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RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/7/2010 5:49:56 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

If YOU value your relationship with him, forget everything and sit down and find out what he hasn't told you and do it now. Put everything aside and listen to him with an open mind.

You sound bitter, and you seriously will have to let that go if you are going to LISTEN to him whn he tells you what he hadn't told you.

Then once you know everything, you can better assess the present and future. But in my opinion until you know what he hasn't told you -- you don't have all the information.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 21

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/7/2010 6:12:33 PM

loveisnotenough

Posts: 6
Joined: 4/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

If YOU value your relationship with him, forget everything and sit down and find out what he hasn't told you and do it now. Put everything aside and listen to him with an open mind.

You sound bitter, and you seriously will have to let that go if you are going to LISTEN to him whn he tells you what he hadn't told you.

Then once you know everything, you can better assess the present and future. But in my opinion until you know what he hasn't told you -- you don't have all the information.

angel

I have asked him to go ahead and discuss these things I don't know tonight. I know he wants to do it face to face, but it is eating me up too much to wait. I can handle most anything except not knowing. I am short on time and I am short on the internal strength to have this continue brew on a back burner.

I am not bitter really, just so tired. I am exhausted in every possible way. This event is big and it affects literally every single thing about my life and those I care about. It is not quite on the same par for him and that's okay. I am the one who has to do and change a lot of things for this to happen. I have already gone through so much to get to this point. It has been physically, mentally, and emotionally hard, but the end result was supposed to be so well worth it. I am still trying to function like we are moving forward while holding on some things as long as I can to make sure. At the same time, I was keyed up, emotional, had a little case of "cold feet", and those kinds of things already. He has helped me work through that only to wind up here. It is just digging at things that are already a little bit tender right now.

I agree I need these missing pieces before I can really react at all. All I can do right now is just hang on tight and try not to think about it too much. It just gets me upset again and wears me down even more. I don't want to become resentful, bitter, or any of the rest. I do value our relationship and though I have said things in this thread that have sounded horrible, they are just thoughts and they are just feelings. Answers and resolution will help a great deal. Then I will have a better ability to put everything into perspective.

I have no problem with things sometimes being hard and not being happy all the time. As a matter of fact, that's when relationships can grow and improve the most. I just didn't see this coming. People have said that I wasn't blindsided. I was. He had never dealt with a problem this way before. Inefficiency isn't the same thing as what has occurred here. I never ever saw it coming. That's why it is so hard to deal with. This isn't like him.

I appreciate everyone's input and my ears are still wide open. I don't accept regular cmail on this profile, but I do check in for private messages from posters on the boards if someone has something to say that they don't want to post publicly. Again, thank you and continued discussion is appreciated.

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(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 22

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/7/2010 6:35:03 PM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
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Even if you get this particular situation resolved, it sounds like he's a bit of a white knight. It's likely that in the future, he'll give/loan money he can't afford to friends in trouble, or let them stay in the spare room or on the couch for weeks, or whatever.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 23

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/7/2010 7:24:40 PM

subtee

Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline

~FR

I hope you get all the information you need tonight.

What if you take leaving him off the table? It seems to me a decision that should be very thoughtful and deliberate, not made out of emotion. Would it ease your mind to remove the decision, at least for now?

As for the friend and mom, based on what you've written, it doesn't seem that leaving her to fend for herself and get evicted, consequences for her relative--all of that--would make anything better. He wouldn't feel good about it, regardless of how it came about. You might feel badly about it too. It sounds like a plan was made to extricate your lives from theirs, and it seems right to do so. However, the pressure of time now makes the situation sound rather dire for them. Maybe you shouldn't bear that on your shoulders, or let it be between you and him.

Should you (and he) move forward with the plan or scrap it? I don't know the consequences for either choice. If the consequences for scrapping the plan are mostly material or logistical, while that would suck in the short term, maybe that is the most beneficial in the long term. Think of your relationship and how to find that answer first, without the added complication of a huge change.

If, however, the consequences of scrapping the plan are such that the detriment would be to your relationship and well being, maybe he and you can find a way to progress with it while not abandoning the friend/mom in dire straights. Do you see that as a possibility?

Finally, my fear would lead me to need to know why, in this situation, with such a big change impacting so many...he didn't handle it.

I'm sorry...

