Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (Full Version)

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tightropes -> Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 2:08:08 PM)

It appears that a substantial number of dommes on CM who seek a male submissive want someone to make their lives "easier" and more "comfortable." They indicate a desire for a "service" submissive and state their expectation that he will cook, clean, run errands and otherwise perform tasks. As well, many tend to impugn the motives and bona fides of male submissives whose own profiles focus on sexual submission, bdsm or other activities they wish to share with a domme, and these males are often described as false, "do me" subs.

I’m curious how widespread this sentiment is among dommes. It seems to me that there are a good number of males who honestly consider themselves submissive who nonetheless aren’t seeking to be houseboys or errand boys to a woman. Many of these men work full time, manage their own households, and are seeking a relationship with a dominant woman who exercises control over them but who isn’t looking for a manservant to pick up after them. Rather, these men may seek a relationship not entirely unlike a vanilla relationship except authority is concentrated in the hands of the woman who makes the decisions, controls the man’s behavior, sets the course, and, depending on her predilections, enjoys imposing discipline for her pleasure, not as punishment. They may both work and, when it comes to errands and cleaning, they may even share the burdens.

Do you believe a man isn’t really submissive if he isn’t interested in performing menial tasks as a central part of his role vis-a-vis a domme? Is there room on CM or elsewhere for a male submissive to find a domme who isn’t interested in him mainly as a means to make her life easier?



Madame4a -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 2:19:21 PM)

I'm going to answer this from a bit of a different perspective.. mine -- I'm a domme (for CM purposes, otherwise I never use that term).  I have a relationship that includes a female boy, who is also my girlfriend, partner and butch.  That means she's many things to me and not simply my submissive.  If she runs an errand for me, its because she's my girlfriend... ditto all that other stuff.  I never looked for someone to be a part of my life to run errands, cook and clean -- although its great if they do those things too.

I think there are ALL kinds of relationships out there.. those based in sex, in partnerships, deep emotional bonds, service, play and all kinds of combinations of those things.  I don't think every male is a do-me sub -- though I've met many of them and I don't think every FemDomme around here is looking solely for an errand boy, but there's lots of stuff in between.

In the end, for most women, I'd suggest they simply pay for the services they need -- over lots and lots of years.. I've learned its a hell of a lot less effort and worth every penny.

To answer your last questions... no.. I don't believe that.. I think there are lots of people who are interested in lots of different things; there's room for everything and the key is to find one another...

quote:

ORIGINAL: tightropes

It appears that a substantial number of dommes on CM who seek a male submissive want someone to make their lives "easier" and more "comfortable." They indicate a desire for a "service" submissive and state their expectation that he will cook, clean, run errands and otherwise perform tasks. As well, many tend to impugn the motives and bona fides of male submissives whose own profiles focus on sexual submission, bdsm or other activities they wish to share with a domme, and these males are often described as false, "do me" subs.

I’m curious how widespread this sentiment is among dommes. It seems to me that there are a good number of males who honestly consider themselves submissive who nonetheless aren’t seeking to be houseboys or errand boys to a woman. Many of these men work full time, manage their own households, and are seeking a relationship with a dominant woman who exercises control over them but who isn’t looking for a manservant to pick up after them. Rather, these men may seek a relationship not entirely unlike a vanilla relationship except authority is concentrated in the hands of the woman who makes the decisions, controls the man’s behavior, sets the course, and, depending on her predilections, enjoys imposing discipline for her pleasure, not as punishment. They may both work and, when it comes to errands and cleaning, they may even share the burdens.

Do you believe a man isn’t really submissive if he isn’t interested in performing menial tasks as a central part of his role vis-a-vis a domme? Is there room on CM or elsewhere for a male submissive to find a domme who isn’t interested in him mainly as a means to make her life easier?



Lashra -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 2:22:58 PM)

quote:

Rather, these men may seek a relationship not entirely unlike a vanilla relationship except authority is concentrated in the hands of the woman who makes the decisions, controls the man’s behavior, sets the course,


Then he does what she tells him to do even if it means cooking, cleaning and running errands. Otherwise he sounds like a bedroom sub, which is fine for some people, it just wouldn't work for me. I want the whole package.

~Lashra



LadyPact -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 2:38:19 PM)

Part of your question relates to real life coming into the picture.

OP, if you were in a relationship of any kind, wouldn't you expect the day to day matters that need to be taken care of?  Let's say you both have a full time job or school.  Add to that the mundane matters of the household (chores like cooking, laundry, etc).  Plus, you have whatever kind of social/family connections that take up a certain amount of your time.  OK.  Everything is still even at this point.

