RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!!

RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 1:50:45 PM)
homodoxically I would say its what ortho aint. may include gays in some circles.

slvemike4u -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 1:56:22 PM)
LOL,you sure are a funny mother.....not nearly as funny as me...but funny all the same.[:D]

brainiacsub -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 2:05:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail yesterdays heresy is todays heterodoxy and tomorrows orthodoxy. You know, that stuff about no yesterday and no tomorrow. All you got is this actual "now-ness." The past is gone, and as for the future-- [ Blows Raspberry ] - from Babe, Pig in the City

Thadius -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 3:53:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub FR to you Thad (to avoid the long post), I didn't say that administrations were racist, I said Conservative policies seek to maintain the status quo. Racism is often a product of the uneducated. By the time someone aspires to the highest levels of govt service, they should be beyond that (not always, but mostly). I expect that both Republican and Democratic administrations would strive for diversity. But Bill Maher said it best: Every Republican is not a racist, but if you are a racist, chances are you are a Republican. My response to Merc should clarify my position on racial bias. As for religion, holding on to antiquated traditions at the expense of growth or enlightenment is not always a good thing. History is riddled with civilizations that died because that were unwilling to modernize or adapt to a changing world. I don't have a problem with people's personal faith and how they choose to worship or express it FOR THEMSELVES, but Conservatives want the govt to preserve these traditions and favor them over the religious traditions of other faiths. This is anti Constitutional, and the Libertarians live and die by every word of the Constitution, except for the ones I've met on CM who are eager to make exceptions when it's counter intuitive to their social conservative values. Again, it makes me wonder. Wow, where to start? I guess jumping in with both feet and getting to your quote of Bill Maher, since you believe he states it best. Those same chances are that you are a Democrat or an Independent. As for the status quo, I guess history has already been rewritten, because I seem to remember it being the Dems that philibustered the Civil Rights Act, and one of them is still serving in the Senate. It must be real easy to repeat the same lie over and over, until finally that lie sticks and sounds like the truth. For the record I think there are racists in all walks of life, and from all demographics, but you are entitled to believe that it is only happening in one party. Can you give me an example of conservatives trying to have government preserve one religious tradtion over the traditions of other religions? I have actually noticed something a little different, that it is atheists trying to prevent various religions from expressing their beliefs, and that goes down to even the individual level (not allowing a coach or teacher to participate in a prayer with students even if it is student initiated). You bring up the Constitution, to which I will simply mention that 9 of the 13 colonies had official state religions at and after the ratification of the Constitution. The obvious conclusion to draw from the wording and the actual goings on of the time is that CONGRESS (the federal) shouldn't be involved in starting or restricting any religion. You know like the nations of various countries had done back across the Atlantic, the founders wanted no interference from a centralized government into the religious practices of the various states or their municipalities. Seems quite simple to me. I will write more in awhile, I am headed out for dinner, and wanted to reply so that you had a chance to read and respond.

Elisabella -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 3:54:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub Elisabella, I agree with you 100%, but when we talk about poverty in this country there is still a great difference between black and white. Although neither of these environments are likely to produce wealthy bankers, the white Appalacian kid will just grow up poor and stupid, but the black inner city kid will end up dead or in jail. What too many Conservatives fail to see is that it's about environment and opportunity, not race. This is very true, one of the worst consequences of the 'war on drugs' is that it gives gangs so much power. But there, I don't believe affirmative action will help. The thing about affirmative action is that it's not for "poor black inner city people" it's for black people, period. And anyone who has to fill a racial quota is going to do it with educated middle class blacks who speak proper English...any university who gives scholarships based on race is also going to pick the best and the brightest of that race, not the kid who managed to graduate high school illiterate. So while in theory it would be helping the disadvantaged, it's actually just giving normal people a bit of a boost, it means the black kid who graduated private school doesn't have to take out student loans while his white classmate does, and the only way to justify that is to say the disadvantage is based solely in skin color, not anything else.

thishereboi -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 4:03:25 PM)
quote: I think I am nice to some and not so decent to others. Yes and sometimes you are down right brutal and sometimes it's deserved. quote: But I am confident that there are posters out here that you do really enjoy reading. Why is that? Yes, there are several. Some because I know them in the real world, some because I think they have something worthwhile to say, even if they are not always "nice" about it and others because they make me laugh. quote: Here is the deal. I doubt that brain gets much props for his ability to cut and paste just as I am sure that cuckmepls gets little play from Dommes unless they want to kill him. brain is just getting repetitive and I honestly think he is going to end up with an ulcer from worrying about what the US is doing. Thank god they have national health care. Bad thing is the threads he will start blaming it on the republicans and religious. As for cucky, can't really speak about it. He is actually the only person on CM to make it to my blocked list.