< Message edited by subtee -- 4/7/2010 7:25:27 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/7/2010 7:45:52 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: loveisnotenough

He has made a mistake and a big one, but that is just proof he is, in fact human. Last I checked putting on the leather and swinging a flogger didn't change that fact.

Putting on the leather and swinging a flogger probably made him look like kind of a dope. Nothing to do with whether he is homo sapien or not.

You really didn't give enough details to allow people to each the assumption that he is a complete douche nozzle...

I am bold enough to climb out on a limb and say....

He is a complete douche nozzle.

If you are pretty it is his fault. If you are kind of gross I think you are going to have to bite the bullet on this one.

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Post #: 25

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/7/2010 7:53:44 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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Whoa, wait a minute. There is more to the story well over a year into things, with serious considerations all that time? No, no, no. I believe you should have known it all long before now at crunch time. I also believe that when we are assisting people, we should know what might be best for them and also be able to sit down and have those talks. If not, we aren't helping in any way but maybe to enable handicapping them.

If we are to help someone and as a dominant, I feel we should be well aware of the helps out there, the things that one can do and require that some steady progress is made. That apparently hasn't been done. I would find it difficult to trust any of the people in the situation and therefore would be feeling insecure about it and maybe resentful to some degree if my life were hanging on whatever they do or do not do.

You can only stand up for yourself here. You cannot insist or tell them what to do as they have seen fit to find reasons to not do them or for excusing the lack of progress.

My line would be... well, you all figure out what you are going to do and do it. Let me know within a certain amount of time that I am comfortable with and until I feel that things are as they should be... meaning progress is being made, I won't complicate the situation by adding myself to it.

If you walk in now and accept it all with the doubts and you have reason for those doubts, there is no incentive to change one damn thing. I just wouldn't put myself in that type of dead end situation. Call it an ultimatum if you want, but no way do I allow my life to be determined by people who clearly haven't done their homework.

My proof would be... what have they learned could be done? I could mention a number of things that could be found out in a day or two that could be done and implemented and should have been long ago. If they have no facts/information or any resources for alternative things to do or try to do, they haven't been wise and haven't done what was needed to do so that you and he could go on with your life as you planned.

I have seen a number of people be victim to a situation willingly because they wanted their cake and to eat it too. I wouldn't feel like putting them on a diet, but surely would allow them to eat all they wanted... without me.

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(in reply to subtee)

Post #: 26

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/7/2010 8:12:17 PM

takemeforyourown

Posts: 430
Joined: 2/24/2007
Status: offline

I heard alarm bells ringing while reading this message. It's hard to separate your own desires from the demands and needs of someone else when you care about them so much, but I sense a 'get out of there' advice-moment coming on.

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 27

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/7/2010 8:29:20 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

I guess for me this situation is incomprehensible for much the same reason as LP said... I'm crystal clear on what my priorities are. Loosely speaking, they are:

1) Carol
2) Myself
3) My children (they are grown enough to be taking care of themselves.
4) Anyone else I have extended some protection over for whatever reasons
5) The rest of the world

Of course, that doesn't help you one bit. I honestly can't think what would help you at this point. I'd say a bit of patience on your part till you hear the rest of the story and then the moment of judgement comes... is this man your master or not? Whether or not you two can recover is entirely up to you two. Over the course of a lifelong relationship, a great many things go terribly wrong at some point or another. ANYTHING is recoverable if both parties want to recover it.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to loveisnotenough)

Post #: 28

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/7/2010 9:06:20 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

I am with LP on this one. But from personal experience with this sort of man I can tell you that he probably will not cut off ties or assistance to this other person. You already mentioned his reluctance to face the drama and I know this sort of behavior very well.
Either you accept that your part will eventually lead to YOUR helping him support her, or you should call a halt now. Of every type of personalities there are, the one I find most unacceptable is someone who is too afraid to seem like the bad guy and lets things drag on for years on end.
Are you ready for that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

The only way this friend would hold a higher responsibility than My submissive would be if I was somehow responsible for the disability that hinders her from taking care of herself. (Something to the tune of I was driving the car involved in an accident that left her disabled or some other freak accident.) Other than that, sorry, but My inner circle is absolutely more important than the outer circle.

