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RE: Generational differences. - 3/31/2010 5:17:22 PM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: delicatelydirty
The reason new fem subs get snapped up quick in my opinion is often times there is a sense of vunerability and the old "sub frenzy" going on and predators smell blood in the water a mile away. Sometimes you get lucky and you find a man who is genuine and truly wants to guide you most times you get one of the affore mentioned perverts...

Don't forget the other side of the coin is that a lot of women are actively looking to be used. 

I had a first date earlier this month with a 24-year old.  Smart cookie, grad student in chemical engineering.  We met on a different site, and the sexual fantasies she told me about were all very sub.  We spent the day together, ended up at my hotel room, and she wanted us to get busy.  I sat her down and told her I thought she was more emotionally invested than I was.  She started crying and crying, and ended up running out of the hotel room.  She wouldn't let me drive her home, or to a friend's house.  This was the first day we had met in real life.  She urgently wanted to me sweep her off her feet, use her body, and be her everything.  Bottom line: I think I dodged a bullet here.  There's no way that relationship could have ended well.

If, instead, I had told her, "Okay, baby, let's get busy.  Show me what you got," I bet I would have been in for a hell of a ride that night.  The problem is, even if I showered 100 times, I'd still feel dirty.

Now I have friends with benefits, so it's easier for me to be ethical than some people, maybe.  I'm not denying myself for who knows how long if I tell a young lady that I want to take things slow.  My point, though, is: don't put it all on the guy.  Femsubs are at least as desperate to be taken as men are to take them.


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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Generational differences. - 3/31/2010 5:29:04 PM   
catize


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Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

where everyone is usually nice and complimentary and apologetic and sugar and spice and all that shit




quote:

but I thought I might offend someone.

If ya do offend, just make sure you apologize sweetly and sincerely about a gazillion times before, during and after---Apparently that makes it ok to have a f***ing opinion. And will ensure nobody listens to what that opinion might be!

~~end hijack~~

< Message edited by catize -- 3/31/2010 5:31:24 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Generational differences. - 3/31/2010 5:30:55 PM   
FetishRose


Posts: 212
Joined: 8/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Smutmonger,

I dissed a 19 year old who wanted to "be a better dominant"...because I think that 99% of 19 years can't even manage ANY relationship, let alone be a responsible dominant.

As for doing it so I can fuck little girls..ldon't make me laugh, they bore the fuck out of me. I don't even start getting interested till they are in their 30s and most of my recent partners have been my age or older. Now I realize I am probably not the norm but kids doing this I all too often find hysterical.

We have a bunch of TNG kids running around Sacramento right now and most can't keep a relationship together for more than a few months, let alone years, the level of drama they, as a group, produce could keep your average fat middle age bdsm group running for years.



As one of those Sacramento TNG-ers, I resent that remark! 
Actually, I don't resent it, since you are entitled to your opinion. However, I think drama and foolishness are personality traits, not age related ones.  There are plenty of drama-obsessed kinksters that rotate relationships every few weeks in all age groups.  There are also members of the TNG that have been with the same partner for most of their adult lives, and are, or are planning on, spending many more years with that same partner.  Just because we haven't been adults long enough to have decade long relationships, ours do still have value.

The the OP:
The beautiful thing about this community is its acceptance.  Not everyone, true, but there is a spot within the BDSM community for all kinds of people.  Being one of the "noobies" myself--that is, with less that 5 years of experience--with an equally new dominant...it can be hard.  Fortunately, like you say, building friends is the way to go.  Partners come later.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Generational differences. - 3/31/2010 5:31:00 PM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Don't forget the other side of the coin is that a lot of women are actively looking to be used. 




Sighsssss... I love those women

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Generational differences. - 3/31/2010 5:34:43 PM   
brainiacsub


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

where everyone is usually nice and complimentary and apologetic and sugar and spice and all that shit




quote:

but I thought I might offend someone.

If ya do offend, just make sure you apologize sweetly and sincerely about a gazillion times before, during and after---Apparently that makes it ok to have a f***ing opinion. And will ensure nobody listens to what that opinion might be!

~~end hijack~~


You ROCK...I don't care what your age or gender is.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Generational differences. - 3/31/2010 5:40:57 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Don't forget the other side of the coin is that a lot of women are actively looking to be used. 




Sighsssss... I love those women


Really? Did you miss the part where she got all hysterical?
I hate those women.

I'm a big fan of self-esteem, personally.