slvemike4u -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 4:19:26 PM)
boi,who you block is of course your business...and far be it from me to stick my nose in "your " business.....but(knew there was a but coming didn'y ya?)blocking cucky is just crazy.There is no more entertaining poster here in the Collarme universe...Hell when he goes off on gator rants I'm crying my eyes out and splitting my sides....the guy just cracks me up! Ah well,I guess everything comes down to taste....and you,unlike me , apparently have some.

brainiacsub -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 4:58:30 PM)
Thad, You take the position that all racism is bad equally, and I don't. I am not denying that some minorities hate whites, but whites being the dominant race and culture have a responsibility to wield power, authority and influence equitably. When people in power hold racist views, there is tremendous potential for great injustice. I don't want to get in to a tit for tat about individual cases of "reverse racism" to make a point that it's all equally bad. It's not. I have gone on record in these forums stating that atheists need to pick their battles better when it comes to fighting with Christians over public displays of religious symbols. But we should continue to fight any attempt for govt to recognize or support any official religion, whether at the state or federal level. Christians are notoriosly averse to accepting any religion other than Christianity. Glen Beck, mouthpiece for the Conservatives, did an entire show today about how the US is a Christian nation and the pursuit of secularism is anti-Constitutional and will result in the destruction of this country. Atheists should stand their ground.

thornhappy -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 7:00:43 PM)
How about the poor hispanics from South Central like I went to college with? None went to private or magnet schools. quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub Elisabella, I agree with you 100%, but when we talk about poverty in this country there is still a great difference between black and white. Although neither of these environments are likely to produce wealthy bankers, the white Appalacian kid will just grow up poor and stupid, but the black inner city kid will end up dead or in jail. What too many Conservatives fail to see is that it's about environment and opportunity, not race. This is very true, one of the worst consequences of the 'war on drugs' is that it gives gangs so much power. But there, I don't believe affirmative action will help. The thing about affirmative action is that it's not for "poor black inner city people" it's for black people, period. And anyone who has to fill a racial quota is going to do it with educated middle class blacks who speak proper English...any university who gives scholarships based on race is also going to pick the best and the brightest of that race, not the kid who managed to graduate high school illiterate. So while in theory it would be helping the disadvantaged, it's actually just giving normal people a bit of a boost, it means the black kid who graduated private school doesn't have to take out student loans while his white classmate does, and the only way to justify that is to say the disadvantage is based solely in skin color, not anything else.

Elisabella -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 7:04:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy How about the poor hispanics from South Central like I went to college with? None went to private or magnet schools. Then one can only assume they were educated enough to begin with to even be able to pursue a university education. That's really my point, if a person is educated enough to attend university, they should apply on their own merit. If they are too poor to afford it, they should have the same financial aid opportunities as anyone else. If they are not educated enough to attend university on their own merit, I wonder what argument could be made that they should be there.

domiguy -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 7:33:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy How about the poor hispanics from South Central like I went to college with? None went to private or magnet schools. Then one can only assume they were educated enough to begin with to even be able to pursue a university education. That's really my point, if a person is educated enough to attend university, they should apply on their own merit. If they are too poor to afford it, they should have the same financial aid opportunities as anyone else. If they are not educated enough to attend university on their own merit, I wonder what argument could be made that they should be there. Education is not a right... You do not get the same education in a poor urban school as you do in Naperville or Libertyville. I guess you should just move and be forced to leave your community. I have always thought that education should be a Constitutional right. Just because you are able to pursue a university it doesn't mean you were educated "enough." This has always been where black historic colleges have stepped up to the plate. To try and put kids on a fast track that would have excelled if they would have been given they chance to succeed based upon their own merit. The differences are falling away....slowly. It is still a fact, you send in identical resumes....One with the name Jamal Anderson at the top and the other with Jim Anderson. Jim is much more likely to get the call. That is reality. Accept it or don't. I am white and I could care less.