Now you have to add those things that happen in an authority imbalanced/BDSM dynamic.  Who is it that expends more energy for play?  The top.  Who is it that spends her time and energy in learning new areas of play?  The top.  Who is it that needs to spend time practicing with that new whip so she doesn't cause you any damage?  The top.  So, if everything was 50/50 before, now you have the top putting in her half plus. 

Being a real person with a real life, where is the time that the top is putting all of this supposed to come from?  Unless, you've figured out a way that I can practice accuracy with a whip while I am simultaneously picking up the dry cleaning.  [8D]



BoiJen -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 2:39:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tightropes
... authority is concentrated in the hands of the woman who makes the decisions, controls the man’s behavior, sets the course


I just have to ask...if this is where the authority is desired to be between the two individuals in question (assumed to be male and female) the natural course of things is that the person with authority would be able to ask something and expect the request to be fulfilled. That includes errands.

I'm just not sure how you suppose that an authority based relationship would work if the person in charge weren't able to ask and expect that errands be carried out.

boi



GraciousLady -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 2:40:15 PM)

What Lashra said.



Lockit -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 2:41:28 PM)

Whatever needs to be done in life, needs to be done and I believe that in a partnership, everyone has to do these things no matter what the dynamic is. The dominant's that I tend to respect are not lazy, do not wish to lay around and eat bon-bon's while someone slaves away for them, nor do they wish to become infantile in life and have someone do everything for them.

I have often gotten a hard time from submissive males because I did so much for myself that they felt I wasn't allowing them to do enough. Lil topper's! lol

I've had relationships where the male stayed at home and took care of me, while I worked to support us. There are some who are submissive only in the bedroom, but I never had one of those. Don't see myself having one either.

I want a life partner and you are correct in one thing... I want a partner to make my life easier as I plan to make his easier too! Give and take... But... it is fun besides the normal day to day, to have someone pamper you. Just like I will plan wonderful kinky times, special dinner's or outings... whatever... I expect to have someone do the same for me. If it makes my life easier for him to take out the trash and do the dishes, it makes it easier for me to see to other things that enhance our relationship.

Those I am concerned with are those who keep score or who feel resentful of my request's or those of other dominant's before they even know the score. They are looking out for themselves, projecting and worrying about things that might not even come into play with someone they might meet. Those that are covering their wallet but not their ass, because they want their ass beat, but they are afraid it will take from their wallet. Or those worried about what they think a dominant will do or be, before they even know a dominant or their dominant. Preconceived ideas can wreak havoc where none is.



Madame4a -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 2:42:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

  Unless, you've figured out a way that I can practice accuracy with a whip while I am simultaneously picking up the dry cleaning.  [8D]



This makes me grin as I was going to mention that in fact I did take in and will pick up the dry cleaning this week as my work situation allows me the time to do that.. my darling boy is working about 65+ hours a week... I'm the errand boy right now...

now.. I have to figure out how to practice with my single tail while on my way to the dry cleaners...



Voodali -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 3:08:10 PM)

     The posts above mine sum up many of my own feelings on the matter, but here is my personal perspective. When a guy contacts me, wanting me to fulfill his kink with no strings attached, no emotional involvement, no attraction, no money changing hands, etc....where is the balanced give and take?  If I were to take him up on his offer, this is how it might go: I do him, he goes home, I remain energetically depleted, and don't feel at all satisfied, just used (unless, maybe I am using him as a demo bottom for learning purposes). Now if, by some crazy chance, I happened to find him extremely attractive, and he happened to feel the same about me, it might be worth it, but if he still doesn't want to carry his weight as a sub by performing submissive tasks, it just won't work for me for more than an hour or so.  As a domme, I am extremely attracted to a submissive personality.  That is not to say I want to fuck every submissive I meet, but that I genuinely admire and want to spend time with males who shrug off the male stereotype of selfish lazy horniness. I am likewise turned off by, and do not wish to spend time with men who just want to take (pain, play, sex, energy and so forth) and not give.
    That said, I do not fault guys for admitting that they don't want to do errands.  Its just an orientation incompatible with my own. There is probably someone for everyone, and what a guy who wants to be "done" without being an errand boy probably needs is a kinky vanilla girlfriend (if that makes sense), a sadist or top who doesn't care about D/s or a pro domme.
    As for whether or not a man is submissive if he doesn't want to perform chores, that is a matter of semantics.  I would tend to call him a "masochist" or a "bottom" rather than a sub.  Sadly, CM doesn't really give us that option when we create our profiles, which contributes to much confusion. 