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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Generational differences. - 3/31/2010 5:43:07 PM   
Jeffff


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I quoted only one little piece...:)

I insist on self esteem. I also like em.........cute

< Message edited by Jeffff -- 3/31/2010 5:46:50 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Generational differences. - 3/31/2010 6:25:59 PM   
delicatelydirty


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Red Magic... I completely agree.... I was only looking at it from my perspective. Unfortunately Doms like you in my experience are the exception not the rule.  I know when I first discovered this part of myself I wish I had met someone like yourself, not the people I did.



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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Generational differences. - 3/31/2010 6:49:58 PM   
SimplyMichael


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There is a perfect thread on another site that amply illustrates the problem.

A "mentor" is advising this idiot who he calls a "profound" submissive. He is telling her she has found her soulmate and she is blissfully happy

We are telling her that she is about to ride a train off a cliff into a volcano just before the meteorite plumets down on top of her splitting the world open and spiraling the entire planet into the sun.

She is listening to him.

Now the people advising her that doom is around the corner are people like the owner of the largest and oldest dungeon in San Francisco and myself but WE are ignored because we are telling her what she doesn't want to hear.

She has been in therapy all her life, has tried to leave her marriage twice before, is leaving behind two kids, getting a divorce, leaving the US to go to ireland...after meeting the guy online two weeks ago...

The people who most need the advice don't want it...

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Generational differences. - 3/31/2010 7:57:43 PM   
AlexandraLynch


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Joined: 3/24/2008
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I learned everything I needed to know about domination from my 4'10" grandmother who had six sons. And from breeding and showing German Shepherd Dogs.

Topping, well, I'm still learning some techniques, but that's pretty straightforward to learn.


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RE: Generational differences. - 3/31/2010 8:34:15 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Don't forget the other side of the coin is that a lot of women are actively looking to be used. 




Sighsssss... I love those women



gggggggggeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzz what kind of fucking anteater are you...... love them... hell... I just use them!

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Generational differences. - 3/31/2010 9:18:12 PM   
Andalusite


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I didn't see the post in question, but I have read quite a few similar ones. I was 20 when I became a Domme, and my submissive and I were together for 5 years. We were both generally pretty mature, responsible, low-drama people. There are quite a few younger posters here who I think have a good, mature mindset - VC and pyroaquatic, for example. The maturity of the individual person is more important than chronological age, for the most part, although I personally didn't want to date anyone under 21 for various reasons. I disagree that nobody younger than that is interesting to talk with or intelligent, though!

Anyway, it seems like the "Ask A Mistress" forum is pretty positive toward most new Dommes and Tops, whether they are asking general questions on where to get started, or specific ones. The guys tend to get hassled a lot more, for some reason. As soon as I expressed an interest in finding a female playpartner or submissive, I had someone who wanted to play with me and my Master right away. I had been exclusively a submissive for about 3 years, so I was very up-front that I was a little rusty. I'm not sure if a single man would have quite as easy a time finding someone, but there definitely are bottoms who are willing to play with newbies (or people who need practice, or who are learning a new skill) out there.

In my area, we have tons of classes and other resources available for newbies and younger people, as well as more general ones that are open to everyone. Discussion groups for dominants, submissives, and switches, classes on service, classes on D/s and M/s, S/M and rope hands-on workshops, and so forth are all options. I've found that co-topping is especially useful for learning new physical play skills, but that generally requires spending some time getting to know people.

I've never been in a formal mentoring relationship, but I've asked advice and explored things with people, both verbally and physically. In general, I feel that people should wait until they are experienced in a particular area before giving advice on it.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Generational differences. - 4/1/2010 3:20:27 AM   
Focus50


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From: Newcastle, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

Age is not always coupled with maturity.

Just as intelligence (the big IQ) is not always coupled with being smart or worldly - or maturity, too....


quote:

It has to be learned-do you have anything of value you'd like to teach?

Apparently, I do.

Exactly what do you think it accomplishes when you advocate a "glass is 1/10th empty" position/perspective, as you did with your petulent (defensive?) reply to SimplyMichael; the one I quoted you on?

You're the fella who likes to talk in painfully laborious terms of "cognitive dissonance", presumably to present a superior persona to us mere mortals. So.... errrrr..., refer to my opening sentence of this post, grasshopper.



quote:

Or are you just here to be patronizing?

Well, yes and no. Considering you actually quoted me on it, I'm surprised you're not aware that I did say I'd be back to post on the actual topic. Surely you didn't get all distracted in your defensive haste?

Focus.


