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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 1:55:06 PM   
OttersSwim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
We are in a community of dominants and submissives, bottoms and tops.  I am submissive to my Lady, but I will extend a level of what I call deferential courtesy to someone that I know is a dominant.  It is not anything that I can absolutely put a finger on that I do, but I generally act in a way that is...deferential to them.  A subtle acknowledgment of my status and of theirs in the hierarchy of things.  I do this because I enjoy it and I hope it makes them feel more at ease.


Subtle courtesy extended for whatever reason rarely grates on anyone.  I've encountered "submissives" who were inappropriately intimate with their displays to nonconsenting strangers and as a result mostly got a rep for themselves as That Creepy Guy and made the dominants uncomfortable.

In a clearly defined group that chooses to stratify itself based on D/s orientation, formal manners and behaviorally differentiating between castes helps maintain that social stratification.  I have no issues with this when membership in that group is completely consensual and everyone knows what they're agreeing to when they join.  There are potential problems with attempting to enforce a social hierarchy in a larger group - say, the BDSM community - where not everyone has consented to abide by these rules.  When I go to a BDSM event, it does not constitute my automatic consent to be a stranger's dominant, *in any way, shape or form*.   So it's likely to make me uncomfortable if someone behaves as if they are my personal responsibility, entitled to my watchfulness and protection, and a public reflection on my household and my personal honor, when they are not.  Submission to me encompasses all of those things, and I will not accept it from someone unless I am willing to be genuinely responsible for them on some level. That takes time, trust, negotiation and consent. 



I should draw a distinction between acting "submissive" and acting "deferential".  Nothing in how I behave to other dominants than my own is submissive.  It is respectful and somewhat deferential.  My example of priority of courtesies such as bringing drinks, etc.  Now, offering to get others drinks too is also just a part of being polite.  But as a submissive, it is something I will pointedly do.  Asking who wants what in an order that puts the Dominants first, and bringing those drinks back and handing out to the dominants first is one way that I define that deference.


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 2:16:39 PM   
OrpheusAgonistes


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I'm naturally extremely polite (and well-read, and charming, with great shoes) but I seldom use titles in casual conversations with friends.  Doctor Jones, Sergeant Smith, Mistress Sakimoto--none of these would naturally roll off my tongue when conversing with a friend.

Not saying "Mistress" has literally never been a problem.

To be honest, if I did call a friend "Mistress" such and such, it wouldn't feel like a sign of respect so much as an act of condescension.  Nothing is really as much of a reminder of how much of an imaginary tea party social conventions and contrivances are as the use of titles in casual conversation.  It would feel like something out of  one of Jane Austen's parodies of genteel affectations.

Plus a lot of women I know just find the uninvited use of "Mistress" kind of creepy and off-putting, and in their position I'm pretty sure I'd feel the same way.


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 2:47:52 PM   
littlewonder


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I would call her by her name unless my Master told me otherwise.

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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 3:52:13 PM   
sunshinemiss


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Yes, the OP. Here is the problem with your question. It does not answer how YOUR GUT tells you to respond.

I feel a certain trust in my gut. Anytime I did not follow it, I was totally screwed (in a bad way). That includes in relationships. I often talk about being "inspired" to follow another's lead. That is more than just in a relationship. When my boss tells me to do something, I follow because he's my boss or his plan makes sense and he has inspired me to do it. Either way it gets done. Same with other friends. My closer friendships will have a little endearment on their names - Mikealicious, Alfonsito, Nicki Chicki... They have inspired me to add that. And with wiitwd, I will defer to people for a number of reasons - the way I was raised, the power of their mojo, what part of the month I'm in, how close I am to the person. I trust my gut with that.

In the end, if you are asking the question, you are not following your gut. What is right for you will happen naturally if you are in the moment. Don't let anyone bully you into a relationship that does not exist. And by the way, bullying can look like intellect, kindness, or strict rules. It doesn't always show up with horns and a tail.