Thadius -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 7:34:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub Thad, You take the position that all racism is bad equally, and I don't. I am not denying that some minorities hate whites, but whites being the dominant race and culture have a responsibility to wield power, authority and influence equitably. When people in power hold racist views, there is tremendous potential for great injustice. I don't want to get in to a tit for tat about individual cases of "reverse racism" to make a point that it's all equally bad. It's not. I have gone on record in these forums stating that atheists need to pick their battles better when it comes to fighting with Christians over public displays of religious symbols. But we should continue to fight any attempt for govt to recognize or support any official religion, whether at the state or federal level. Christians are notoriosly averse to accepting any religion other than Christianity. Glen Beck, mouthpiece for the Conservatives, did an entire show today about how the US is a Christian nation and the pursuit of secularism is anti-Constitutional and will result in the destruction of this country. Atheists should stand their ground. You know the funny thing about this response? While I understand your position as you have clearly laid it out now, I was talking about the fact that there are racists in both parties in power, you keep wanting to avoid that point for some reason. I am not interested in the debate or a back and forth over levels or types of racism, I do not believe that all forms are the same, it's kind of hard to compare the closeted bigot who is afraid because of ignorance to the sheet wearing pyros. I agree with your position on "we should continue to fight any attempt for govt to recognize or support any official religion, whether at the state or federal level." with just one simple addition, it should read "support or restrain any religion or practice of". It is too late to stop the recognition part, and in many states recognition of the religion or at least of the church is required for certain legal ceremonies (unless using a judge/magistrate). I am not sure if I understand your point about atheists should stand there ground, are you suggesting that their rights somehow out weigh those with religious beliefs? I will try to catch the replay of the Glen Pecker show tonight, not sure what points he was making or if they are even close to being accurate. However, according to almost every poll I have seen in recent years, the breakdown is usually about 78% of the country being Christian and only 16% being atheist. With about 84% of all Americans believing in at least one god. I am also in agreement with the SCOTUS ruling in Torcaso v Watkins that stated "We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a State nor the Federal Government can constitutionally force a person "to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion."

Elisabella -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 7:58:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Education is not a right... You do not get the same education in a poor urban school as you do in Naperville or Libertyville. I guess you should just move and be forced to leave your community. I have always thought that education should be a Constitutional right. No, you don't. And as I said before, you don't get the same education in Appalachia either. So how is this a race thing? quote: Just because you are able to pursue a university it doesn't mean you were educated "enough." It means you were educated enough to successfully pursue a university education, I don't think there's any objective standard for "enough" quote: This has always been where black historic colleges have stepped up to the plate. To try and put kids on a fast track that would have excelled if they would have been given they chance to succeed based upon their own merit. And good on them for doing so. quote: The differences are falling away....slowly. It is still a fact, you send in identical resumes....One with the name Jamal Anderson at the top and the other with Jim Anderson. Jim is much more likely to get the call. Oh for sure Jim's more likely to get the call...whether he's white or black. He's also more likely to get the call than Destanee or Moonbeam would, all this proves is that giving a child a conservative Anglo name makes them more likely to succeed in a professional field.

brainiacsub -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 8:16:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius [...] You know the funny thing about this response? While I understand your position as you have clearly laid it out now, I was talking about the fact that there are racists in both parties in power, you keep wanting to avoid that point for some reason. I am not interested in the debate or a back and forth over levels or types of racism, I do not believe that all forms are the same, it's kind of hard to compare the closeted bigot who is afraid because of ignorance to the sheet wearing pyros. I agree with your position on "we should continue to fight any attempt for govt to recognize or support any official religion, whether at the state or federal level." with just one simple addition, it should read "support or restrain any religion or practice of". It is too late to stop the recognition part, and in many states recognition of the religion or at least of the church is required for certain legal ceremonies (unless using a judge/magistrate). I am not sure if I understand your point about atheists should stand there ground, are you suggesting that their rights somehow out weigh those with religious beliefs? I will try to catch the replay of the Glen Pecker show tonight, not sure what points he was making or if they are even close to being accurate. However, according to almost every poll I have seen in recent years, the breakdown is usually about 78% of the country being Christian and only 16% being atheist. With about 84% of all Americans believing in at least one god. I am also in agreement with the SCOTUS ruling in Torcaso v Watkins that stated "We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a State nor the Federal Government can constitutionally force a person "to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion." I am not avoiding any point. It's just that if there are any racists among the Independents or Democrats, I believe it to be fairly insignificant to the point of not news worthy. As a party, they are not known for their racist views, policies, or constituencies. If there are individual racists, then so what? Until they have the critical mass to effect policy and to do great harm, then I don't worry about it. I don't think Atheists rights outweigh anyone elses. But Atheists should continue to fight to ensure that just being an Atheist is OK among so many Christians who have all the power. I belong to an Atheist social group in my city and it's a constant topic at our gatherings. We never publicly acknowledge that we are Atheists for fear of our jobs and social standing within the community.