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Generational differences. - 4/1/2010 4:10:37 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
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From: Newcastle, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

I wonder at times about people accepting reasonable realities. In rare instances,I do see people with wide age differences getting along in bdsm. And I am very interested to see a younger generation getting involved these days-it wasn't like that back in the mid ninties when I started exploring this.

But I do wonder at the arrogance and lack of connection to reality I see in my own generation in this field. I'm older, overwieght-balding. I wear glasses. The wieght I can do something about-the rest-no.

Even then,I dated a 25 year old when I was 35. It was a bit like this song...frustrating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WIYnHYHd7E

This thread was prompted by seeing certain individuals here dissing and attempting to marginalize a young newcomer. And I really DO understand a hot young lady not being attracted to some guy who looks like a hot dog with a mid section embolism-who seems to want to make up for the lack of fuzz on top,by getting fuzzier everywhere else.

Wearing leather clothing that makes him look even MORE ridiculous-and copping a really really bad attitude over it all.

I'm just going to say this much. If you want to consider yourself an "Elder" in this sort of a community-try first to get over yourselves. There is no competition to be had for chicks with whom you are not going to have a firecracker's chance in hell anyhow. So be kind and show a little compassion to people who are going to follow you-or face rejection. This is why we have seperate groups and polarization now-selfish asshats.

I look back over time at being a new Top-and it was freaking hard. No one wants to do anything to help.

Except whine about the lack of experience-that they won't allow you to have. I remember-and I am HAPPY to give back.

Consider the possibility of having friends-even if they don't fuck you. It'll help you in a lot of ways that have nothing to do with your dicks.

Like respect.

Dunno about your nationality, but here in Oz, everything I see about the current crop of teens has led me to refer to them as the "ME Generation". They're all full of their personal rights and entitlements, including over each other, and have little respect or regard for anyone else. They want everything NOW. Yeah, I know, this is where you chime in cynically with "just like every other teenage generation before them".... Save it...!

NO, this is the age of the internet, including on your cell phone. Google takes you to everything you're even remotely interested in with all the uninhibited privacy imaginable, thanks to that little phone. And consequently/inevitably, we get teenage "doms" and (gasp) "masters" on CM wanting it all, NOW....

And like SimplyMichael, I usually don't pull my punches dealing with them. Now I'm from the faction that advocates Dom/mes (or subs, too) are a product mostly of Nature, with nurture playing a supporting role. We're born with it, which logically means we must've been teenage doms, too. But no, the only "dom" within me when I was a teen was a vanilla frustrated with girls who too often wanted to do things their way. Yes, a dom was in the making but, looking back, there was too much shit in life still to be learnt through "standard channels" - such as *responsibility* through making your own way in the adult world. So when I see a teenage dom come to CM to be a "better master", what I really see is some selfish, self-entitled arsewipe looking to skip pre-school and high school and go straight to college for the "good stuff".... I regard the world of BDSM as being "advanced level" relationships and, like most I know personally, did not come into the lifestyle till my 30's...

So I go at teen doms hard, to see what they're really made of. I especially do this because I believe one of the great attributes of a decent Dominant is the ability to remain calm and composed in stressful situations. And 9 times out of 10, what I get back is a foul-mouthed spray of indignance and petulence - game over; nothing left but the award ceremony for yours truly.... I can't recall his name but I've had a solitary one surprise me with his composure. Him, I helped out.

I'll add that I think it's a bit different for submissives in that they won't be leading a D/s - M/s relationship. So I don't have any problems with teenage subs - other than they're too young for *me*....

Focus.


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Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Generational differences. - 4/1/2010 4:44:07 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

But why not ask them to clarify-rather than being a condescending  asshat, and calling them immature for asking?

Is this not just showing your own emotional immaturity?


Because they aren't paying me! How much time do YOU have that you can devote time to handholding of idiots, submissive OR dominant?

When people ask really open, honest soul searching questions, the kind that come from the heart, I open up like a clam and share rather deeply, hell I have sent my number to more than a few CM people to use if they need to talk. However, someone asking "make me a better dom" isn't going to get much from me because he isn't ready to listen, if he was, he would be asking deeper questions.


Michael, I agree with the bulk of your argument but the only thing I disagree with you was bringing the age factor into this as it is not the issue, but rather emotional maturity is. While I can understand that there is often a correlation between age and emotional maturity, they are different.

I'm sure you are already aware of what will follow in your post and it isn't meant to school you but rather to offer my perspective.

