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Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 7:37:41 AM   
collarcarol


Posts: 1
Joined: 6/11/2009
Status: offline 		I am currently speaking to a Dominant and we are discussing how a submissive/slave should refer to a Dominant who is just a friend.  I always thought Mistress was the polite way of referring to a Dominant woman and calling Her something else would earn respect.  But She thinks its the other way around yet she doesn't know of another polite name to call a Dominant friend or just another Dominant.  If you could kindly reply here or my email it would be greatly appreciated.
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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 7:55:56 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		Hi there and welcome to the forums!  :)

If you have not established a D/s relationship with that dominant, then I would suggest calling them by their first name.  I generally tend to be somewhat deferential to other dominants - as I believe is generally their due, but some folk infer a "relationship" from the use of a name of address that many reserve for that person who is their actual submissive.


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 8:33:50 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		What Otters said.

Partly because I can't *stand* the word Mistress, I really can't. If they are a friend only then you're on an equal footing, right? So first names seem like the way to go IMO-and if the Dominant in question disagrees I am sure they will let you know. 

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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 9:25:45 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline 		Would you call your friend's husband "husband"?  If not, why not?  If your answer is because "he and I do not have an intimate relationship so it would be inappropriate to call him by a title that implies we do", you might be on to something.

Of course if you're poly and the three of you are involved in a relationship, that's cool.  But if that is not the situation and you call him that, people are reasonably likely to assume that you are involved.  If you aren't, then calling someone by a title that implies a particular kind of relationship may be inadvisable.


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 9:27:40 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		This is an easy one. Ask her what she prefers to be called, then call her that.

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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 9:28:25 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline 		i agree with Otter as well.  Their first name is probably most appropriate until you have established a D/s dynamic with them.

i do tend to say "Yes Ma'am", if they ask me to do something.  But that is just a show of respect.  i don't call them "Mistress".


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 9:36:03 AM   
needs2beused


Posts: 22
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline 		I just had this conversation with a dominant man who insisted I call him Master....i think it is not appropriate until there is, at the very least a friendship established, but isn’t the title of Master or Mistress meant for THE one.  I think using Sir or Ma'am is a sign of respect but if there is not an established relationship anything beyond being polite is, IMHO, unnecessary.

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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 9:38:26 AM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		A top asking for immediate respect is usually a sign of low self esteem. Why else would anyone require instant ego gratification?

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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 9:43:27 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Kana and Otter nailed it.

I feel that a lot of online player's tend to get caught up in titles far more than I would and for me it is an actual turn off. Mistress in my opinion is something earned between a submissive and I and it is earned by both of us and it is personal. Ma'am I take no offense to, but some do as they feel it makes them sound old or something. M'lady is rather romantic and not so hard to hear from someone, but that too is I believe something I don't wish to hear from someone I am not involved with and should be more personal just as mistress.

There is nothing disrespectful about calling someone their actual name or nickname as I am not much for pretense and anything else seems to be, to me. I do not place myself in a position I haven't earned with anyone and I don't want them putting me there either. A friend is a friend and I don't see any need for any dynamic's.


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 9:56:01 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
I generally tend to be somewhat deferential to other dominants - as I believe is generally their due


I am interested in your reasons for believing that someone deserves deference as their due because of their sexual or D/s orientation.  Please expound.


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 10:20:20 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
I generally tend to be somewhat deferential to other dominants - as I believe is generally their due


I am interested in your reasons for believing that someone deserves deference as their due because of their sexual or D/s orientation.  Please expound.



We are in a community of dominants and submissives, bottoms and tops.  I am submissive to my Lady, but I will extend a level of what I call deferential courtesy to someone that I know is a dominant.  It is not anything that I can absolutely put a finger on that I do, but I generally act in a way that is...deferential to them.  A subtle acknowledgment of my status and of theirs in the hierarchy of things.  I do this because I enjoy it and I hope it makes them feel more at ease.


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 10:26:55 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline 		Many submissives that I've encountered enjoy using an honorific of sorts when speaking with a dominant. I think it's sweet they wish to use that form of respect when establishing a relationship.

Personally, I do not like to be called Mistress, nor Ma'am, unless a formal relationship is developed. Until then, I do allow the submissive the choice to either call me by my first name, or Ms. MyFirstName, whichever they feel more comfortable using. So long as they don't call me Mistress or Ma'am, I'm content with either of the options I give them.

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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 11:05:21 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz

Many submissives that I've encountered enjoy using an honorific of sorts when speaking with a dominant. I think it's sweet they wish to use that form of respect when establishing a relationship.