Voodali -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 3:19:15 PM)

I forgot to add, that in 24/7 relationships I have seen that worked, I have noted that the dominant typically was aware that the submissive worked a job, and wasn't able to just slave away 24/7.  Most people I know in real life who identify as dominants, myself included, frequently do their own laundry, cooking, dishes and so on, and occasionally indulge in service.  I don't think most of us would run a boy into the ground with exhaustion all day every day.



OttersSwim -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 4:00:51 PM)

In a "relationship" there are no "menial tasks". 

Service is love made manifest and it goes both ways.  Emptying the dishwasher has never been more rewarding for either of you, because you both know that if it does not get emptied and the dirty dishes loaded, you don't play tonight because your environment is chaos.

Life is 90% pure vanilla love, 10% fantasy of shit that never actually happens like your fantasies say they will...



LadyNTrainer -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 5:51:50 PM)

It totally depends on the individual.  During a week when my subby is already slammed and giving up things like getting enough sleep or sit-down mealtimes just to get his obligations met, unless I'm just as stressed, he's been ordered to nap or tend to his personal needs while I deal with dinner and dishes.  It's less about who's dominant than about who realistically has the time and energy this week to get the stuff done that needs to get done. 

The reality is that if he and I are to have any playtime at all, the to-do list of adult real world responsibilities needs to be taken care of first.  If he has no energy or time left after running through his personal to-do list, the play isn't going to be so great if it happens at all, because he'll be low-energy and exhausted and short on sleep.   So if I want to get any, to put it crudely, I'd better not run him ragged.  If I want to be sure I'm gonna get a piece of subby tail, I can even help with his to-do list so he has an extra hour in his evening that I can take advantage of.

Obviously he doesn't get to slack off while I do the dishes if he isn't legitimately being stressed by work or other basic responsibilities that he can't and shouldn't ethically dodge.  He does not get to fuck off and amuse himself as a higher priority than making me happy.  But anything I ask him to do, I'm definitely going to be taking his scheduling needs into consideration as well as his legitimate need for things like enough sleep, decent meals and some amount of personal time. 

I expect my submissive partners to be willing to serve, and also to trust that I am not interested in pushing them past healthy boundaries that actually work in real life.  Within those boundaries, yes, you WILL at times be doing my dishes and serving me dinner, naked and on your knees.  But if you've just worked a 12 hour day and your mom's in the hospital, then I'll be bringing dinner for both of you to the hospital and don't worry about the dishes.  That's how it works in real life BDSM relationships, at least for me and mine.



Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 6:21:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

I expect my submissive partners to be willing to serve, and also to trust that I am not interested in pushing them past healthy boundaries that actually work in real life.  Within those boundaries, yes, you WILL at times be doing my dishes and serving me dinner, naked and on your knees.  But if you've just worked a 12 hour day and your mom's in the hospital, then I'll be bringing dinner for both of you to the hospital and don't worry about the dishes.  That's how it works in real life BDSM relationships, at least for me and mine.



Quoted for emphasis.

Oftentimes you read us women talking about service because we are trying to put some reality into the fantasy. Many men come on here so focused on their kinks that they often forget that real life day-to-day situations take priority.

I think most dominant women are not interested in over-burdening their submissive partner. What I expect is for a male submissive to understand that it isn't always going to be leather and whips - there are chores that need to be handled.

Since I personally am looking for a relationship, and not just play sessions, whomever enters my home will be just as responsible for the daily chores as the rest of the members of this home. Perhaps a bit moreso, depending on his schedule, but, if I want to actually play with him at all (which I would want to do), I have to allow him some downtime, some rest, just like I allow for myself.



Venatrix -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 7:12:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tightropes

It appears that a substantial number of dommes on CM who seek a male submissive want someone to make their lives "easier" and more "comfortable."


Even when I dated vanilla, I expected a man to make my life easier and more comfortable, otherwise, why would I spend time with him? If I'm going to do everything myself, I may as well do it just for myself and not have the added burden of doing things for a man, in addition.

I'm sorry to say this, but your post makes you sound like a user. You want your kink satisfied, yet you offer nothing in return. Why would a woman be interested in that? If that's not who you are, you might want to re-think your approach.



CarrieO -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 7:32:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tightropes

Do you believe a man isn’t really submissive if he isn’t interested in performing menial tasks as a central part of his role vis-a-vis a domme?

I would question a man's desire to be part of a power exchange dynamic if he's unwilling to do what the dominant person in such a dynamic asks him to do.  Being a submissive isn't the same as being a bottom, in my opinion. 
 
There are tasks my employer requires of me that may seem "menial" but still part of the job description. I do these tasks because my employer plays a dominant role in our little work dynamic...she signs the paychecks. [;)] This was all discussed prior to me accepting the position.  Much like a Domme and sub's need for talk before action.

