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[Poll]

can there really be a government conspiracy?

For sure "THEY" are everyplace and watching this poll

14% (2)

Yes but only the party I don't belong to, it's the other party that is

7% (1)

yes but I cant say more

21% (3)

There could be some, depends on the FBI & CIA budget

14% (2)

No, our government is too honest to do that (see #1)

14% (2)

no our government is REALLY too honest

0% (0)

no

28% (4)

Total Votes : 14

(last vote on : 4/6/2010 8:39:19 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 1:31:24 PM

ricken

Posts: 261
Joined: 1/11/2010
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OK after reading so many posts here, I don’t understand something….How can there really be a large government conspiracy, I mean really does anybody believe that you could get thousands of halfway intelligent people that work for the government to do something and then NOT talk about it? I mean really? Ever try to get an answer out of someone about anything anymore, let’s face it no one wants to do their job, and most government workers are just idiots that got hired because of a family member or close friend. So how can they be smart enough to keep their mouth shut?
SO with out bashing can someone rationally explain HOW a true conspiracy could happen in our government?

Post #: 1

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 1:35:39 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

HELL NO!

Our government NEVER lies!

NEVER EVER!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to ricken)

Post #: 2

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 1:37:29 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

Not so much "honest" as "too incompetent to keep it quiet if they were conspiring about something".
You're talking, after all, about a government apparatus that couldn't keep Watergate or Clinton's taste for blowjobs discreetly hushed up...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to ricken)

Post #: 3

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 1:38:52 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Not so much "honest" as "too incompetent to keep it quiet if they were conspiring about something".
You're talking, after all, about a government apparatus that couldn't keep Watergate or Clinton's taste for blowjobs discreetly hushed up...

The question is what were they hiding with the leakage of those scandals?

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 4

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 1:39:07 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

HELL NO!

Our government NEVER lies!

NEVER EVER!

On day- we may finally break from the crown.

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 5

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 1:40:33 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Is war a conspiracy?

I mean we are in 2 admitted wars.....(over false pretenses)

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 6

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 1:43:20 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Not so much "honest" as "too incompetent to keep it quiet if they were conspiring about something".
You're talking, after all, about a government apparatus that couldn't keep Watergate or Clinton's taste for blowjobs discreetly hushed up...

The question is what were they hiding with the leakage of those scandals?

The use of something like that as a a diversionary tactic to hide something else would suggest a degree of competence that neither the donkey nor the elephant is capable of, though.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 7

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 1:45:06 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

I agree neither party is capable of that degree of competence. That doesn't rule out a shadow government.

I hope you know that I am joking... or am I? Nothing to see here.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 8

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 1:47:09 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

No, I thought you were probably joking, but I thought I'd answer that just in case anybody missed that.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 9

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 1:50:30 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I agree neither party is capable of that degree of competence. That doesn't rule out a shadow government.

I hope you know that I am joking... or am I? Nothing to see here.

Bingo.

Key word "shadow government"

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 10

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 2:01:32 PM

ricken

Posts: 261
Joined: 1/11/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Not so much "honest" as "too incompetent to keep it quiet if they were conspiring about something".
You're talking, after all, about a government apparatus that couldn't keep Watergate or Clinton's taste for blowjobs discreetly hushed up...

Great examples thats just what I mean

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 11

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 2:19:39 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ricken

OK after reading so many posts here, I don’t understand something….How can there really be a large government conspiracy, I mean really does anybody believe that you could get thousands of halfway intelligent people that work for the government to do something and then NOT talk about it? I mean really? Ever try to get an answer out of someone about anything anymore, let’s face it no one wants to do their job, and most government workers are just idiots that got hired because of a family member or close friend. So how can they be smart enough to keep their mouth shut?
SO with out bashing can someone rationally explain HOW a true conspiracy could happen in our government?

You seem to be focusing on mid and lower level government employees. Perhaps your perception of government consists of the politicians that we all see and hear "in theater," and all the government workers below them. If so, I believe such perceptions are naive.

Some questions for you to ponder:

Do you believe that our politicians serve the peons, or those at the top of the food chain?

Do you believe lobbyists conspire to serve the agendas of their corporate masters, or serve the best interests of the average voter?

Do you think the government's agenda is real change, or maintaining the status-quo?

What do you think about the recent SCOTUS ruling regarding corporate political contributions? Do you at least see potential for conspiracy in this area?

Do you believe all information released by the government to the general public to be 100% factual? If not, isn't that in itself a conspiracy to deceive the average voter/consumer? And if so, for who's best interest?

I know you said "really large conspiracy," but if the government is willing and able to engineer smaller conspiracies, doesn't it stand to reason that larger conspiracies are at least a distinct possibility?