Personally, I do not like to be called Mistress, nor Ma'am, unless a formal relationship is developed. Until then, I do allow the submissive the choice to either call me by my first name, or Ms. MyFirstName, whichever they feel more comfortable using. So long as they don't call me Mistress or Ma'am, I'm content with either of the options I give them.


Agreed from the male POV.
Laughs
When someone I don't know well starts calling me Sir, I begin looking around for my Dad.

Now, once something begins to kindle, it's very rare that she uses my name.


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 11:49:02 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim. 
It is not anything that I can absolutely put a finger on that I do, but I generally act in a way that is...deferential to them.  A subtle acknowledgment of my status and of theirs in the hierarchy of things. 


Believe it or not, even I've got a bit of that.  Odd, really, because it doesn't make much logical sense to me.

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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 12:55:29 PM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim. 
It is not anything that I can absolutely put a finger on that I do, but I generally act in a way that is...deferential to them.  A subtle acknowledgment of my status and of theirs in the hierarchy of things. 


Believe it or not, even I've got a bit of that.  Odd, really, because it doesn't make much logical sense to me.


Me too.  And i agree, it probably doesn't make much sense. 


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 1:00:12 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim. 
It is not anything that I can absolutely put a finger on that I do, but I generally act in a way that is...deferential to them.  A subtle acknowledgment of my status and of theirs in the hierarchy of things. 


Believe it or not, even I've got a bit of that.  Odd, really, because it doesn't make much logical sense to me.


Me too.  And i agree, it probably doesn't make much sense. 



Nah, it definitely doesn't-I've found it really weird when a sub I'm not attached to will kneel down to talk to me if I'm sitting and they are standing, or give up their chair for me, or whatever.


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 1:22:45 PM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

Nah, it definitely doesn't-I've found it really weird when a sub I'm not attached to will kneel down to talk to me if I'm sitting and they are standing, or give up their chair for me, or whatever.



You know, I think that the kneeling part is over the top and not where I would go.  But offering my chair to a lady, or to a Lady, is something that I would do in the act of being a gentleman, not of being a submissive.  It is subtle and I have had opportunity to think on it a bit.  One thing I do is if I am serving my Lady, I will also ask others if they want anything - I will ask other dominant folk first, and if I am bringing something back, I will provide what I brought back to my Lady first, then the other dominants, then any submissive or other folk next.


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 1:29:14 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		There's no point in trying to explain to VC why we feel deferential to women, Otters.  She won't understand.  After all, let's face it: she's only got a woman's brain.

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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 1:32:03 PM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

Nah, it definitely doesn't-I've found it really weird when a sub I'm not attached to will kneel down to talk to me if I'm sitting and they are standing, or give up their chair for me, or whatever.



You know, I think that the kneeling part is over the top and not where I would go.  But offering my chair to a lady, or to a Lady, is something that I would do in the act of being a gentleman, not of being a submissive.  It is subtle and I have had opportunity to think on it a bit.  One thing I do is if I am serving my Lady, I will also ask others if they want anything - I will ask other dominant folk first, and if I am bringing something back, I will provide what I brought back to my Lady first, then the other dominants, then any submissive or other folk next.



Yeah, i'm with Otter.  i would never kneel.  But i would definitely offer my seat to a lady.  That's just being a gentleman.



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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 1:34:24 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
We are in a community of dominants and submissives, bottoms and tops.  I am submissive to my Lady, but I will extend a level of what I call deferential courtesy to someone that I know is a dominant.  It is not anything that I can absolutely put a finger on that I do, but I generally act in a way that is...deferential to them.  A subtle acknowledgment of my status and of theirs in the hierarchy of things.  I do this because I enjoy it and I hope it makes them feel more at ease.


Subtle courtesy extended for whatever reason rarely grates on anyone.  I've encountered "submissives" who were inappropriately intimate with their displays to nonconsenting strangers and as a result mostly got a rep for themselves as That Creepy Guy and made the dominants uncomfortable.

In a clearly defined group that chooses to stratify itself based on D/s orientation, formal manners and behaviorally differentiating between castes helps maintain that social stratification.  I have no issues with this when membership in that group is completely consensual and everyone knows what they're agreeing to when they join.  There are potential problems with attempting to enforce a social hierarchy in a larger group - say, the BDSM community - where not everyone has consented to abide by these rules.  When I go to a BDSM event, it does not constitute my automatic consent to be a stranger's dominant, *in any way, shape or form*.   So it's likely to make me uncomfortable if someone behaves as if they are my personal responsibility, entitled to my watchfulness and protection, and a public reflection on my household and my personal honor, when they are not.  Submission to me encompasses all of those things, and I will not accept it from someone unless I am willing to be genuinely responsible for them on some level. That takes time, trust, negotiation and consent. 


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