[/color]

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 29

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/8/2010 1:13:38 AM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

It's clear to me he values her more than you... Do I really need to say more???

BadOne

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Post #: 30

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/8/2010 2:53:03 AM

DomImus

Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Umm - your way isn't the only way people live in a slave relationship. Because she has a different way of reacting to situations doesn't mean that her relationship is any less genuine than yours.

I might think some of your statements silly, and condescending but if you were in pain, i wouldn't point that out. I might start a thread to get a consensus from the cm members, but i don't think i would lecture you.

You might want to consider how you phrase things.

The OP asked for opinions. She got them. Why people feel the need to nitpick and police responses is beyond me.

And yes, I realize I did just that.

< Message edited by DomImus -- 4/8/2010 2:54:57 AM >

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(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 31

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/8/2010 3:37:06 AM

SomethingCatchy

Posts: 796
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

It's clear to me he values her more than you... Do I really need to say more???

BadOne

I completely agree.

I am genuinely sorry that you are dealing with all the uncertainty and worry. I know too well what it feels like to be in the position where it feels like you're sacrificing a lot but only have promises to hold onto.

_____________________________

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(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 32

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/8/2010 3:49:49 AM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Umm - your way isn't the only way people live in a slave relationship. Because she has a different way of reacting to situations doesn't mean that her relationship is any less genuine than yours.

I might think some of your statements silly, and condescending but if you were in pain, i wouldn't point that out. I might start a thread to get a consensus from the cm members, but i don't think i would lecture you.

You might want to consider how you phrase things.

The OP asked for opinions. She got them. Why people feel the need to nitpick and police responses is beyond me.

And yes, I realize I did just that.

This poster wasn't offering opinions on the situation - s/he was offering an opinion on the "trueness" of the OP's slavery. Not helpful in the long run.

(in reply to DomImus)

Post #: 33

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/8/2010 3:53:27 AM

crazyml

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline

<sigh> I really hope you're able to resolve this, this is suck an awful position to be in.

I've little to add to the mixture of comments you've already had. Except to say that it's possible that your Master is going through a similar level of anguish to you.

It seems he feels an obligation to this third person. I think you need to explore that obligation - its basis, its history, its direction. Obligation is a powerful thing, I've always made it clear to partners that I have obligations that I take very seriously. For example a past girlfriend couldn't accept the obligation I have to my two sons from my prior marriage - I would rather go without food or shelter than see my to lads go without - and in the end I had to finish with her because I simply wasn't prepared to have the "we'd have a bigger house if you didn't pay so much child support" coversation. Perhaps your Master didn't make it clear, perhaps he didn't fully appreciate the extent to which he feels that obligation.

The fact that he seems to have swept it under the carpet isn't necesarily a sign that he's "weak" it could be that he's just not strong enough to grapple with it. I leave doing my tax to the last minute because I'm stupidly phobic about the process - It's only when the really hard deadline comes up that the need to do it overcomes my silly fear. This isn't on anything like the same scale as your challenge, and I don't mean to belittle it by using it as an example but sometimes even the strongest person will yeild to the temptation to delay having to confront something.

It's clearly crunch-time now, so I hope that the long and probably tough discussion you have with your partner will help to establish clarity. There may be lots of outcomes to the conversation and some might be not so nice - As some people have said, it could be that the issue isn't his relationship with the third party, it might be his relationship with you.. (again I don't say that with any pleasure... but it is a possibility).

I wish you well. (and your Master, and the third party for that matter).

(in reply to loveisnotenough)

Post #: 34

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/8/2010 6:00:50 AM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

It disturbs me that there is this aspect to his life which impacts both you and your life together and he has not told you the details before now.

There are aspects to my Master's life that I do not know anything about because that is his preference, but they do not impact my life with him and if they did he would tell me.

By accepting his not telling you before, you basically agreed to those terms. I would not make any decisions until you have all of the relevant information.

Perhaps you might also tell him exactly what you need from him during this time of transition and change in order for this to work for you.

_____________________________

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(in reply to loveisnotenough)

Post #: 35

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/8/2010 8:32:14 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

If you can't trust what he says about this being a temporary situation, and six years isn't temporary, then personally I don't think you can trust what he says about all of the rest of it.

I do think you're going to move, be dependent on him, and then suddenly discover she is his long term lover/sub/whatever and you're now in a threesome not of your choosing.