Good luck,
sunshine

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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 4:12:20 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

What Otters said.

Partly because I can't *stand* the word Mistress, I really can't. If they are a friend only then you're on an equal footing, right? So first names seem like the way to go IMO-and if the Dominant in question disagrees I am sure they will let you know. 


Oh make your mind up, puhleaseeeee. Do I call you Vaguely, Mistress Curious, or just continue with Babe ? 

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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:20:32 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Oh make your mind up, puhleaseeeee. Do I call you Vaguely, Mistress Curious, or just continue with Babe ? 


Hush up, Manners.

On a serious note, you normally call me MsVC. I don't have a problem with that. VC would be fine too.


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:25:15 PM   
Politesub53


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Is Manners a misnoma....lol

To be honest I try and find out what you ladies whis to be called. You are all different, some like Ma`am, some Ms, some to use first names. Some like Goddess, some like Lady.

I am looking for someone who wants to call her "often"  < yeah yeah shameless advertising....lol

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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:26:33 PM   
PeonForHer


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. . . Though to be perfectly polite, he shouldn't be abbreviating Ms VeryCute.



'Shut up, Peon'

'OK, VC.'





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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:32:26 PM   
Politesub53


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Ha, the UK insomniacs club.

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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:34:08 PM   
dreamerdreaming


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I prefer to be called GoddessMistressMa'amUberDomlyDomFancyPantsQueenOfTheWorld.

Raihlly, I do.






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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:34:27 PM   
PeonForHer


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True. My hours are insane, now. I'm lucky to be in bed before 4.00 am.

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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:36:14 PM   
PeonForHer


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Hey - don't laugh at 'Ma'am'. It's the one honorific I love to use. When I'm bleddy allowed to, that is.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 4/6/2010 6:14:22 PM >


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RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:38:34 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Hey - don't laugh at 'Ma'am'. It's the one honorific I love to use. When I'm bleddy allowed to, that is.


Ma`am, with an English accent, went down a treat in the Southern States, last time I was over.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:39:11 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

'Shut up, Peon'

'OK, VC.'


Thankyou for saving me the effort of typing.


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:40:41 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Is Manners a misnoma....lol



No more and no less than Politesub...


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:41:58 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Is Manners a misnoma....lol



No more and no less than Politesub...



Es tu, Ms Brutus.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:44:46 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Es tu, Ms Brutus.


That would be Ms Bruta, Manners darling.


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:46:37 PM   
Politesub53


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No matter, you called me darling, darling. At least it wasnt Baldrick....lol

On that note, I am off for a kip.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 5:49:12 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

No matter, you called me darling, darling. At least it wasnt Baldrick....lol

On that note, I am off for a kip.


It was a sarcastic use of the word darling when I called you darling, darling.

And I wouldn't besmirch the name of Tony Robinson in that way.

Sleep well.


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Respect for submissive to Dominant. - 4/6/2010 7:28:06 PM   
Andalusite


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
I should draw a distinction between acting "submissive" and acting "deferential". ... Asking who wants what in an order that puts the Dominants first, and bringing those drinks back and handing out to the dominants first is one way that I define that deference.

I am specifically not allowed to submit *or* defer to people based on their D/s orientation without specific permission. My Master feels that is disrespectful toward him. Of course, I generally try to be courteous and polite I to people in general, regardless of their D/s orientation or lack thereof. If we were at a high-protocol event, he would almost certainly give me permission to comply with the protocol in place, such as using titles, but it wouldn't be any more meaningful or indicate any more actual respect than using similar titles at a Renaissance Faire or "Sir, you forgot your change when you were in line ahead of me" to a stranger at the gas station. I use titles if they are part of someone's screen name, unless there's a convenient abbreviation, but again, I don't *respect* the person more for it. If anything, I put more effort into remembering to not capitalise submissive's screennames. I'm used to proper nouns, particularly at the beginning of a sentence, starting with a capital letter!

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Profile   Post #: 40
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