< Message edited by subfever -- 4/6/2010 2:21:32 PM >

(in reply to ricken)

Post #: 12

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 2:22:00 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ricken

OK after reading so many posts here, I don’t understand something….How can there really be a large government conspiracy, I mean really does anybody believe that you could get thousands of halfway intelligent people that work for the government to do something and then NOT talk about it? I mean really? Ever try to get an answer out of someone about anything anymore, let’s face it no one wants to do their job, and most government workers are just idiots that got hired because of a family member or close friend. So how can they be smart enough to keep their mouth shut?
SO with out bashing can someone rationally explain HOW a true conspiracy could happen in our government?

There are plenty of military exercises that thousands participate in, that never sees the light of day for what is really going on. At least that is the way it was a few years back...

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to ricken)

Post #: 13

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 2:30:03 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

The military has aculture of esprit de corps, though (which tends to go hand in hand with a certain disdain for civilians). I don't think that anybody in the government thinks that way, and certainly the lower level government workers who do all of the work for the elected layabouts don't.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 14

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 3:12:28 PM

ricken

Posts: 261
Joined: 1/11/2010
Status: offline

Well I guess I am a little blind, I didn't think about the military, but again here are thousands of people doing something, yeah WHILE it's being done a secret might be able to be kept, but this is for their own safety...those people will get out of the military and talk, they will talk about things that happenend.
Do I believe politians serve the people, I think some of them do, in the begining of their career, I thik after a while, no they serve themself (I think term limits for ALL elected people a great idea) but those people become so greedy that can't really keep a secret. And of course if your in office getting fat because of the supreem court ruling over contributions you dont want change.You want the lobbyest to keep paying off.
I get that, but that is just human greed of everyone being out for themself, I guess if you get enough greedy people in one place going after the money it could seem like a consperacy. Like hugry rats chasing the same peice of chess, it LOOKS like they will work together, untill one of them gets the chees first
I guess I just don't believe that you can get a bunch of greedy politicians to agree too long on anything for them to do a large consperacy, lots of little ones, I guess....

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 15

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 3:16:25 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

Most of those that do talk are just shaken off as nuts or suffering from some other issue. At least the military types.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to ricken)

Post #: 16

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 3:31:14 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

You seem to be focusing on mid and lower level government employees. Perhaps your perception of government consists of the politicians that we all see and hear "in theater," and all the government workers below them. If so, I believe such perceptions are naive.

Some questions for you to ponder:

Do you believe that our politicians serve the peons, or those at the top of the food chain?

Do you believe lobbyists conspire to serve the agendas of their corporate masters, or serve the best interests of the average voter?

Do you think the government's agenda is real change, or maintaining the status-quo?

What do you think about the recent SCOTUS ruling regarding corporate political contributions? Do you at least see potential for conspiracy in this area?

Do you believe all information released by the government to the general public to be 100% factual? If not, isn't that in itself a conspiracy to deceive the average voter/consumer? And if so, for who's best interest?

I know you said "really large conspiracy," but if the government is willing and able to engineer smaller conspiracies, doesn't it stand to reason that larger conspiracies are at least a distinct possibility?

I actually agree with this. When most people think of "conspiracy" they think of some crazy mastermind plan, whereas conspire can also mean to work together for mutual benefit.

As far as a 'really big conspiracy' what would count as 'really big'? And is it only a 'conspiracy' if it's something you think is not for the best?

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 17

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 3:36:01 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Not so much "honest" as "too incompetent to keep it quiet if they were conspiring about something".
You're talking, after all, about a government apparatus that couldn't keep Watergate or Clinton's taste for blowjobs discreetly hushed up...

The question is what were they hiding with the leakage of those scandals?

The use of something like that as a a diversionary tactic to hide something else would suggest a degree of competence that neither the donkey nor the elephant is capable of, though.

yeh but thats as surface as blaming the sitting prez for what the last prez did. might want to study up on 101 duplicity and the hegelian dialectic as it applies to politics and ed barnay to help you better understand.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 18

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 4:04:42 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

A conspiracy pretty much is viewed as pursuing an illegal act. So you don't ever hear off a conspiracy for the "good."

I think most conspiracies take place where very few people are in charge. Too many loose lips sink ships and conspiracies.

_____________________________

(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 19

RE: can there really be a government conspiracy? - 4/6/2010 4:11:42 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

A conspiracy pretty much is viewed as pursuing an illegal act. So you don't ever hear off a conspiracy for the "good."

I think most conspiracies take place where very few people are in charge. Too many loose lips sink ships and conspiracies.

The CIA was involved in a lot of conspiracies during the Cold War. Mossad would be one of the best current examples, the assassination of Caesar (or better, Caligula) one of the best historical examples, all conspiracies for the good, in the eyes of the conspirators.

As far as a government conspiracy goes, theoretically I would imagine there would be very few people in charge. Not everyone who contributes to the end goal would need to do so knowingly. I don't believe there is a huge government conspiracy, but I don't disbelieve it either. In some ways, it might have been for the best at the start - the last thing that one of the most powerful and heavily armed nations in the world needs is the voters and politicians calling the shots.

Honestly which would help you sleep at night - knowing George W Bush was actually making executive decisions for the US for 8 years, or knowing that his hand was guided by people far more trained and experienced?

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 20

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