He can't be someone who lies to get what he wants by taking the easy way out and still be someone of integrity. He's shown his true colors. Up to you to continue to deceive yourself or to stop before making things worse.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 36

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/8/2010 9:09:23 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Celeste, you bring up a good point which led me to think of a bigger picture.

So often we read/hear the lament of the aftermath drama of relationships. One party talking about how terrible the other was and that they never saw, whatever the main issue is, coming. I sit back and think to myself, "Bullshit!, there is no way this person could have missed the writing on the wall, aka red flags, that the other person was really not who they thought."

Everything I have learned about human beings is that the signs are ALMOST always there. The problem is that we see the person as WE WANT them to be. Not as they really are. We have an attraction, see some qualities we find desirable, and project some qualities we want, but they do not necessarily have, and tend to ignore/mentally block out/make excuses for, the qualities that we do not want/find desirable.

The unfortunate part of the above, is that sooner or later, reality shines it's light of truth on all of it. We either decide we can live with the reality, perhaps even realize that the reality is better, but all too often, are shocked and repulsed by the reality. Then we place blame everywhere but where it really belongs....on our own expectations.

To me, the stuff the OP is talking about is a big red flag. It indicates some major problems that, given the information here, I would advise someone I love, to think long and hard about. Specifically, lack of honesty. The other stuff I covered in my first reply.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 4/8/2010 9:10:50 AM >

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Post #: 37

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/8/2010 9:30:59 AM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

So far he was afraid of that sit down talk with the woman living with him and he was afraid of that talk with the op. There is a mess and something unknown and lots of lives will be effected if this projected move takes place or not.

Until someone learns to communicate effectively and isn't afraid to face situations or people straight up... I wouldn't give into heart tugs and boxes wouldn't be packed. Unless there is an over-night change, what does the future hold?

I call these crazy making situations with crazy makers. As a dominant bad ass... I would be running so friggin fast with a box of tissue for my heartache, knowing I didn't prolong the agony. Not much good can come with a situation like this with a dominant/anyone that is afraid to talk and holds back vital information, who has a history of allowing things to get this out of hand. White knight? I think not. If he was, he just got slaughtered.

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Post #: 38

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/8/2010 11:27:41 AM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Loveisnotenough;

It certainly is a inter-personal criss-cross and round about isn't it? [Smiles]

Communication is to be free and nothing held back when it is so far into a relationship that it is committed to in the same intensity of a contract and or marriage--although not required but as an example of 'depth' of committed relationships. Secrets need to be disclosed and allow both parties to part ways if these secrets are such to cause it with standards set up prior, during and afterwards.

With the economics the way they are, the other woman is most likely worried about the financial security a partner/roommate/benefactor has produced. A friendship so long and sustaining will often times outlast a new marriage or relationship. I am sure there are studies out there to prove this or that about such thoughts.

There could be a 'word bond/oath/contract' given that does not permit the mental/moral/emotional ethics to leave this woman in total. The damage to friendship is something nobody wishes to witness and for the who, what, wheres and hows.

Outward appearences of health and abilities are deceptive. The medical professionals should be in judge of these things--not the lay person. Cost out of pocket for therapy and products are out in the stars. Inferior health coverage and insurance may also be a factor.

Has there been a thought to seek a mediator or relationship counsel as to put someone neutral in the third chair and see equally the pros and cons with affect you as a couple and you as an individual? There are kink friendly folks out there.

The word temporary means different things to different folks. Heavens, people rarely agree on what real beauty is--let alone what constitutes "temporary."

I agree it would be helpful if your Master would disclose his priorities as well as his view of what is ethical and or moral, as a Master, a friend, a relative and so forth. It would be helpful to you to understand his 'male brain.'

My priorities are laid out on the table per se, before any slave is considered. I'm a full time care giver and provider on premise and unable to practice the lifestyle there. This isn't what floats my boat but, this is a blood relative and as a daughter I made a promise to a parent to take care of the other parent to the best of my abilities. Mine was an ethical choice. Sure, I could walk as to allow my sibling to slam my parent into a mental facility as they can't afford assisted living, take all the control over all things and rob the estate and in summary, rob me of what I was willed/entitled to have. Meanwhile, I just deal with it. I have a slave that has dealt with this too and his own family drama. We're very happy with our own relationships but, not the circumstances we're in. We just 'deal.'

