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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The "sovereign citizen" movement is a loosely organized collection of groups and individuals who have adopted a right-wing anarchist ideology originating in the theories of a group called the Posse Comitatus in the 1970s. Its adherents believe that virtually all existing government in the United States is illegitimate and they seek to "restore" an idealized, minimalist government that never actually existed. To this end, sovereign citizens wage war against the government and other forms of authority using "paper terrorism" harassment and intimidation tactics, and occasionally resorting to violence.

Just curious, what part of their beliefs makes them a "right-wing" group?

to start with their self identification. Then of course is their belief system.

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The "sovereign citizen" movement is a loosely organized collection of groups and individuals who have adopted a right-wing anarchist ideology originating in the theories of a group called the Posse Comitatus in the 1970s. Its adherents believe that virtually all existing government in the United States is illegitimate and they seek to "restore" an idealized, minimalist government that never actually existed. To this end, sovereign citizens wage war against the government and other forms of authority using "paper terrorism" harassment and intimidation tactics, and occasionally resorting to violence.

Just curious, what part of their beliefs makes them a "right-wing" group?

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These public servants have a choice: Swear an OATH to support the U.S. Constitution OR be replaced immediately or even Arrested. Any failure on their part to comply after 72 hours is considered to be an act of TREASON.

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The "sovereign citizen" movement is a loosely organized collection of groups and individuals who have adopted a right-wing anarchist ideology originating in the theories of a group called the Posse Comitatus in the 1970s. Its adherents believe that virtually all existing government in the United States is illegitimate and they seek to "restore" an idealized, minimalist government that never actually existed. To this end, sovereign citizens wage war against the government and other forms of authority using "paper terrorism" harassment and intimidation tactics, and occasionally resorting to violence.

Just curious, what part of their beliefs makes them a "right-wing" group?

to start with their self identification. Then of course is their belief system.

They call them selves a right-wing group? Or is that the label that has been stuck on them by the ADL and other watchdog groups? Or is it that all groups that have "White-Supremacist" elements are right-wing?

I didn't realize anarchy was a right or left position. Guess I was wrong.

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Evenin,

well I did not post either of the threads on the subject but I am well informed on the topic and did explain it accordingly.  So I am not "pushing it" as such unless you mean that my views agree with "The Rule of Law" rather than the abuses that are going on in the trust and debtor creditor world with these invisible contracts.  For instance by the time they get done hypothecating a lousy traffic ticket they will hypothecate it up to 2 million bucks.   Its all about money not justice, they want your money, that was the sole reason for the patriot act.

The problem is that the better people behave the more they have to impose on and into peoples lives to fuel the system.  Its just history repeating itself....

Its really a lot easier to get them to take their oath and put it on record because that is a pure clear cut violation of the public trust that even people who have zippo understanding of the law can immediately connect with.   Trying to get them out when they violate your rights in office has a huge delay (for governors) by the time you run it through court and ......... 

Judges are the most important imo, because they can and do collude to dismiss evidence for your defense.  If you are fighting another party not related to the government then you might get a fair hearing but anytime you go up against the government they stack that deck so high against you that you cant see the top.

Militia?

I think you are confused with another thread.  This about fighting with pen and paper and with backing from the existing provost marshal.  Be careful about what ron says because he enjoys completely mischaracterizing issues that run contrary to the fraudulent government we now enjoy that does not understand the word "re-present".

Do you believe that the only tool to defend the constitution at the hands of a militia are weapons?

That is what a Militia is, is a group of armed people, with the purpose of up-holding and protecting that constitution to insure that the government stays in check. (not the people)

I believe that the pen and the ballot are the primary tools to be taken in hand. I just worry that too many folks will take the extreme stance of believing that the best way to institute change is via violent revolution.

You are unfortunately correct.  I have talked with many people where they often are the ones to bring thee subject up when I am out and about in public and hey they know that it does not matter who you vote in or out its the same crap all the time.  Those are the people who do not study law because they also know how corrupt the courts are.  They have long since come to the conclusion that the only way to fix this government is at the barrel of a gun, and how many people study law to the extent they can defend themselves in court?  1 in 5000 maybe?  So their solution is what they have as their means and that is a gun.

Don't be mistaken, if the day ever comes that it is the only way to guarantee the constitution is defended, I will stand my post.

Well again unfortunately if these people do not get this turned around I fear we will all be in a war.  I am hoping that these banks dont try to punish this country to badly if these guys pull it off because now days they know about wall street too and you know where they will head next.

On the other hand, when you spout off with the same thing over and over, even when it doesn't apply to the topic or subject being discussed, it only detracts from some of the message that you are trying to get across. Whether I agree with it or not, the message becomes lost when the messenger acts like a drunken crack addict with a stutter. Know what I mean?

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK. Do you know of any left-wing white supremacist groups?

