makes all of your other viewpoints fit.

Sanity -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 7:54:26 AM)
Just like Greece. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-buffett-20100329,0,7563220.story quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Not at all like Greece. Greece isn't 1/5 of the world's economy, for one thing. Bring the deficit and debt down, yes. But we are ages away from default. Long before that would happen, we'd have trouble borrowing money, and interest rates would soar. Instead, interest rates are still quite low.

Musicmystery -> RE: Which America? (3/31/2010 7:57:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Just like Greece. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-buffett-20100329,0,7563220.story quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Not at all like Greece. Greece isn't 1/5 of the world's economy, for one thing. Bring the deficit and debt down, yes. But we are ages away from default. Long before that would happen, we'd have trouble borrowing money, and interest rates would soar. Instead, interest rates are still quite low. No---your article link supports exactly what I said: "The long-term problem here is not that the government eventually would default on its obligations. The danger is that it would create money to make those debts payable, a course that would lead to much higher inflation. Then, yields on even impeccable corporate bonds would climb with those of T-bills. The economy would also suffer as businesses and households scrambled to cope with the disruptive effects of soaring prices. It would suffer again if and when the government decided to curb inflation by driving up interest rates"

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.03125