Take any individual and if they are progressing normally (as opposed to retrogressing), regardless of their starting point of or their speed of progression, they should be becoming increasingly emotionally mature. What causes someone to become emotionally mature faster than another is often linked to upbringing and overcoming life issues.

I don't mean to drag any one particular person in this but she responded to the thread. VaguelyCurious is 22 and many have noticed that she wise beyond her years. What does this mean? She has relatively high emotional maturity compared to her counterparts. It is noticeable because it is different. We often don't expect this level of emotional maturity from an individual this young. But then, who are we comparing her to? The other 19 year old dominant (to which is referred to often in this thread—did a simple search of SimplyMichael) who comes here simply saying "I'm looking for a Dom/me to teach me to be a better Dom". I can totally understand why Michael and others on that thread had a major eye roll.

The thing is, though being a dominant isn't rocket science, nor is it the "be all and end all in life", it really requires for an individual to be inherently dominant and understand what that means. When I started out, I had no clue how to express it so I bottomed for a while hoping to get a better understanding and it helped. But other than asking someone close to me those types of heartfelt questions that Michael refers to in his response above, I didn't go around saying "I want to be a Domme, can someone help me become one?". Rather I did a lot of soul searching to discover the Domme within me and more importantly discover how I was going to express my dominance and not become a cookie cutter Domme.

And there lies the crux. No one can help us become a dominant but rather we need to feel our dominance and hone it. As we hone it, we can ask for specific advice, observe how others do it and learn. But being a dominant is not a skill to be learned (unlike topping), it is a personality trait to be discovered and understood. This is something that one understands with increased wisdom, maturity and emotional intelligence.

- LA


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RE: Generational differences. - 4/1/2010 6:37:05 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


Yeah, way to move a discussion forward, very profound....!

To summarise, the average teenager is just as able, responsible and competent as the average 50yo - agreed?

Now that I've popped a pressure valve, I guess I'll hafta return later and respond to the actual topic.... lol

Focus.



We are not asking the average teenager to do the mechanics on your car or even give us a good general discussion about what attributes a good dominant wants. We are talking here about a 19 year old guy that has an interest, probably with a girl of about 19!

Domination is often used by the clueless. There are no age barriers. There are many categories, from the mature man that got into this 6 months ago and tells everyone he was part of the 'Old Guard'. The steamroller dominant who goes from one to another, to another, to another because he just likes the chase but is never sure what to do with the goods. The expert who for some reason can't keep a relationship going but can never sit back and look at his mistakes The porn lover who sees this as access to younger females. The sort after, who gets things right, to the young guy who is just setting off on this journey and has asked for some help from his elders but very possibly doesn't need it because if he gets any help from all but one of the above, he's just going to make a fool of himself.

It always makes me laugh when I see how well received young ladies are in this world of ours and yet young guys are put down and belittled. I wonder why that is?!?



< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 4/1/2010 6:39:49 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Generational differences. - 4/1/2010 7:24:03 AM   
allthatjaz


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I agree with the op. I don't believe there is any excuse to be rude to someone unless they have truly earned it.
How do you know what questions to ask when you first come into this?

I love the clubs, munches and workshops in the UK because providing your over 18 or in some 21 there is no judgment on age. There may be some old bitch sitting in the corner snarling like a pitbull about 'too many youngsters' but they just get ignored!
I don't know why I notice it on here because I'm not looking for a young person but I do notice young potentially dominant guys getting picked up on their age and just like the op, it pisses me off.

I have been clubbing for many years and I remember a time when the male average age of a BDSM club was between 30 to 50 odd. That is clearly changing and we are getting more and more youngsters joining us and as we do, we see more of the younger females teaming up with the younger guys. Not all young fem subs want an older guy and from where I am sitting that is blatantly clear. The young Doms are probably not ready to settle down but then neither are the young females. Its experimentation time and good luck to them.


< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 4/1/2010 7:25:43 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Generational differences. - 4/1/2010 7:53:12 AM   
Andalusite


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
So when I see a teenage dom come to CM to be a "better master", what I really see is some selfish, self-entitled arsewipe looking to skip pre-school and high school and go straight to college for the "good stuff".... I regard the world of BDSM as being "advanced level" relationships and, like most I know personally, did not come into the lifestyle till my 30's...

So I go at teen doms hard, to see what they're really made of. I especially do this because I believe one of the great attributes of a decent Dominant is the ability to remain calm and composed in stressful situations. And 9 times out of 10, what I get back is a foul-mouthed spray of indignance and petulence - game over; nothing left but the award ceremony for yours truly.