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My point is that bigots are bigots, and trying to tar the other side with the beliefs of these bigots is insane and only fuels the fire. Those that believe in anarchy don't want either side, left or right, to be in charge.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The "sovereign citizen" movement is a loosely organized collection of groups and individuals who have adopted a right-wing anarchist ideology originating in the theories of a group called the Posse Comitatus in the 1970s. Its adherents believe that virtually all existing government in the United States is illegitimate and they seek to "restore" an idealized, minimalist government that never actually existed. To this end, sovereign citizens wage war against the government and other forms of authority using "paper terrorism" harassment and intimidation tactics, and occasionally resorting to violence.

Just curious, what part of their beliefs makes them a "right-wing" group?

to start with their self identification. Then of course is their belief system.

They call them selves a right-wing group? Or is that the label that has been stuck on them by the ADL and other watchdog groups? Or is it that all groups that have "White-Supremacist" elements are right-wing?

I didn't realize anarchy was a right or left position. Guess I was wrong.

Guess you were. Why not try and make your case that the sovereign citizen, posse comitatus and christian identity movements (all hopelessly intertwined) are left wing. Of course you will have to deal with teh hole self identification thing with more than a handwave or is this simply your rather weak 'no true scotsman' complaint about them being called right wing.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
Guess you were. Why not try and make your case that the sovereign citizen, posse comitatus and christian identity movements (all hopelessly intertwined) are left wing. Of course you will have to deal with teh hole self identification thing with more than a handwave or is this simply your rather weak 'no true scotsman' complaint about them being called right wing.

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK. Do you know of any left-wing white supremacist groups?

Of course, you do have all of the "anti-Zionist" groups. Those are mostly described as left-wing. Of course, one would also have to include socialists as being on the left, which would include the National Socialists.

Shall we move on to left-wing black supremacist groups?

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ORIGINAL: Silence8

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK. Do you know of any left-wing white supremacist groups?

Of course, you do have all of the "anti-Zionist" groups. Those are mostly described as left-wing. Of course, one would also have to include socialists as being on the left, which would include the National Socialists.

Shall we move on to left-wing black supremacist groups?

The point is made that you have to go fishing. Also, I'm under the impression that National Socialists in the U.S. identify with the right, and are widely classified as being extreme right.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
Guess you were. Why not try and make your case that the sovereign citizen, posse comitatus and christian identity movements (all hopelessly intertwined) are left wing. Of course you will have to deal with teh hole self identification thing with more than a handwave or is this simply your rather weak 'no true scotsman' complaint about them being called right wing.

Do you even know what the posse commitatas act was about?  Now I know it completely tears you apart that those damn Christians are at it again and do you know why?  You can go into any court in this country and if you KNOW how to handle yourself and you KNOW the Christian law you can defend yourself.   There is NO higher law in this country.  Though I realize you want to destroy the essence of all law since its roots are in religion.

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK. Do you know of any left-wing white supremacist groups?

Glad that you asked. Hell, I am sure that Ken will even chime in on this one. For starters, we can simply look at the heart of the old Dem machine in Chicago, but that isn't particularly a group, it was more of a protect the neighborhoods kind of thing, Bridgeport, Brighton, and Canaryville. These were also big strongholds for the guys that like to wear their bed linens out and "light crosses". Heck, I even remember the nice big white fist with the words "White power" that was on display on the side of a red brick bank, right around the corner from "hiz honor" and the current mayor's homes. Shall we look at policy, and the great divide, or perhaps the reason that Rev. Jackson marched so many times on these neighborhoods? You should see some of the pictures of various alderman protesting the bussing in of minorities during the '70s, ah good times.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
Guess you were. Why not try and make your case that the sovereign citizen, posse comitatus and christian identity movements (all hopelessly intertwined) are left wing. Of course you will have to deal with teh hole self identification thing with more than a handwave or is this simply your rather weak 'no true scotsman' complaint about them being called right wing.

Do you even know what the posse commitatas act was about?  Now I know it completely tears you apart that those damn Christians are at it again and do you know why?  You can go into any court in this country and if you KNOW how to handle yourself and you KNOW the Christian law you can defend yourself.   There is NO higher law in this country.  Though I realize you want to destroy the essence of all law since its roots are in religion.

Do you even know the difference between the Posse Comitatus Act and the racist violent groups that call themselves Posse Comitatus?

Well well now how about you list every one of these offenses you want to claim?  Find some nice jewish site that lumps them in with nazis and the kkk and and of course anyone who identifies as an evil Christian.  I cant wait!

As to that christian law bullshit, you are simply wrong. If the US was based on Moasaic law then what are teh crimes for not honoring mothers and fathers? What is the criminal punishemnt for lusting after my neighbor's wife? Or maybe you meant the 600+ laws of Leviticus well i had shrimp for dinner Tuesday and don't seem to be facing indictment. Or maybe you meant the law according to the sermon on the mount? I missed where society simply 'turns the other cheek' when wronged.

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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"What these traitors are doing is trying to hold a coup and they're hoping the rest of us just go along. "

Wow. Just wow. I am speechless.

T

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne




Do you or do you not support the laws of this country in that these guys have no authority to hold a public office in the public trust without swearing or affirming the oath to the constitution?

Simple question.