Is there room on CM or elsewhere for a male submissive to find a domme who isn’t interested in him mainly as a means to make her life easier?

Are you saying you aren't interested in helping your partner in order to please her?  Who defines "menial"?  Wouldn't your domme/partner be making your life easier and more pleasurable by fulfilling certain desires you have?  What if she chose to do your laundry (I know...shocking!) because you were busy with work...wouldn't that make your life easier?  Every relationship (oh god...I said the "R" word) requires a bit of give and take in order for it to work.  When you choose to become part of a D/s dynamic, that comes with give and takes that may be more amplified. 
 
If you want to be a reciever of pleasure and sensation and only explore sexual submission then make it clear that's all you're interested in. 

Personally, I like a well-rounded man who can make my life easier, be sexually submissive and enjoy the little things that make a relationship prosper.  That will be different for each woman, you know.




BeMyProperty -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 7:39:29 PM)

Quick reply. No, of course he doesn't have to be, but that is one of the common types sought.

He should be willing to do some, or he'll have a hard time finding a good woman. Like you said, perhaps they share. Perhaps they have hired help sometimes.

While obviously there are all kinds of roles and people, if he is not the houseboy type, he might need certain qualities in order to have a good chance with Dommes.



AlexandraLynch -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 7:44:59 PM)

I have a bad foot.  I have a given amount of standing I can do in a day.  Now, which is a better use of my standing time; me doing the dishes, or me flogging the sub? Cause often it comes down to that. I can do one or the other, not both.

If he's smart, he will offer to do the dishes naked. I will watch him do the dishes while I sit down. Then when the dishes are done I'll flog him. Double the kink, as far as I see it.



AAkasha -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 7:52:53 PM)


One of the biggest setbacks of the whole "service" submissive thing is that now many subs (or bottoms, whatever) see "service" as a currency they can use for barter. In other words, submissives/slaves/bottoms/kinksters - whoever - sometimes view anything labeled as "service" as equity they can use to barter, trade or expect kink.  They don't "do nice things" because they are a gentleman.  They do it because they believe that by being a submissive and doing errands, cleaning, whatever, they have moved into a category called "service sub" and can therefore expect kink in return. Or, at least a domineering sneer and barked orders.

Newflash for subs:  Totally vanilla guys often are VERY generous of spirit and time, and actually enjoy washing a lady's car, running her errands, helping her clean up or cooking a meal - and they DON'T expect to have to do it naked, to wear panties at the same time or that by doing so they have "earned" kink time.

Akasha



BKSir -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 7:55:17 PM)

Well, I'm not a she-dom, but, still one of those d-types, so...

Does he HAVE to be?  No.  Not if that's not part of what the d-type requires.  I require it to a certain extent though.  God knows I need a personal secretary.  So, that's part of the bargain around here.  That's just how it is.  Dishes, running to the store, helping sweep, mop, clean the cat boxes, reminding me of dates/times/appointments/etc.  But, notice the word "helping" in there?  If I wanted a maid, I'd hire a maid.

There's so much more to it.  He's in the household, so he has his duties, just as I have mine, M. has his, and so on and so forth.  Simply part of the household.

Does it mean I love him any less?  Not at all.  In fact, it helps the relationship in some ways, I think.  If he's remiss in his duties, the reprecussions are more immediate, and then we move on.  The feelings are still there though.

Just my dos centavos, take it for what it's worth. :)

Edit to add:  It doesn't hurt if he looks good in a maid's uniform though either. ;)



Lockit -> RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? (3/31/2010 8:05:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


One of the biggest setbacks of the whole "service" submissive thing is that now many subs (or bottoms, whatever) see "service" as a currency they can use for barter. In other words, submissives/slaves/bottoms/kinksters - whoever - sometimes view anything labeled as "service" as equity they can use to barter, trade or expect kink.  They don't "do nice things" because they are a gentleman.  They do it because they believe that by being a submissive and doing errands, cleaning, whatever, they have moved into a category called "service sub" and can therefore expect kink in return. Or, at least a domineering sneer and barked orders.

Newflash for subs:  Totally vanilla guys often are VERY generous of spirit and time, and actually enjoy washing a lady's car, running her errands, helping her clean up or cooking a meal - and they DON'T expect to have to do it naked, to wear panties at the same time or that by doing so they have "earned" kink time.

Akasha



Exactly! I don't do barter. Most every vanilla man I have been with was very helpful to the point of amazingly helpful. When d/s or bdsm becomes a thing of bartering or a positioning/manipulative process... I will be very happy to return to vanilla men, I can make kinky. (smile) It isn't difficult to entice them, but it is getting more difficult to find submissive men who are willing to treat me with the same respect.

Something to think about... for sure!



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