If it is like this sort of drama -- get a kink friendly attorney to guide you on legal affairs and set up some means of an independent legal guardian for the friend, often refered to as a "Guardian et litem." A court officer assigned as an advocate for that individual. There may be a Health advocate that does the same thing but, on a medical bases. This may be established by calling a hospital and or a health insurance company.

Whine a bit. Have a pity party for a couple of hours and end it with having a ice-cream cone or a treat. Then get back to the business of taking care of yourself first, so you can take care of others second.

I do wish you well. Life isn't drama free.

Respectfully proffered,

Lady Hugs

(in reply to loveisnotenough)

Post #: 39

RE: Handling Personal Affairs...Or Not - 4/8/2010 12:19:27 PM

loveisnotenough

Posts: 6
Joined: 4/7/2010
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~FR~

I am hearing a lot of cut and run type advice. I'm afraid that's not my style. While I may slow down and take some time to reevaluate things, I don't find people and relationships quite that expendable. I know we all have our issues and imperfections, even red flags if one were so inclined to interpret them that way, and they are not always dealbreakers. Where this all stand for me, well, it remains to be seen.

We had been up until about two in the morning yesterday discussing the present situation with regard to this woman. When he told me there were things I didn't know that were factors, we were already about dead to the world and it wasn't the right time to get into it. We did, however, get into it last night.  If I were in his place I would agree that I had an obligation in this situation too. I won't get into the details, but his concerns and determination that he has to be involved are valid. I expressed my position on that matter and there is agreement there also, but not yet a game plan. I have discussed some of the questions and doubts that it brings up in me. We discussed it some, but again we had to stop because we were both exhaughsted. That is something that is not shoved aside, but that we will continue to work through.  We are also going to take a few days this week or next to do some evaluating of exactly what the situation is and if we can even make things work at this time or if there has to be a delay.

I make no promises of anything at this point. I am hearing him out, watching very carefully how he handles this and me, and letting that impact my decisions. Life isn't perfect. Drama isn't always quite so avoidable. Yes, he could have told me all this sooner and probably should have. Yes, he should have sat her down long ago. He didn't not just because of not knowing how to deal with it, but because he knows her well and, if there was no plan in place, she would be in a panic of proportions I can't even discuss here. These aren't excuses. This is reality and it has a nasty way of biting us in the ass occasionally. He said himself he is shaken up by the fact that he allowed things to get like this and he has a lot of soul searching to do. He has not shirked one bit of the blame, consequences, or any of it anywhere but to himself. If ever there was a time to blame the whole world to keep from looking bad, this would be it.

I don't like drama and I do my best to avoid it, but, like LadyHugs was saying (good to see you around again btw), it is part of life. Sometimes we bring it on ourselves. Sometimes others close to us bring on us.  Other times it is life being the quirky thing that it is. Drama is not the issue. It is what happens when faced with drama. He is handling it remarkably well. I would have preferred that he not made it exist in the first place, but what's done is done. He is showing a lot of good character along with some flaws that I think he is seeing are more significant and have more negative potential than he ever realized and is working on himself above all else. He is also working to regain my trust and respect, not to mention figuring out how to keep us on track, and fixing the mess he's made with his roommate. He has asked for my input and ideas and I am working with him on it.

All in all, I am not planning on baling based on this alone. I don't care that he makes mistakes, even big ones. We all do.  I am concerned with what he does in the aftermath.  So far, it looks good. That could still change. Time will tell. As much as I don't have a whole lot of time, I can grant him this much for now.

As an aside, no one said anything about moving. That was a specific not put in evidence and may prove to be inaccurate.  I am guessing some people think they know who this is. I'd appreciate folks not trying to guess, as tempting as it may be, and approach this from the sterile position I was seeking. You could be right and you could be wrong. Thinking I am one person when I am another could lead to some really bad advice. Please just treat this neutrally, a little better than a new poster with a problem but still with that same level of knowledge basis...none to little.  I did it this way for a reason. Please don't undo it. Believe me, it would have been a lot simpler to have just posted as usual, but it wasn't the right thing to do for me. Please respect that.

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(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 40

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