Why don't you go after those middle-aged Doms just as hard - you know, the ones who spent years in unfulfilling vanilla relationships, then divorced or cheated on their spouse because they decided D/s was important to them after all? Granted, a few of them are able to move seamlessly with their spouse from vanilla into D/s or M/s or kink, and some others have very responsible poly relationships, but a lot of vanilla folks aren't open to either of those options, or their kinky partner doesn't even *try* to discuss it with them. I don't understand why you are advocating that people pursue relationships that they know right from the start are not what they want or need. D/s and M/s delve into areas that involve a great deal of trust and responsibility, but people can be hurt and harmed in vanilla relationships as well.

Seriously, some younger people are immature and self-centered, but I know a lot of great, mature, responsible teens. Most late-teen and early-twenties girls have no interest whatsoever in submitting to or dating men in their 30's or above - some are open to older folks, but a lot want a partner who is in the same phase of life as they are. Of course, some will make some mistakes as they figure things out, but that is true of vanilla relationships as well. I think it's rather immature of you to deliberately provoke people into arguments. Yes, grace and tact under pressure is a good characteristic for anyone to have, particularly if they are Dominant. I try to get an idea of how someone handles anger or other negative emotions before I get involved with them. I don't feel the need to test random strangers in that way, though.

When my submissive and I started dating, we had met about a year and a half previously, and had been hanging out for 4-5 days out of the week together, with a group of our friends. So, we had the opportunity for a lot of trust and respect to develop very organically, before the first date. Initially, he only brought up wanting to be tied up and spanked, rather than a D/s relationship, but that developed within the first couple of months together, and deepened and intensified over the 5 years we were together.

Personally, I disagree that dominance is a personality trait or "nature," for me, it is an interaction with the specific person. Some people push my dominant buttons, others push my submissive buttons, most are egalitarian/neutral.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 4/1/2010 8:14:23 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Generational differences. - 4/1/2010 12:13:53 PM   
switch2please


Posts: 494
Joined: 12/5/2008
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Disclaimer: I'm one of these young'uns. Please judge me now, and decide to either acknowledge my conversational ability as an adult and hold me accountable for my fuck-ups, or smile and humor me and be unsurprised when I put my foot in my mouth.
Done? Ready? Okay then:

Some people do seem to be more inclined to dominate or submit, whether it's a conscious kinky choice or their everyday vanilla attitude towards authority. I believe this correlates to both nature and nurture, so some of it is instinctive behavior and some is brought out by their personal history. People with more life experience usually have a better idea of what they want and need in a relationship, and life experience can relate to age quantitatively but not necessarily qualitatively. ANY relationship can be difficult to maintain, regardless of age or age difference - a chance of success depends more on the characters of those involved. A fulfilling relationship has more to do with complimentary needs than age, regardless of whether your goals are bdsm-oriented or not.

To quote a movie (Waiting): "Yes, I am a pervert. Does this offend you?"
"Nope. I think most tainted youths end up being perverts."

I'm 20. I've been with my bf/primary partner for a bit over a year now. He'll be 41 in June. As far as generational differences go, we seem to be the exception rather than the norm. I've always preferred older men (though they're usually in the late 20s-early 30s range) and I'm the youngest woman he's dated since...well, ahem...since I was born...haha but we get along quite well, partly because we do actually share a few interests (feel free to gasp in shock and disbelief) and partly because he's a self-described pervert and I definitely qualify as happily tainted youth.

Another quote (Nude Men, great book): "Past is an attractive quality, which people don't often realize because we are seldom confronted with too little of it."

Though some people certainly have a preference for a certain age group, compatible life experience matters more than which generation you happened to be born in or which demographic you identify with.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Generational differences. - 4/1/2010 12:21:12 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:



Michael, I agree with the bulk of your argument but the only thing I disagree with you was bringing the age factor into this as it is not the issue, but rather emotional maturity is. While I can understand that there is often a correlation between age and emotional maturity, they are different.




This about sums up my view.... Emotional Maturity is not age specific.... but more than not it comes with some time under the belt.... to one side unfortunately... no amount of time is going to result in emotional maturity ... but on the plus side... there are some who are more emotional maturity with little time under their belt. I would also add that experiences do have an impact in this regard hense why age tends to be more along in many cases because experience tends to go with age.. but not always.

At times... Stupid is as Stupid does! no amount of experiences is going to change that fact no matter how much time they have to make the change.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 60
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