Elisabella -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 8:23:29 PM)
quote: I am not avoiding any point. It's just that if there are any racists among the Independents or Democrats, I believe it to be fairly insignificant to the point of not news worthy. As a party, they are not known for their racist views, policies, or constituencies. If there are individual racists, then so what? Until they have the critical mass to effect policy and to do great harm, then I don't worry about it. It was the democratic party of the US that pushed for affirmative action - racial preference codified into law under Johnson and the concept continues to find support from the democratic party even today.

thishereboi -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 8:28:40 PM)
quote: I believe it to be fairly insignificant to the point of not news worthy. Oh I don't know, I remember when the panthers were pretty newsworthy, at least in Detroit. Now maybe I am mistaken, but I think Detroit leans to the left and yet still has all kinds of problems with racism.

domiguy -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 10:25:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella Oh for sure Jim's more likely to get the call...whether he's white or black. He's also more likely to get the call than Destanee or Moonbeam would, all this proves is that giving a child a conservative Anglo name makes them more likely to succeed in a professional field. I know longer have time for you. edited....Actually I do have more time...Either you are dense or just don't get it. Either way it is highly disturbing... Jamal is not the same as moonbeam. You know that and yet you continue down this path of ignorance or just trying to be intentionally obtuse. Names that are perceived to be "white" are called back. that is why affirmative action is still necessary. You just don't have the capability to understand the meaning of your own words. It's not that the kid has a conservative anglo name it is because the kid has a conservative anglo skin tone.

brainiacsub -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/8/2010 11:04:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: I believe it to be fairly insignificant to the point of not news worthy. Oh I don't know, I remember when the panthers were pretty newsworthy, at least in Detroit. Now maybe I am mistaken, but I think Detroit leans to the left and yet still has all kinds of problems with racism. If you are talking about the Panthers of the 60's, then yes, those were turbulent times. But don't forget that the Panther's arose as a response to the brutality and racism of the all white police force in Oakland at the time. I am not saying that violence begets violence is justified. Just put the Panther's in context of the times before you declare them to be "racists." Now, Detroit and other major cities do have their problems with racism, no doubt. But black on black violence is so much more a problem than black on white violence that I wouldn't say the later is very news worthy. It's almost non existant except for maybe a few isolated incidents. Whites tend to be isolated and safe from the blacks in the big cities. Any real violence is petty criminal activity, not hate related. It is no where near the systemic level of white racism that is still quite prevelent in the Bible belt and heartland America.

Elisabella -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/9/2010 1:12:35 AM)
quote: Names that are perceived to be "white" are called back. that is why affirmative action is still necessary. You just don't have the capability to understand the meaning of your own words. It's not that the kid has a conservative anglo name it is because the kid has a conservative anglo skin tone. While I realize it's not the same in all parts of the world, the town I grew up in was less about being black or white and more about "acting black" and "acting white" which more or less boiled down to acting suburban or acting ghetto. The black kids I hung around with had names like Sam and Trevor and they got more shit from other black kids than from any white kids I knew. Yes there are a lot of people in the world who are genuinely racist, but affirmative action quotas are like taking morphine for a broken ankle - eases the symptoms without actually solving anything, and if anything, gives way to even more resentment (as you might have noticed on other threads that claim Obama's success was due to affirmative action) And stuff like U of M affirmative action that basically says "if you're black you get an extra couple hundred points toward your application" also carries with it a subtle message of "because you won't get in otherwise based on merit."

Moonhead -> RE: How dare the Right Wing Fear Mongers Use "Regime"!!! (4/9/2010 4:30:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: I believe it to be fairly insignificant to the point of not news worthy. Oh I don't know, I remember when the panthers were pretty newsworthy, at least in Detroit. Now maybe I am mistaken, but I think Detroit leans to the left and yet still has all kinds of problems with racism. If you are talking about the Panthers of the 60's, then yes, those were turbulent times. But don't forget that the Panther's arose as a response to the brutality and racism of the all white police force in Oakland at the time. I am not saying that violence begets violence is justified. Just put the Panther's in context of the times before you declare them to be "racists." Now, Detroit and other major cities do have their problems with racism, no doubt. But black on black violence is so much more a problem than black on white violence that I wouldn't say the later is very news worthy. It's almost non existant except for maybe a few isolated incidents. Whites tend to be isolated and safe from the blacks in the big cities. Any real violence is petty criminal activity, not hate related. It is no where near the systemic level of white racism that is still quite prevelent in the Bible belt and heartland America. I do wonder how the armed carry evangelists feel about the panthers. That was always a big part of their schtick, wasn't it?

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